Speedo / Tach / Gauges: sequence of rebuilding/mounting instrument panel w/ windshield and interior requirements? (57GH)

[bsrosell]

MAJOR EDIT to primary question SINCE ORIGINAL POST!!
---
hi again guys,
this is a long ways off, but the things I do NOW may be influenced at some point by your answers and advice.

Doing complete body-off restoration of 57 Golden Hawk, so all the glass is out, new interior has been sitting in my basement for 5 years! (yes, had seats done so THEY aren't wrinkled at least). But a very important point I recall reading is that the headliner needs to go in BEFORE and 'under' the windshield. AND, the windshield trim strip stud has to have its retaining nut screwed on BEFORE you install the instrument panel.

Therefore, it seems you have to:
a) have the engine completely done and plumbed (brake lines, gas, oil, tranny cooler),
b) prime and paint the firewall (and probably under car and inside fenders while the shop is at it, or ME).
c) mount at least the core-body (minus doors and fenders and such, ok).
d) completely wire up the instrument panel with it's new vinyl, install the rebuilt gauges and EVERYTHING....
e) place the instrument panel in the body, (after fastening windshield trim nut!!!) and connect all the electrical and oil pressure and turbo pressure lines
EDIT: JUST REALIZED, can't fasten the windshield trim nut UNTIL the windshield is in, so do you have to have the headliner and windshield installed before you can even "partially" install the instrument panel?

QUESTION:
1) can you leave the instrument panel "loose" while partially connected? SO I CAN STILL GET AT THAT TRIM NUT LATER? I'm thinking with the oil pressure piping and supercharger line, might need to have it bolted down before connecting these up. BUT, then I couldn't put the instrument panel in until the headliner is done and windshield (and back window) are in; basically, until car has been to the body shop and painted!

What am I missing here?


Bottomline, can you put the instrument panel in partially so you can still get at that windshield trim strip stud LATER, or do you have to wait and put the panel in after the upholstery and windshield (and trim) are installed?

Would LIKE to actually START THE CAR for the first time as soon as I can; (no fenders or steering or doors or trunk or hood or rocker panels. But after I got the instruments all wired in /plumbed up). Could still work on leveling the body on the frame even. And then obviously it all would get masked off for the rest of the body work after another year or two or three of adding back in the steering and doors and fenders and hood and deck-lid, prior to the REAL paint job somewhere. (NOT me).

The motivation and planning ahead here, is to get my engine started as soon as possible, since it has already been a couple years since I got it put back together, and a year since I mounted it on the chassis....

But, if I can't behind the panel to that windshield trim stud WITH the instrument panel tightened to the firewall first, I don't see any way to even start the engine, mount the steering column, etc... let alone DRIVE, the car before the upholstery (headliner at least) and windshield are installed. I must be missing something here, I hope??

Thanks!!
Barry

[studegary]

It sounds like you have things under control due to your thinking things out before doing. Many years ago my 1957 Golden Hawk looked about like your pictures. Yes, it did get finished. My best to you on your project. When it gets to putting body panels on and painting, you will notice big changes in rapid order.

[bsrosell]

Thanks Gary! Hope springs eternal! :-) (oh, to back up five years or so when my boys were home and could have helped lift and hold and maneuver things; ( have FOUR kids in college now plus my wife getting PhD. Good thing most of the 'money spending/parts gathering" phase is over. Maybe fortunate it IS taking so long; those five will all be out of school by the time I have to mortgage the house again and pay the body shop for the paint jobs :-))

[Jerry Forrester]

(after fastening windshield trim nut!!!)

What's a windshield trim nut?

[bsrosell]

What's a windshield trim nut?

Hi Jerry,
I ONLY know about this from reading warnings from folks here... So I MAY be getting the details wrong (and have my chrome/SS trim packed away so can't look). On the 57 Golden Hawk (not sure which other models), there is both chrome and stainless trim surrounding the windshield. The lower piece, running along the cowl (can't remember if SS or chrome), I believe has three(?) threaded studs as I recall, which stick through the firewall and are held in place with nuts and washers. There are several posts I've seen with guys cursing their inability to get AT the stud to put the nut on and tighten it up because the instrument panel is in the way. My takeaway was the advice "always attach this nut before putting the instrument panel in". Which as I write this, reminds me that is part of my original question; I better go back and edit my post! Since you HAVE to put the windshield in before putting the TRIM around it, and you have to have the headliner in before you put the windshield in, does that mean you can't put the instrument panel in until you have both the headliner and windshield in?? Sigh. Glad you posted the question. :-)

[StudeRich]

No, the Windshield, Belt Mouldings (<Chromed Castings below the W/S) and Headliner being IN or Out has no effect on the Dash.

However you ARE correct about the Headliner should go in before the Windshield.

Also the Stainless Trim in the Windshield Rubber goes in before installing the Glass to the Body.
It is NOT a lot of Fun, but the Belt Moulding Stud Nuts are accessible behind the Wiper Driver Arms.

You could always mask those Mouldings for Paint if you want to make it easier to install them before the Dash, as long as there is enough Paint under them to prevent rust.

[bsrosell]

Hey Rich, that is the best news I've heard all day! :-) Thanks! I obviously misinterpreted pieces of some posts.
I plan to hire a guy (who comes to your house!) to bead-blast everything at some point, and give it a couple of coats of PPG DP primer, so your masking idea could work. Shows how long since I pulled that windshield with a big rock-size hole in the middle, I pulled all the trim and mouldings before prying the glass out, so lots of learning to do on re-assembly of that. ALL the weatherstripping and such gives me angst; I've joked I need to buy an identical car to sit outside and go look at step by step, then re-sell when mine is complete. ;-) (any complete but rusted out 57 Golden Hawks sitting around the Twin Cities reasonably priced? :-)
Thanks again Rich! You have been such a wealth of information over the years, I greatly appreciate it.

[swvalcon]

Berry I would leave the dash out and all the interior until after paint. Your body guy can just mask the window opening from the inside and same on door jams. That way you get a good layer of paint under the window rubbers and door openings. If your using base clear that is where you can get peeling of the clear coat if you mask next to the chrome.You do have to be careful putting it back together and use masking tape over the paint where you think you could mark the paint. The chrome you are talking about under the windshield you can use the nuts to hold them on or use the right size barrel nuts that just push in and they will hold the chrome.

[Jerry Forrester]

or use the right size barrel nuts that just push in and they will hold the chrome.

When did Studebaker change over to the barrel nuts. I'm thinking all the GT's had them, but not sure. Was it before '62?
It really doesn't matter.
Studebaker International or Steven Allen's should have them.
Whether you use the nuts under the cowl or the barrel nuts, make sure you're not stingy with the strip calk at every fastener.

[doofus]

Barry, at this point i would "Ground Hop" the motor. install the rad. an temporary wiring,oil press and temperature gauge and a can of gas. i have a small temporary dash i hang on projects,hook up wires and fuel and go. the starter solenoid is mounted to the back of the panel. remember a new cam and lifters needs a breakin cycle, 1500 to 2000 rpm for 20 min to establish a wear pattern. now you can hear the Beast Rumble.

[bsrosell]

thanks guys: doofus; may do that depending on 'things'. I think I have your(?) post on break-in procedure printed out and in first page of shop manual. :-)

Jerry & Swvalcon; I've heard guys talking about barrel nuts on here; I'm not familiar with them (probably simply not by the correct term); imagine they are push on retainer clips of some type? Regardless, would they be interchangeable with the original nuts (I can't even remember if the 'studs' are originally threaded or if the nuts self-thread; all packed away).

AND, if that windshield trim stud is so hard to get at, how does the barrel nut improve the situation vs a regular nut? (just that you don't have to get it 'started and screw it on"?).

Lastly, thanks for the reminder about caulking all those fastener locations. (applies all over the car I guess, hadn't thought THAT far ahead yet.) Hopefully I remember when the time comes; only makes sense but wouldn't be the first time I got something together and then say "oh shoot". ;-)

[swvalcon]

Berry the barrel nut is just a push in clip that you put in the hole on the body and then you can just push the molding on and it grabs the stud and holds it on. If you ever need to remove the molding you just need to gently pry it back off and the barrel clip will let the stud slide back out. Sold in a lot of different sizes by auto body clip suppliers. Just Google it as Barrel nut and you will see what I'am talking about. Would make it easy if down the road somewhere you need to remove the molding you wouldn't need to find a way to get up under the dash and remove the nuts.

[Charlie D]

This is how I jury-rigged my engine for cam break-in.

Bsrosell,

I just want to share with you how I got my engine ready for the cam break-in. I did not want to wait until after I was ready to sit the body back on the chassis as I knew it would be years away. I built a platform to temporarily hold the battery and gas. I installed the starter solenoid and the ignition switch. I put a gas can on it that gravity fed the fuel pump. An oil pressure gauge was installed. I primed the oil with a battery operated drill set in reverse until I saw it had oil pressure. I started the engine without the radiator for about 10-15 seconds just to make sure it ran.

I hooked up the radiator and filled with coolant and hooked up the exhaust. It sounds like doofus has supplied you information for the actual cam break-in itself. The procedure I used was 1,500-2,000 rpm for about 12 minutes and 2,500-3,000 rpm for another 10 for a total of 22 minutes. I did not have a tachometer so I was just guessing. This is my one and only cam break-in so go with advice from someone more experienced. I am just relaying how I did it.

I know it was one of the more adventurous 22 minutes of my lifetime. Oil started flowing slowing down the back of the block and I was wiping it with a rag and trying to trace down the source. I kept a close eye on the oil pressure which was registering 40psi. The oil was coming from the partial flow canister. I would later discover, with help from this forum, that I did not have a restrictor hole in the line going to the oil filter and it was forcing oil up through the lid. The tranny fill hole was smoking as the transmission fluid heated up. The radiator, was smoking as the engine heated up. It was anything but a nice, smooth cam break-in.

After what seemed like an eternity the 22 minutes were up and now the radiator was overflowing coolant. I unhooked the bailing wire from the bell crank to let the engine go back down to idle and the pressure gauge went to 0!!. I was shocked and shut it down. That’s when I found out about the restrictor for the oil filter line.

The next day I drained the break-in oil and it was black. I also took the valve covers off and re-torqued the head bolts. I am glad I did. In my particular case with my particular engine several of the head bolts tightened down another ½ to 1 full turns to get to the torque I was shooting for. Maybe this will help you in some way. I have been helped so many times by posters on this forum.

Charlie D.

[Jeff_H]

When did Studebaker change over to the barrel nuts. I'm thinking all the GT's had them, but not sure. Was it before '62?

I forget for sure, but I pulled that cowl trim off either a '60 or '61 hawk and it had those barrel nuts on it. Discovered AFTER I pulled out the dash so I could get at the C washers and nuts I expected to find under there, ha. Could have saved myself A LOT of time at the junk yard that day.

[bezhawk]

Berry the barrel nut is just a push in clip that you put in the hole on the body and then you can just push the molding on and it grabs the stud and holds it on. If you ever need to remove the molding you just need to gently pry it back off and the barrel clip will let the stud slide back out. Sold in a lot of different sizes by auto body clip suppliers. Just Google it as Barrel nut and you will see what I'am talking about. Would make it easy if down the road somewhere you need to remove the molding you wouldn't need to find a way to get up under the dash and remove the nuts.

'
That would only work if the holes for the studs on the trim were just slightly larger than the studs. HOWEVER, they are 1/2" holes, and take a very special barrel nut that Aveco doesn't carry! The barrel nut allows for slight misalignment, and the nut underneath holds it from popping out of the barrel clip.