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Thread: Top 10 collector cars for 2019?

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    President Member ddub's Avatar
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    Top 10 collector cars for 2019?

    Haggerty had an article today with the above title. Here is a link: https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid..._9_HagertyNews

    I guess I am not in the car hobby. Nothing on the list interests me. I think I am in the Studebaker hobby (required Studebaker content).
    Don Wilson, Centralia, WA

    40 Champion 4 door*
    50 Champion 2 door*
    53 Commander K Auto*
    53 Commander K overdrive*
    55 President Speedster
    62 GT 4Speed*
    63 Avanti R1
    64 Champ 1/2 ton

    * Formerly owned

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    The only one I would even consider is the Buick, 'cause Buick was my car before Studebaker caught my attention. The only way I would accept any of the others is for quick resale!- Jim

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    Golden Hawk Member Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
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    I must be getting old, but with the exception of the 70s BMW, they all seem like interesting used cars to me....not collector cars.
    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

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    I had to catch myself lately. I've been busting on all the shows that are still drooling over the 70s Chevelles, Novas, Fastback Mustangs, etc. till I realized that the guys building the cars are of the generation following me. It inspired me to think of it that way cuz its not that different from when we were younger. We loved and hot rodded the cars that our parents were glad to throw away. I'm now seeing the latest fads in a new light. Not that I'm as infatuated with them as the young guns are, but I can understand why they are in love with these cars. Now we're moving into the next generation from them. These are the cars they lusted after, but could not afford. Now they are coming into thier own and looking for the cars of thier youth. The only one on the list I'm not too crazy about is the MR2. I never liked them just cuz they were soooo small. All the others are pretty cool. Even the big wagon. There's a local guy who has one which is really nice, low and loud. Dare to be different isn't just for Studebakers any more.
    sals54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp View Post
    I must be getting old, but with the exception of the 70s BMW, they all seem like interesting used cars to me....not collector cars.
    Same here, The BMW and I'd add the Boxter, but the rest .....so much forgettable bleah.
    But then I recognize that my Studes don't even register as the least blip on this generations scale of desirability.
    And I'm fine with that.

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    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Here I thought they would supply a list of 1994 cars that not qualify for antique plates, such as the first Neons!!

    Craig

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    Silver Hawk Member JRoberts's Avatar
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    Not much on this list that I would be interested in even if I had the money. The Subaru WRX/STI would be an exception. If I made such a list for me personally it would include a BMW 2002 tii, an original Mini Cooper (not the new BMW mini), a Saab Monte Carlo, a Javelin/AMX, a pre-1968 VW van (the more windows the better) and a 1941 Studebaker Champion. Naturally there are more, but this is just the beginning of my automotive fantasies.
    Joe Roberts
    '61 R1 Champ
    '65 Cruiser
    Eastern North Carolina Chapter

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    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRoberts View Post
    a pre-1968 VW van (the more windows the better)
    The more windows, the more $$$$ they cost!! https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...DOW-BUS-109474

    Craig

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    President Member E. Davis's Avatar
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    How can these be collector cars ? I thought age and style had something to do with collector value . Don't see either in any of these. Just getting old and senile I guess.

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    What a sad list. Not much of a car guy wrote this garbage.

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    The article is "2019 Bull Market List: 10 best collector cars to buy this year". Per Larry Webster, editor for Hagerty's newsletter/ magazine, "This is our second annual assessment of cars we think are good buys right now".

    This article is all about numbers.

    Larry goes on to say in his 'Driving Passion' (Editor's Note) of that issue, "Among some members of our editorial staff who produce the magazine, however, there is a concern that our cover story is too focused on the numbers. The point of our hobby- they point out to me any chance they get- is, after all, the joy of cars and the personal connections they foster. How do you put a price on that?" There's more to his "Editor's Note', but thought those comments might be of interest for this topic.

    They even go on to say in the captioned article, "Is our Bull Market List just a lot of bull? To be honest, we don't know, as we're only in our second year of doing it..." They go on to show that the predictions for the nine vehicles they chose last year, did all go up in value (by various percentages).

    I also question how some of the cars might really be labeled as "collector cars", but just saw the article as their staff picking cars that they believe will go up in value.

    Of interest, in the same issue is an article by Colin Cramer where he revisits a 1972 issue of Esquire that contained an article called "Instant Classics" that tried to predict cars that would increase in value. In Cramer's follow up he includes the return on investments on several of the cars, including the 1957 Golden Hawk, 1963 Avanti and 1953 Commander from 1972 to 2018. He says, ".. the Ferrari 250GT Tdf and the Mercedes 300SL were great investments, but the Pontiac GTOs and Studebaker Golden Hawks weren't too shabby, either."
    -Matt

    1963 GT Hawk
    1960 Metropolitan Convertible
    1972 AMC Javelin/ AMX
    1956 Cushman Eagle

  12. #12
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    The guys at Hagerty may be car guys but they do not seem to be "old American car guys". Their latest magazine has lots of foreign and newer cars in it.

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    Speedster Member voxnut's Avatar
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    I'm always a little perplexed when something like this is published and folks decry it. While none of the cars on the list are ones that I'd cross the street to look twice at, I totally understand it. Car collecting (and I submit that if you have an obsolete car that you own for pleasure rather than strictly transportation, it by default is a collector car) is largely a generational thing. A specific era might span a couple generations depending on the environment folks were around - what their first used car was, or if they grew up in an old car family. But when guys don't relate to why a younger person would want an 80's or 90's car, I have to ask them why they don't collect stock Model Ts, or REO Speedwagons, or other brass era vehicles? I know usability might be one answer, but the other is probably that you think they are neat on some level, but not the object of your dreams.

    I've seen other articles that basically say that interest in 1946-59 era cars is rapidly declining, which makes sense. Most younger folks have never had these cars on their everyday radar, so they can't relate to them. As with all eras, I think there will always be people interested in them, but just not at a 1:1 replacement ratio after folks either age out or head to the big grease rack in the sky.

    I always wonder how much longer there will be any sizable interest in old cars. Is your average 16 year old going to want anything automotive when they are 50?

    The times they are a changin'...
    Last edited by voxnut; 01-11-2019 at 02:47 PM.
    Dean Seavers
    Sacramento, CA

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    Quote Originally Posted by fastjohnll View Post
    The guys at Hagerty may be car guys but they do not seem to be "old American car guys". Their latest magazine has lots of foreign and newer cars in it.
    This is an interesting observation, but we need to remember what was going on in the late 70s and 80s. The import car scene was running rings around the "old American" cars. That means that kids of that era, are now in their 40s. Does anyone remember the impact of the Honda Accord and the Toyota Corolla in the 70s and 80s? They were the cars that most folks were buying and passing on to their kids. If the kids are driving those cars, then that is what they're going to remember fondly from their youth. Add to that, the performance versions of those cars, or the upgrades, i.e. the BMWs, etc., those are what will stoke the fire of desire in them now.
    A friend of my son's is big into cars right now. But he drives an 80-something Toyota Supra. He loves that car and hangs out with the car crowd of younger guys who go to all the impromptu car meets that the younger crowd do these days. Around here they call them "Vape Meets". They are organized on the fly via smart phone and social media on the night and hour of the event. You won't find them in your printed car show flyer. But these young guys are as into cars as we are. Just in a different manner and via different means. If you were to go to one of these meets with your Studebaker, you'd be as accepted as anyone else. That's just how they are. It's awesome. Lamenting the "good ole days" is not going to bring them back and will not engender sympathy from these young guys either. They're too busy having fun with their cars. Hagerty is just catering to the next generation of car guys. It won't be long till they're the ones spending $50,000 dollars on a Toyota Celica at Barrett Jackson while the Muscle cars go unsold.
    Last edited by sals54; 01-12-2019 at 12:49 AM.
    sals54

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    Speedster Member voxnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sals54 View Post
    This is an interesting observation, but we need to remember what was going on in the late 70s and 80s. The import car scene was running rings around the "old American" cars. That means that kids of that era, who are now in their 40s. Does anyone remember the impact of the Honda Accord and the Toyota Corolla in the 70s and 80s? They were the cars that most folks were buying and passing on to their kids. If the kids are driving those cars, then that is what they're going to remember fondly from their youth. Add to that, the performance versions of those cars, or the upgrades, i.e. the BMWs, etc., those are what will stoke the fire of desire in them now.
    A friend of my son's is big into cars right now. But he drives an 80-something Toyota Supra. He loves that car and hangs out with the car crowd of younger guys who go to all the impromptu car meets that the younger crowd do these days. Around here they call them "Vape Meets". They are organized on the fly via smart phone and social media on the night and hour of the event. You won't find them in your printed car show flyer. But these young guys are as into cars as we are. Just in a different manner and via different means. If you were to go to one of these meets with your Studebaker, you'd be as accepted as anyone else. That's just how they are. It's awesome. Lamenting the "good ole days" is not going to bring them back and will not engender sympathy from these young guys either. They're too busy having fun with their cars. Hagerty is just catering to the next generation of car guys. It won't be long till they're the ones spending $50,000 dollars on a Toyota Celica at Barrett Jackson while the Muscle cars go unsold.
    Yes. Exactly.
    Dean Seavers
    Sacramento, CA

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    The list appeals to a different part of the hobby than many of us belong to. To me, a hobby vehicle is one I can use for fun, work on myself with with pleasure, and keep a very long time. I do not buy them or keep them so that I can sell them at a profit a few years later, nor do I want to take them to a dealer for an oil change. If I had any of those cars, they would be my daily driver -- in fact most of them are newer than my daily driver.

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    Except for those cars which are so rare that they rarely come to market (Duesey SJ, Mercedes 300SL, for example), the cars which bring big bucks are the ones which 16 year olds drooled over and now, their children independent, their fortunes made, retirement at hand, and their mental and physical health still viable, they can afford.

    So...the big dollar buyers are going to be people born largely sixty or seventy years ago.

    Sure there are exceptions: The neurosurgeon who is still in his fifties or inherited money, or made a ton in the stock market. And a few speculators who are younger.

    But, mostly, it's folks who can finally blow a wad of money on a teenage dream car.

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    President Member Kurt's Avatar
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    Collector cars are cars that people remember when they were young and now they want something to remind them of that time. At 52 I’m a “younger” Studebaker nut. I caught my bug from my late Grandfather. To me the list was interesting,because it shows times are changing. The Fox body mustang on the list is a car I would like to have. When I was 21 I tried to buy a 1987 GT. I thought it was too much money and my new wife thought it not to be very practical. I have said that “someday” I would have one. Someday is getting close..... Just have to find one that isn’t t all modded up.
    1962 Champ

    51 Commander 4 door

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    IIRC, the last two vehicles that I had on eBay were a '59 Studebaker restomod pickup and a 1986? Honda Prelude SH. The Studebaker had little interest and I sold it at a large loss. The Honda had 12 times the interest and I sold it at a small profit.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt View Post
    Collector cars are cars that people remember when they were young and now they want something to remind them of that time. At 52 I’m a “younger” Studebaker nut. I caught my bug from my late Grandfather. To me the list was interesting,because it shows times are changing. The Fox body mustang on the list is a car I would like to have. When I was 21 I tried to buy a 1987 GT. I thought it was too much money and my new wife thought it not to be very practical. I have said that “someday” I would have one. Someday is getting close..... Just have to find one that isn’t t all modded up.
    Kurt.. when you're ready for that Mustang, give me a call. We have them here in spades. Rust free, and while some are modded, most are very near stock. Some are in terrific shape. I'm currently looking for a Fox body Mustang now. The choice is to be determined by which model. The one I would choose would be an 89 or 90 GT Convert 5 speed. But, from what I've been studying, the car of choice from the era was the LX 5.0. So... would the "collector" be looking for the LX, or would they go for the upgrade that they could not afford back then, that being the GT. Or..... go for the SVT or Saleen or SVO ? ? ? Trouble is, ya never know which one is going to be the most collectible till the prices rise.
    sals54

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    President Member Kurt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sals54 View Post
    Kurt.. when you're ready for that Mustang, give me a call. We have them here in spades. Rust free, and while some are modded, most are very near stock. Some are in terrific shape. I'm currently looking for a Fox body Mustang now. The choice is to be determined by which model. The one I would choose would be an 89 or 90 GT Convert 5 speed. But, from what I've been studying, the car of choice from the era was the LX 5.0. So... would the "collector" be looking for the LX, or would they go for the upgrade that they could not afford back then, that being the GT. Or..... go for the SVT or Saleen or SVO ? ? ? Trouble is, ya never know which one is going to be the most collectible till the prices rise.
    The car I almost bought actually wasn’t a GT, it was a blue 87 LX 5.0 5 speed. They were faster than the GT back in the day. My second choice is a 86-87 Buick GN.My best friend had one of those and he still has it.
    1962 Champ

    51 Commander 4 door

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    The lesson to take away from these fluff pieces is to let the trendy types chase these cars with their stupid money. While they're not looking, seek out the uncool, unpopular collector cars that are great values in terms of model and condition then acquire them to simply enjoy.

    Should be make a list of the uncool, unpopular cars that are great collector car values for those who can appreciate them?

    Steve

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    Sal,
    For a customer, a number of years ago, I built up and heavily modified a 1983 Mercury Capri RS. WIth the nose lowered appreciably, it looked real sleek like an Avanti not so much having the glass just slapped on. I did it before all the Edelbrock etc. add on parts were available. EG: Doug Nash 5 speed, McLeod hydraulic clutch, Paxton Blower, custom built 16" wheels before they were popular, Thunderbird K-member with 5 lug hubs and a cut down 1972 Colony Park Wagon 9" rear with 12" drums to match. With a full mostly concealed cage for stiffness, it was a real sleeper. Mainly it was NOT a Fox Mustang, but something very different. I'll bet out your way one could be found real cheap as they were never considered collectables.
    Keep us posted.
    Bill

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    Bill, That build sounds awesome. I like the Mercs of that era specifically cuz they were not Mustangs. That one must have been great fun to drive.
    sals54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt View Post
    The car I almost bought actually wasn’t a GT, it was a blue 87 LX 5.0 5 speed. They were faster than the GT back in the day. My second choice is a 86-87 Buick GN.My best friend had one of those and he still has it.
    That is strange. I have two friends, within seven miles of me, that bought new GNs and they both still have them. One with a lot of miles and the other that has few miles and has been babied and shown its whole "life".
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

  26. #26
    President Member WinM1895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzard View Post
    For a customer, a number of years ago, I built up and heavily modified a 1983 Mercury Capri RS. WIth the nose lowered appreciably, it looked real sleek like an Avanti not so much having the glass just slapped on. I did it before all the Edelbrock etc. add on parts were available. EG: Doug Nash 5 speed, McLeod hydraulic clutch, Paxton Blower, custom built 16" wheels before they were popular, Thunderbird K-member with 5 lug hubs and a cut down 1972 Colony Park Wagon 9" rear with 12" drums to match. With a full mostly concealed cage for stiffness, it was a real sleeper.

    Mainly it was NOT a Fox Mustang, but something very different.
    1979/86 Capri is basically a "rebadged" Fox bodied Mustang.

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    It's of little interest to me the collectable gaggle of tripe presented in this article. It just goes to show the direction the hobby is going. The beauty of design, character and uniqueness used to be the Hallmark of a collectable. I see none of these attributes in any of these vehicles. As someone else put it they look like what you'd see on a used car lot today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.J. lavallee View Post
    It's of little interest to me the collectable gaggle of tripe presented in this article. It just goes to show the direction the hobby is going. The beauty of design, character and uniqueness used to be the Hallmark of a collectable. I see none of these attributes in any of these vehicles. As someone else put it they look like what you'd see on a used car lot today.
    What most of us consider to be collectable, were what we saw on used car lots in the 1950s-1960s.
    Gary L.
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    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

  29. #29
    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by studegary View Post
    That is strange. I have two friends, within seven miles of me, that bought new GNs and they both still have them. One with a lot of miles and the other that has few miles and has been babied and shown its whole "life".
    There are more than a few Buick Grand Nationals that have been stored away with less that 100 miles on them; especially the 1987 GNX's. They got appreciated by collectors almost from new, as did 1978 Corvette Pace Cars.

    Craig

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8E45E View Post
    There are more than a few Buick Grand Nationals that have been stored away with less that 100 miles on them; especially the 1987 GNX's. They got appreciated by collectors almost from new, as did 1978 Corvette Pace Cars.

    Craig
    I worked with a lady that bought a new 1978 Corvette Pace Car and used it as her everyday and only car, including going to work in the snow, until the late 1980s when she and the car retired to Florida. She died not long after. I do not know what happened to the car.
    Gary L.
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    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

  31. #31
    Speedster Member daytonadave's Avatar
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    Haggerty left out 1985+ Dodge Shelby turbo cars. I still have the Hot Rod Mag testing an Omni GLHS against Mustang GT350 beating it.
    shelby.jpg
    My 85 Dodge turbo and Yamaha Turbo Bike (during the 55mph legal speed limit).


    1987.jpg

  32. #32
    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by studegary View Post
    I worked with a lady that bought a new 1978 Corvette Pace Car and used it as her everyday and only car, including going to work in the snow, until the late 1980s when she and the car retired to Florida. She died not long after. I do not know what happened to the car.
    I bet its probably restored by now.

    Here are some 1978 Corvettes where some have less than 100 miles on the odometer: https://www.hemmings.com/cars-for-sa.../corvette/1978

    How many other 40+ year old production cars (perhaps with the exception of the 1976 Eldorado convertible) can you name where one can 'pick and choose' an example with less than 100 miles on it??

    Craig

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