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Thread: Trans swap to 700R4

  1. #1
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    Trans swap to 700R4

    Have 63 Avanti, years back I purchased an adapter (not Meyers, didn't know better then) to install 700R4 in place of BW. Because of things that happened beyond my control I am just getting around to conversion.No install instructions came with kit. Adapter install went fine, having trouble getting correct stater. So, looking for a starter that others have used and also what other problems might occur. Ford starter that Meyers used does not work.What C/L to C/L measurement on drive line did you come up with. Hate to throw more money at something that I already have, like getting another kit from Meyer to use, I know that this one can work, so just asking for a little help from others that are familiar with this conversion. Thanks in advance
    Richard
    63 Avanti
    61 Lark

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    Rich, Measure the diameter of the gear on the starter. It will probably be a 9 or 11 tooth 1.150" gear. Stude used a 10 tooth 1.000" gear and the ones that come on most starters will clash about .050".

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    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    I just finished this same project. What do you mean by "Ford starter doesn't work"? It doesn't mount up, doesn't engage...what? What starter are you using? What bore size does it fit ?

    What do you mean by "What C/L to C/L measurement on drive line did you come up with." ?

    I used a Ford 5.0 starter, with the GM 168 tooth flexplate. I made the adapter for the flexplate to crank and the mid plate to adapt GM trans bellhousing to engine. I also added engine mounts to the mid plate to replace the stock one that goes away with the stock bellhousing. I also made a cross member to replace the stock rear engine mount member which is removed to fit the GM trans.

    Even with GM's 200lb lighter engine they never expected the trans to carry the weight of the engine when only using front engine mounts. When using front mounts they always used a bellhousing mount to carry the engines weight.

    I drilled a single hole in the "wing" to bolt the trans extension housing mount to and used the GM mount. I also removed the flange from the front of the "wing" in the trans area for clearance and so I could remove the trans pan without removing the "wing".
    Last edited by bensherb; 01-01-2019 at 10:06 PM.

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    President Member BobWaitz's Avatar
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    I think each of the adapters use different starters. Mine (from Frank van Doorn) uses a Ford Bronco starter. I know others use a Jeep starter. Can you remember who made the kit?

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    Hey gents I'm Richard's grandson, hes having some PC issues at the moment and asked me to chime in till he gets it resolved.

    Hes using a steel tech adaptor, he tried a ford v6 starter like what Myers kit calls for and also a jeep cj5 4.2 AMC one which we found referenced in a old thread on one of the forums. The ford one was completely wrong I remember him saying and with the AMC starter the pinion touched the ring gear when mounted.

    As far as c/l to c/l measurement I think hes referring to Drive line center of front u joint to rear center. I could be wrong.

    Thanks gents for chiming in.

    Josh

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    President Member 5brown1's Avatar
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    There are shim kits available to adjust the starter to ring gear distance. You could also make shims.
    Last edited by 5brown1; 01-02-2019 at 08:20 AM.

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    Why not ask Dave Levesque...

    https://www.facebook.com/david.levesque.395
    64 GT Hawk (K7)
    1970 Avanti (R3)

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    Starter....does not mount up correctly, used one from Ford Ranger, Bronco 2.9 L V6 ( Meyers kit uses) also tried starter from Jeep 4.2 L I6 (AMC motor) this one mounts but 9 tooth pinion gear hits flywheel
    Flex plate...... 168 tooth GM unit used on 327-400 big and small blocks, police cars
    CL to CL.....measurement from center of front u joint to center of rear joint

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    Don't know who he is

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    SteelTech Solutions made the kit, I heard that they shut down

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    Quote Originally Posted by navycb View Post
    SteelTech Solutions made the kit, I heard that they shut down
    He may not be making the pieces anymore, but can certainly tell you what you need
    64 GT Hawk (K7)
    1970 Avanti (R3)

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  13. #13
    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by navycb View Post
    Don't know who he is
    He, Dave Levesque, is, or was, Steel tech.

    Is this the adapter plate you used? Few of the bolt holes in this one actually lined up with my engine, and the trans dowel pins fit badly because they're crooked. It has a crudely cut 4" hole for the starter; the mounting stud does lined up, which is why I used the 5.0 Ford one, I did relocate the second bolt a bit though.
    IMG_0762.jpg
    This is the mid plate I made; with engine mounts. The Ford starter is mounted upside down, because it's on the wrong side of the engine. Since these pics, I did drill a 1.25" hole in the plate, opposite the starter, for access to the torque converter bolts. I probably would have with the Steel tech plate too.
    20180512_151950.jpg20180514_182242.jpg20180514_182205.jpg

    C/L to C/L; I guess you mean drive shaft legnth. I believe mine is 55.25" with the Dana 44 axle.

    The Ford 5.0 starter I used is a PMGR (permanent magnet gear reduction) unit. It was inexpensive, $35, and really tiny, but it doesn't seem to retract fast enough, a standard type starter might be better. It works fine but doesn't sound happy for about a second after the engine starts, if I kill the gear box in this one I'll try a standard (no gear reduction) one. I'm hoping it'll all wear in.

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    Through info provided in forum I found out who Dave is, thanks. Found him on Facebook sent a message, now I will see if he answers. The plate you show is the one I have. Before mounting on engine we made sure it fit trans good. Just had to sand out the alignment holes in trans a small amount so pins would fit with ease. Found a couple bolt holes in plate had to be elongated a small amount to line up. Going to use the flex plate provided with kit , 168 tooth plate for Chevy, is it a bolt on or does it require any shims or spacers, right now it looks like a bolt on. Thinking along the lines you did in adding a mid ship mount, too much distance between front and rear mount. C/L measurement is center of front u joint to center of rear joint. What did you do for rear mount on trans, looks like you just have to add a flat plate from frame rail to other rail for mount to attach to. Thank you for all the info, I see that you are just down the road a few miles from me.

  15. #15
    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    There are two different 168 tooth GM flex plates, The late one, '86 up, has a 3" bolt pattern, and the early one '85 back is (I believe) 3 3/8". The bolt pattern of the Stude crank is 3 1/8" and one hole is asymetriclly located, being out of the pattern of the others by 6 degrees. I made this adapter/spacer and redrilled the GM flexplate to fit the Stude.
    20180703_194101.jpg20180703_194114.jpg
    The small diameter "snout" fits the flexplate bore, and the large diameter counter bore fits the crank diameter just as the flywheel did, and the thru bore fits the converter snout. Overall it's 9/16" thick but the actuall spacer value of it is .230". The stock standard flywheel bolts legnths were about 1/16" too long and hit the converter so I ground them down to clear and used new "all metalprevailing torque type" self locking nuts with Locktight threadlocker.

    I'm guessing, if the flexplate came with the adapter plate it probably already has a spacer installed, perhaps welded to it, and has been drilled to fit the Stude crank.

    As I mentioned before I just drilled one hole in the "wing" crossmember for the trans tail mount (I assume the Avanti has the wing) . I did clearance the "wing" for trans clearance and so the trans pan can be removed without removing it.
    20180731_014449.jpg20180514_200801.jpg20180729_185903.jpgSorry, this site turns many of my picks upside down.

    The mount is pretty standard for a '58-'88 GM. Some have one bolt, some two, and some one stud. I used the one bolt version. By the way, the bolts that mount the rubber mount to the trans are 10mm not 3/8", it's very decieving until you try to tighten them.

    Yep, up the road about 125 miles.

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