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Thread: 55 Years later its Black Monday for GM

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    55 Years later its Black Monday for GM

    sad news from Detroit with GM announcing plant closings and personnel layoffs. I hate to see our North American industrial base disappear and the hardships for the workers. Who would have thought when Studebaker announced the closure of the South Bend plant that I would see similar actions at GM 55 years later.

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    Golden Hawk Member BobPalma's Avatar
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    Many parallels with Studebaker's December 1963 South Bend plant closing, not the least of which is the stock price going UP when the announcement was made:

    https://www.freep.com/story/money/pe...fs/2114600002/

    As the owner of a current-model Ford Escape, I can understand the move away from conventional passenger cars, but our Escape gets a consistent 30 MPG+ under all conditions. Abandoning passenger car production because consumers are buying barely 20 MPG big SUVs and trucks seems like a fool's mission; I mean, sooner or later, gas prices are going to go back up. BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    Ayn Rand:
    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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    Golden Hawk Member BobPalma's Avatar
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    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    William Faulkner was right:

    https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...ng/2114067002/

    (Human beings have the uncanny ability to consistently do two things at once: Be short-sighted and refuse to learn from history. ) Such a talent! BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    Ayn Rand:
    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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    Golden Hawk Member BobPalma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtown Commander View Post
    sad news from Detroit with GM announcing plant closings and personnel layoffs. I hate to see our North American industrial base disappear and the hardships for the workers. Who would have thought when Studebaker announced the closure of the South Bend plant that I would see similar actions at GM 55 years later.
    No sweat, George; GM President Mary Barra was paid $22,500,000 last year. Surely she'll be able to figure this out. BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    Ayn Rand:
    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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    One of the things that has changed is the amount of automation and robots used to make todays autos. This greatly reduces manual labor but makes it very difficult to make changes or alter production. When all only one vehicle type is made at a plant and that type isn't selling then the whole plant is obsolete.

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    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobPalma View Post
    No sweat, George; GM President Mary Barra was paid $22,500,000 last year. Surely she'll be able to figure this out. BP
    By closing down the Oshawa plant.

    Craig

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    Speedster Member R_David's Avatar
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    I think this is just a blip, the real bad layoffs for GM happened in 2009 when they laid off 47,000 employees.

    1961 Flamingo Studebaker Hawk

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    Golden Hawk Member BobPalma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtown Commander View Post
    One of the things that has changed is the amount of automation and robots used to make todays autos. This greatly reduces manual labor but makes it very difficult to make changes or alter production. When all only one vehicle type is made at a plant and that type isn't selling then the whole plant is obsolete.
    Your Arlington TX GM assembly plant survived the cuts, George, didn't it? Don't they just build SUVs? BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    Ayn Rand:
    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_David View Post
    I think this is just a blip, the real bad layoffs for GM happened in 2009 when they laid off 47,000 employees.
    GM Unplugged: http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...-plant-closing

    (I won't say the V-word here as mere mention of it automatically locks the thread on this Forum!!)

    Craig

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    Golden Hawk Member jclary's Avatar
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    No surprise to me...but collective bargaining between arrogant management and a group of slackard entitlement preaching thugs proves that flashy promotions, mediocre products, and poor service is never as profitable as a good product at a fair price. I purchased two brand new GM vehicles in 1983 and once I finally unloaded those pieces of crap...I never returned. Oddly enough...when it came to vehicles...I found new roads!

    What I really feel bad about is the assembly line workers, the nearby restaurants, shops and community businesses that will also be affected. Such events go much deeper than the initial numbers announced. These shutdowns reverberate way beyond the walls of any manufacturing facility. Suppliers, truck drivers, grocery stores, schools, family medical practices, churches, and charities will have to scramble to deal with the economic impact.

    The announcement includes the statement "GM is preparing for the industry’s ultimate shift toward ride sharing," but from my observation, there's been tons of GM stuff sharing rides on tow trucks for years!

    Hmnn...I wonder if there's a copyright on the word Avanti??? I wonder if there'll be a newly restructured GM facility headquartered in Hamilton?
    John Clary
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    Clearly the market has moved away from light 4 door sedans, actually I'm not sure it ever was a true market, but a market forced on Americans by the 70's gas lines.
    The big SUV and Pick Up customer is really the old big Roadmaster, and New Yorker customer of today. I think the American customer prefers heavier machines. GM, Ford
    and Chrysler are kind of lucky that the Asians went after the light 4 door market and haven't figured out the full side pick up market yet to make a difference.
    If the Big 3 are looking for a product to fill those light sedan production lines I'd look to fairly prices small pick ups. Also just look at what Jeep is doing with their Wrangler, it truly has become a "classless" car, you can
    go anywhere in it, the Mall, the Country Club, any class, rich, middle class, off the roader, student can drive it any were and be "accepted" it's the Beetle of our time.
    If Studebaker was here today I believe they'd be heavy into the "Transtar" business, and speciality car (Hawk/Avanti) business, like Ford is heading.

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    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    Apparently the Pricey "Muscle Cars": Mustang, Challenger and Camaro are still surviving, along with the Pickups and SUV's.

    It won't be long before ALL of them will be traded in on Used Hyundai Sedan's and New Electrics!

    I will be driving my soon to be, PROPANE Studebaker and laughing all the way to the Bank!
    StudeRich
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    My wife is most comfortable driving smaller cars. Her previous ride was a 2006 Prius.Last spring she wanted to look for a newer vehicle so we cruised all the usual suspects from big three to Japanese to Korean to German. Her choice was a Toyota Corolla which she happily drives.

    During the search, Ford had announced they were exiting the small car business. There was no doubt in my mind why they were doing it. The Toyota's, Honda's etc had many more features for a given price point compared to the big three offerings. At the time I mentioned I now understood why Ford left the business and said I thought GM and FCA would be following soon.

    I don't know how many Corollas would need to be sold to make the same profit as one Silverado but I'll bet it's a fair number.

    ​Bob
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    Bob;

    No doubt Toyota and Honda have really "nailed" it and are the value and target of the class, question is if the market will hold in that class. By the way, The company I'm with is
    demolishing a former GM (Saginaw Gear) plant in Saginaw........got to tell ya in was pretty cold in Saginaw today, I'm sure Bay City was also. If we really knew the net on those Pick Up's
    and SUV's we'd be amazed how and why these company's stayed in the small car business. I'm sure if it wasn't for the fuel averaging they wouldn't have.

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    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jclary View Post
    What I really feel bad about is the assembly line workers, the nearby restaurants, shops and community businesses that will also be affected. Such events go much deeper than the initial numbers announced. These shutdowns reverberate way beyond the walls of any manufacturing facility. Suppliers, truck drivers, grocery stores, schools, family medical practices, churches, and charities will have to scramble to deal with the economic impact.
    That is exactly why the governments in US and Canada bailed them out in 2009~because of the domino effect it would have had on the nation.

    Craig

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    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike cenit View Post
    Clearly the market has moved away from light 4 door sedans, actually I'm not sure it ever was a true market, but a market forced on Americans by the 70's gas lines.
    Oh absolutely it was. Four door sedans were THE bread-and-butter car for decades as company cars for salesmen, taxi drivers, rental cars, etc. In the 1960's, my dad almost always had a low trim level full size four door sedan for a company car.

    Craig

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    President Member Stude Shoo-wop!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StudeRich View Post
    Apparently the Pricey "Muscle Cars": Mustang, Challenger and Camaro are still surviving, along with the Pickups and SUV's.

    It won't be long before ALL of them will be traded in on Used Hyundai Sedan's and New Electrics!

    I will be driving my soon to be, PROPANE Studebaker and laughing all the way to the Bank!
    I agree that what is happening concerning the weathered industrial giant that we all know as GM is to be expected and probably necessary in the long run. However, the phrase PROPANE STUDEBAKER caught my attention like a bee to a flower. Care to shed some light on that subject?
    Jake Kaywell: Shoo-wops and doo-wops galore to the background of some fine Studes. I'm eager and ready to go!

    1962 GT Hawk - completely finished in driveable condition.

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    President Member thunderations's Avatar
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    As I remember, the 2009 GM bailout never got totally repaid. The remaining billions were simply written off and the taxpayers got hoodwinked again. GM said it was hurting their image by being called "Government Motors Corporation" by the general public.
    Now after 9 years to fix their problem with free money, they fail again. Money well spent, huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by 8E45E View Post
    That is exactly why the governments in US and Canada bailed them out in 2009~because of the domino effect it would have had on the nation.

    Craig
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    Mike

    I assume the demolition must be in the complex at M-46 and I-75? I know a lot of folks that worked there at one time

    As far a temps and snow, pretty close to where you are working. Warm here though,as I'm stuck in the house for another week or so. Your point about sustaining the market for small cars is appropriate.

    Bob
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    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderations View Post
    As I remember, the 2009 GM bailout never got totally repaid. The remaining billions were simply written off and the taxpayers got hoodwinked again. GM said it was hurting their image by being called "Government Motors Corporation" by the general public.
    Now after 9 years to fix their problem with free money, they fail again. Money well spent, huh?
    The solution would have been a 10 billion dollar fine for faulty ignition switches.

    Craig

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    Bob

    It's the plant on E Genesee and Cumberland, it may have been part of the old GM "Gun Plant" complex build in 1942, later Saginaw Gear, then Delphi and the past 10 years operated by TRW. I think the plant your talking about is the old Saginaw
    Gear main plant, today that plant is Chinese operated and is called Nextgear, or something like that.

    The plant were working on is about 1 M sf , a tough old bird, it's not real happy coming down, we had hoped to get it down before winter, but as they say, sometimes the plans didn't meet the schedule.

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    As the last senior management survivor of the 1963-1966 era of Studebaker, I believe I can offer some really interesting comparisons between Studebaker of the 60s and GM of today.

    First of all, Studebaker president Byers Burlingame picked December 9 to say Merry Christmas to thousands of employees. GM president Mary Bara must have turned back the clock and issued her Merry Christmas greeting to even more thousands of employees. How original!

    In Canada, Ms Bara decided to close what GM recently claimed its Oshawa plant was its most profitable manufacturing and best quality facility.. Go figure. Of course we know that Byers Burlingame lied through his teeth when he said "we are going to Canada to live, not to die. Yeh, right. Seems to me the higher the level of nome these CEOS earn, the less their empathetic public relations ability declined.

    Are you ready for this? GM in Canada stated today that the steel and aluminum tariffs recently imposed have created significantly further financial difficulties. Since I don't wish to breach SDC's no politics rule on Forum posts, I will not repeat what the perpetrator of this action said in response.

    As you all know now, Studebaker's move to Canada was only an attempt to minimize conti successfully predictngent liabilities created by a very inept management team. Is I not possible that GM also employs similar people who cannot predict consumer preferences. Or just maybe the mighty dollar is more important in closing 5 North American plants while continuing manufacturing operations in a country known for paying employees at a fraction of pay to North American employees.

    At least at Studebaker, in Canada we ceased operations in a season that didn't ruin Christmas, followed by ensuring that all employees found satisfactory employment elsewhere. Is it possible that GM might consider the same?

    In conclusion what has happened today brings back untold memories of my years at Studebaker.

    Stu Chapman

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    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stude Shoo-wop! View Post
    /Cut/However, the phrase PROPANE STUDEBAKER caught my attention like a bee to a flower. Care to shed some light on that subject?
    Ford actually built Ranger Pickups and Crown Vic's in the '80's with Factory straight Propane setups and they ran totally Clean inside AND in the Air.

    These Conversions have been around since the late 1940's and 50's and probably earlier, Many Fleets of Trucks, Buses etc. owned by Corp's. and Municipalities run them and have their own Large Tanks and pumps at their Garages.

    They adapt very well to High Compression as the Octane rating is Higher than Premium Auto. fuel closer to Race Gas and Aircraft Fuel.

    No more worries about the Poor Performance Gasoline with Corn Oil eating the system, and also not harming the Carbon footprint. Oil changes are close to never needed, except maybe as some Detergents wear out in 2 or 3 Years.

    Of course Propane fits better in a Truck due to the size and weight of heavier, larger Tanks, in Rural areas it is ideal because of more Fueling Stations also near RV Parks, RV Dealers etc.

    But many Cars have the Tank over the rear Axle.

    Dual Fuel switchable Kits are available, but straight Propane Injectors work the Best.

    All indoor Commercial Vehicles run on Propane like small Trucks, Forklifts, Generators and other stationary Engines.
    Propane has more BTU's than Natural Gas, so produces more Power and Fuel Mileage.

    I drove a Maxie Van 1981 Ford E-350 Commuter Van for Northrop Corp. (Aircraft Div.) from Hawthorne Calif. to Palmdale and Lancaster, Calif. everyday for about a year and loved it.
    It was one of a Fleet of about 12-14, 12 Passenger Commuter Van Conversions all the same, with 3 Rear mounted Tanks Manifolded together under the floor.

    With only the 400 cid small block V8 engine before they went to the 460, it ran better than GREAT!
    Last edited by StudeRich; 11-26-2018 at 10:47 PM.
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    I always thought that it was strange that a Chevy Volt is a hybrid and a Chevy Bolt is all electric.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

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    The local news interviewed the union officers and they indicated that the Arlington TX plant would be unaffected with the exception that there maybe workers coming from closed plants to work here. Arlington opened in 1954 as an assembly plant and in the mid 90s was one of 3 plants producing Tahoe/Suburban (and the GMC, Cadillac variants). GM indicated that they were going to close 2 of the plants. Janesville and Willow Run were closed and Arlington has been going through expansions to meet the increased demand. With gas under $2 the demand for Arlington plant products is very strong but one wonders what will happen if the market shifts. If the gas price were to dramatically change GM and Ford may find that they don't have a product to offer and nowhere to produce it.

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    Stu;

    Being in manufacturing most of my working years (not auto's) I can tell you there comes a time in most companies when management decides it would rather sell a product
    than manufacture it. Example Buick would rather sell that little crossover they buy from the Chinese and sell, then make it. Somebody in post war years figured out companies may be
    better off being a marketing company than a manufacturing company.

    Studebaker is a prime example, they may have made money with the move to Canada, but it
    would never be enough, there were years where the money they would have to invest in Hamilton just to keep the doors open in their minds would
    be better returned by buying Federal Reserve Notes. Even 55 years ago they talked to VW and/or Toyota about a off shore line of cars.

    It's usually the management that's not true to the founders and management that made a company a success and cause the downfall. A good example, Stu is when you were with Studebaker all these car companies had
    "sales bank"s, these were cars built for inventory and usually stored all over Detroit, sometimes for months and never sold until they were deeply discounted. Car companies liked to tell
    Wall Street these were a ready stock of cars to help dealers sell more, in truth these cars were built for the benefit of management. For years management at these auto companies were paid
    on production, bonuses weren't paid on sales but production, so they would keep making cars and store them is the 'sales bank" and bonus money was paid. It was typical of auto company management "kick
    it down the road", and let the "next guy worry", "I got mine".

    In the end everything has a life even companies, go back to the top 500 companies in 1930 and there is likely not 10 percent still in business, no RCA, no Railway Express, no NY Central, no TWA, no Woolworth, no Packard, and yes no Studebaker.
    We're living through the undoing of General Motors, truth is their so big it may take them 50 years to close their doors, but close the doors they will.

  27. #27
    President Member ddub's Avatar
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    And isn't GM about the age Studebaker was when it left the auto market?
    Don Wilson, Centralia, WA

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    Are they abandoning MANUFACTURING in the USA of these "Sedans" but most likely importing from associated companies in Europe and Asia? It seems odd they would completely abandon this segment of the market.
    '64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-98 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.

  29. #29
    President Member 57pack's Avatar
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    Funny, I was thinking the same thing about the parallels of Studebaker 1963 and GM 2018.
    I remember sitting in front of our old Zenith television that evening watching the news. 55 years later, sitting in front of our newer Samsung, watching GM begin to circle the drain.
    1957 Packard Clipper Country Sedan

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    I'm sure it is political or partly political, every thing these days seem political from Peanuts cartoons to the NFL. The Christmas season announcements seem to be more common than not, this GM
    announcement seems to be their usual pre contract ploy. They'll pull back, maybe 1 or 2 plants, the Canadian Oshawa plant seems in real danger. The one in Detroit is too new, too good and too political,
    Lordstown in Ohio got a bad start right from the begining, it was built for the Vega, enough said.

  31. #31
    Golden Hawk Member BobPalma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Chapman View Post
    As the last senior management survivor of the 1963-1966 era of Studebaker, I believe I can offer some really interesting comparisons between Studebaker of the 60s and GM of today.

    First of all, Studebaker president Byers Burlingame picked December 9 to say Merry Christmas to thousands of employees. GM president Mary Bara must have turned back the clock and issued her Merry Christmas greeting to even more thousands of employees. How original!

    In Canada, Ms Bara decided to close what GM recently claimed its Oshawa plant was its most profitable manufacturing and best quality facility.. Go figure. Of course we know that Byers Burlingame lied through his teeth when he said "we are going to Canada to live, not to die. Yeah, right. Seems to me the higher the level of nome these CEOS earn, the less their empathetic public relations ability declined.

    Are you ready for this? GM in Canada stated today that the steel and aluminum tariffs recently imposed have created significantly further financial difficulties. Since I don't wish to breach SDC's no politics rule on Forum posts, I will not repeat what the perpetrator of this action said in response.

    As you all know now, Studebaker's move to Canada was only an attempt to minimize conti successfully predictngent liabilities created by a very inept management team. Is I not possible that GM also employs similar people who cannot predict consumer preferences. Or just maybe the mighty dollar is more important in closing 5 North American plants while continuing manufacturing operations in a country known for paying employees at a fraction of pay to North American employees.

    At least at Studebaker, in Canada we ceased operations in a season that didn't ruin Christmas, followed by ensuring that all employees found satisfactory employment elsewhere. Is it possible that GM might consider the same?

    In conclusion what has happened today brings back untold memories of my years at Studebaker.

    Stu Chapman
    Your remarks and observations are greatly appreciated, Stu; thanks for tendering them. There is no substitute for having been there; we are fortunate to have your continued input and sharp memory.

    An observation and question: Do you have any idea about how much Byers Burlingame was paid in calendar year 1963? I'd like to run it through an inflation calculator and see how it compares with the obscene $22,500,000 Mary Barra was paid last year.

    (I also appreciate your Post #18, Thunderations; spot-on....in my never so humble opinion, of course.)

    Meanwhile, the sedan market isn't going away. It will simply be served by Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, etc. After all,. how many gazillion Toyota Camrys has the public bought in the last 25 years...and continues buying today? BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    Ayn Rand:
    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

  32. #32
    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobPalma View Post
    Meanwhile, the sedan market isn't going away. It will simply be served by Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, etc. After all,. how many gazillion Toyota Camrys has the public bought in the last 25 years...and continues buying today?
    I don't know about your area, but there are sure a LOT of Mercedes Benz C-class sedans running around here. And BMW 3-series sedans as well.

    Craig

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    Golden Hawk Member BobPalma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8E45E View Post
    I don't know about your area, but there are sure a LOT of Mercedes Benz C-class sedans running around here. And BMW 3-series sedans as well. Craig
    True, Craig. There simply aren't as many BMW and M-B dealerships in central Indiana, so their market penetration here isn't what it might be in your market. BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    Ayn Rand:
    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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    Golden Hawk Member BobPalma's Avatar
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    'Gotta love Quartz' "translation" of the GM announcement:

    https://qz.com/work/1475097/gm-layof...se-translated/

    'Love it! BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    Ayn Rand:
    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

  35. #35
    President Member
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    Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada.
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    Lounsbury's, the Chevrolet- (formerly) Oldsmobile dealer in our city is a large, successful business, and one of the oldest GM dealers in Canada. Very soon after GM discontinued Oldsmobile, Lounsbury's formed a subsidiary company to start a successful BMW and Mini franchise. More recently, Lounsbury's bought and greatly expanded the Volkswagen and Audi dealerships, again with good results. Is it a message when even dealers aren't brand loyal?
    Bill Jarvis

  36. #36
    President Member WinM1895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StudeRich View Post
    Ford actually built Ranger Pickups and Crown Vic's in the '80's with Factory straight Propane setups and they ran totally Clean inside AND in the Air.

    With only the 400 cid small block V8 engine before they went to the 460, it ran better than GREAT!
    In the mid 1980's, Ford offered two different diesels in Rangers, neither sold worth a hoot.

    There's no parts catalog reference for any 1980's/90's FoMoCo vehicle with propane. These would have been aftermarket conversions.

    When the completely new body on frame construction Econoline was introduced in 1975, three engines were available: 300 I-6, 351W, 460 (E250/350 only). 302 reintroduced in 1979 in E100/250.

    1980/82 Econolines were available with the 351M/400, but both were cancelled at the end of the 1982 model run.

    Good riddance, both these engines were turds, the heads were very prone to cracking.
    Quote Originally Posted by sweetolbob
    Ford is exiting the small car market.
    Ford is almost exiting the passenger car market, cancelling the Fiesta, Fusion and Taurus. I wouldn't call the Taurus a small car.

    Ford is retaining the Focus, why I don't know, the Fusion has outsold it since 2006.

    ddub:
    GM founded in 1908 by William C. 'Billy' Durant.
    Last edited by WinM1895; 11-27-2018 at 01:14 PM.

  37. #37
    Golden Hawk Member BobPalma's Avatar
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    Brownsburg, IN, USA.(NW suburban Indianapolis)
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    Well, you learn something new every day. According to GM's verbose official BS in this dispatch, Studebaker didn't close South Bend Assembly in December 1963, they simply "didn't allocate any production to it" in 1964!

    http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...autonews-annow

    Ah, the great Mother Tongue! BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    Ayn Rand:
    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

  38. #38
    Golden Hawk Member
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    Oct 2004
    Location
    Wappingers Falls, New York, USA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobPalma View Post
    True, Craig. There simply aren't as many BMW and M-B dealerships in central Indiana, so their market penetration here isn't what it might be in your market. BP
    Within three miles of our home there are Nissan, Toyota, Mercedes-Benz and Acura dealerships. From three to ten miles there are Mazda, BMW, Jeep, Dodge, Chrysler, Ram, Kia, Hyundai, Genesis, Ford, Chevrolet, Honda, Volvo, Mini, Buick, Cadillac, GMC and perhaps something that did not come to mind now. With that big assortment, I tend to mostly see Honda, M-B, Acura (in that order) followed by Toyota and Hyundai. The only Chevrolet in this neighborhood/area is a Corvette a couple of blocks away

    EDIT: I forgot VW and Subaru.
    Last edited by studegary; 11-28-2018 at 09:19 PM.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

  39. #39
    Golden Hawk Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstude View Post
    Lounsbury's, the Chevrolet- (formerly) Oldsmobile dealer in our city is a large, successful business, and one of the oldest GM dealers in Canada. Very soon after GM discontinued Oldsmobile, Lounsbury's formed a subsidiary company to start a successful BMW and Mini franchise. More recently, Lounsbury's bought and greatly expanded the Volkswagen and Audi dealerships, again with good results. Is it a message when even dealers aren't brand loyal?
    Most of the large dealership organizations own three to 12 brands.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

  40. #40
    President Member
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    Jan 2014
    Location
    marana, Arizona
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    Hasn't automobile design always tried to follow the fashion of the times? The Roaring Twenties, Deco Art, the Space Age and now the Identity and Technology Age? Folks have always been driven to be seen in the latest new products and that most certainly includes the automobile. Bigger is better was the American motto and our vehicles identified us as uniquely American. We can't buy a traditional American family "boat" anymore due to downsizing so the next "big" thing is the SUV. That's what separates us from other society's. We're affluent enough to afford them. Take that the rest of the world!

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