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Thread: We don't need no stinkin' proofreader

  1. #1
    President Member Scott's Avatar
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    We don't need no stinkin' proofreader

    This from a story about the Argentinian sub that sank a year ago and has been found:
    "
    The missing vessel was a German-built diesel-electric TR-1700 class submarine commission in the 1980s. It was refitted between 2008 and 2014, costing around $12."

    The Associated Press contributed to the report. I see examples like this almost every day. I used to be a proofreader and NOTHING like this ought to get by any decent editor before it's made public.
    No wonder the press has a bad reputation for accuracy and so on.

    On the other hand, if this is accurate maybe it explains why it sank. Twelve dollars for a refit doesn't sound like very high quality.
    And then there's the "commission" instead of "commissioned".

    Think of all the people still looking for a job and some bozos get paid for THIS?


    Last edited by Scott; 11-17-2018 at 10:46 AM.
    "Madness...is the exception in individuals, but the rule in groups" - Nietzsche.

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    President Member Scott's Avatar
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    Here's another example from an article I just read about lab grown kidneys going "rogue" and starting to grow brain and other cells (from a British paper):
    "But the findings they have gone “rogue” coldest back the research, with experts saying the fact they behaved in this way indicates the technique used to grow them from stem cells are actually creating other cells."

    Coldest? Technique...are? Maybe in the UK "technique" is a plural. I don't think so.
    Maybe today's not the day I should be reading anything.
    "Madness...is the exception in individuals, but the rule in groups" - Nietzsche.

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    Silver Hawk Member Chris Pile's Avatar
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    This is a problem in all media these days.... The ones that really burn me are the captions on news programs with obvious misspellings. What is truly surprising is that there is spell checking software on many platforms, but people refuse to use it.
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    President Member tsenecal's Avatar
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    I agree. Our daily newspaper is full of misspellings, and words that are used incorrectly. I would think that a quick proof read, would catch most mistakes.

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    Golden Hawk Member DEEPNHOCK's Avatar
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    Oh, give me a brake....
    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

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    And then to really mix things up we have the Queen's English and spelling in Canada which doesn't always coincide with our American friends to the south. (Nice, Jeff!)
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    President Member Scott's Avatar
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    Bill,
    We used to spell catalog, "catalogue" in the states and there are probably some that still do. The double ll (travelling), is also something we used to do and within my lifetime. I think it's only been in the last 20 or so years that double ll's have really fallen from use in the US. I actually still think some words look strange without double consonants. Traveling is one of them. Worshiping without two p's sometimes looks odd to me as well.

    And don't get me started on how things are spelled in Milwaukee.
    "Madness...is the exception in individuals, but the rule in groups" - Nietzsche.

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    Don't worry. I'm, sure somewhere they are working on algorithms that will read our minds – so to speak. Thus we will not even have to respond to..., say, an email or text because we will have the 5 second count down option to respond ourselves or let the “app” do it for us. The app will know our calendar, who we have been conversing with, whether we need gas, or to shop for food etc.. The app will then respond back to a “Can we get together tonight” with a “No, I have too much going on.” And since the public will be convinced that the app ‘knows best” they will try and live up to the apps expectations of ourselves (the tail wags the dog). But, we won’t need to worry about proofreading because the app handles that for us.
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    President Member Scott's Avatar
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    That'll be a hoot when attorneys start using a "contract app".
    Quote Originally Posted by wittsend View Post
    Don't worry. I'm, sure somewhere they are working on algorithms that will read our minds – so to speak. Thus we will not even have to respond to..., say, an email or text because we will have the 5 second count down option to respond ourselves or let the “app” do it for us. The app will know our calendar, who we have been conversing with, whether we need gas, or to shop for food etc.. The app will then respond back to a “Can we get together tonight” with a “No, I have too much going on.” And since the public will be convinced that the app ‘knows best” they will try and live up to the apps expectations of ourselves (the tail wags the dog). But, we won’t need to worry about proofreading because the app handles that for us.
    "Madness...is the exception in individuals, but the rule in groups" - Nietzsche.

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    President Member Jerry Forrester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
    Oh, give me a brake....
    Now THAT is funny!
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    High school journalism taught the importance of punctuation also . For example,
    People say monkeys are funny or.....
    People, say monkeys, are funny.

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    Golden Hawk Member Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbruner View Post
    High school journalism taught the importance of punctuation also . For example,
    People say monkeys are funny or.....
    People, say monkeys, are funny.
    Quote Originally Posted by tsenecal View Post
    I agree. Our daily newspaper is full of misspellings, and words that are used incorrectly. I would think that a quick proof read, would catch most mistakes.
    Looks like a quick proof read didn't catch the misuse of two commas.
    Dick Steinkamp
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    President Member Scott's Avatar
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    You should read "Eats, Shoots & Leaves," by Lynne Truss.
    "Madness...is the exception in individuals, but the rule in groups" - Nietzsche.

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    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    two, too, to
    lose, loose, losing, loosing
    shiny, shinny, shiney
    it's, its
    your, you're, yore
    scrapped, scraped
    there, their, they're
    moot, mute
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    Speedster Member JimK's Avatar
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    I had a high school English teacher that would Fail any written submission (essay or whatever) if there was any misuse of (to, too, two) or (there, their, they're). One learns quickly to get it right, as she was not shy about following through on the threat.
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    Silver Hawk Member JRoberts's Avatar
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    So do need to find an British English- American English translation app or is there already one out there

    I was a history teacher for 31 years and when it came to reading items that were written prior to the U.S. adopting its own form of the English language the students had to stumble around awhile before getting used to the difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    This from a story about the Argentinian sub that sank a year ago and has been found:
    "
    The missing vessel was a German-built diesel-electric TR-1700 class submarine commission in the 1980s. It was refitted between 2008 and 2014, costing around $12."
    No wonder the press has a bad reputation for accuracy and so on.

    On the other hand, if this is accurate maybe it explains why it sank. Twelve dollars for a refit doesn't sound like very high quality.
    And then there's the "commission" instead of "commissioned".

    Think of all the people still looking for a job and some bozos get paid for THIS?


    Probably a botched translation.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimK View Post
    I had a high school English teacher that would Fail any written submission (essay or whatever) if there was any misuse of (to, too, two) or (there, their, they're). One learns quickly to get it right, as she was not shy about following through on the threat.
    Interesting though, when we speak there is no defining these variation of words (to, too and two all sound the same). We need to figure out the context - and in most cases we do. Frankly I never "got it" as a kid. I thought in terms of speech. So, if someone wrote, "I need too tires for my bicycle." My mind comprehended "'I need 2 tires for my bicycle." The correct spelling was completely secondary to understanding what was being stated. The rigidness (or confusion) of the English language and grammer seemed a hindrance to the thought process. Even today my mind moves about 10 times faster than I can type. Getting my thoughts out becomes paramount to proper spelling, punctuation etc..

    I once was criticized by a friend for misusing "capitol" for "capital." Now I know the difference between the two, it was more of a spell check (my failure to proofread) error. They went on to criticize me because I was a “teacher.” But, my field of expertise was not written English. Rather I taught television production where the end result of images and speech allows for creative expression without being burdened by spelling and grammatical rules - the tedium of which my mind becomes overwhelmed with. We all have our gifts and they are all not equal.
    Last edited by wittsend; 11-19-2018 at 05:28 PM.
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    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wittsend View Post
    Interesting though, when we speak there is no defining these variation of words (to, too and two all sound the same). We need to figure out the context - and in most cases we do. Frankly I never "got it" as a kid. I thought in terms of speech. So, if someone wrote, "I need too tires for my bicycle." My mind comprehended "'I need 2 tires for my bicycle." The correct spelling was completely secondary to understanding what was being stated. The rigidness (or confusion) of the English language and grammer seemed a hindrance to the thought process. Even today my mind moves about 10 times faster than I can type. Getting my thoughts out becomes paramount to proper spelling, punctuation etc..

    I once was criticized by a friend for misusing "capitol" for "capital." Now I know the difference between the two, it was more of a spell check (my failure to proofread) error. They went on to criticize me because I was a “teacher.” But, my field of expertise was not written English. Rather I taught television production where the end result of images and speech allows for creative expression without being burdened by spelling and grammatical rules - the tedium of which my mind becomes overwhelmed with. We all have our gifts and they are all not equal.
    True, but can you imagine or empathize with the pain, the gradual grinding down, that comes when one can and does know how to spell, but is constantly exposed to bad spelling, poor grammar, and misused words in all the printed communication? It's like all that education, the pride that came from keeping the nuns with rulers at bay, the satisfaction of winning all the spelling bees, was for naught.

    We all have our gifts, but sometimes those who lack tend to exhaust those who don't. Maybe it will be better when dementia sets in and then nothing has meaning any more.
    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioRoy View Post
    True, but can you imagine or empathize with the pain, the gradual grinding down, that comes when one can and does know how to spell, but is constantly exposed to bad spelling, poor grammar, and misused words in all the printed communication? It's like all that education, the pride that came from keeping the nuns with rulers at bay, the satisfaction of winning all the spelling bees, was for naught.

    We all have our gifts, but sometimes those who lack tend to exhaust those who don't. Maybe it will be better when dementia sets in and then nothing has meaning any more.
    Yes, I can imagine it. This is one of the things that has caused me to drop my subscription to a local paper (Poughkeepsie Journal - oldest paper in NYS) after reading it daily for more than 70 years. Also, after it became mostly a Gannett item, it had less local content and a higher price (almost $600 if prepaid for a year).
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    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Just let this guy read everything to you instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf_TDuhk3No

    Craig

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    President Member 48skyliner's Avatar
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    I was in high school when I first became aware that virtually all reporters in the general press were completely ignorant of anything to do with automobiles or aviation. This was particularly amazing to me here in Seattle, which was then the aviation capitol of the world, and the Seattle Times "aviation editor" was so clueless it was embarrassing.

    Regarding the spelling and grammar, just wait a few more years until all these so-called journalists are replaced by the current illiterate "texting" generation - a literate person will need an interpreter to read a newspaper.
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    Silver Hawk Member Chris Pile's Avatar
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    Seattle, which was then the aviation capitol of the world
    EXCUSE ME? ANY airplane person worth his or her salt knows WICHITA, KANSAS is the AIR CAPITAL of the world. Over 100 aircraft manufacturers have made their home here in the last hundred years. Beechcraft, Cessna, Learjet, and even Airbus employ tens of thousands here in Wichita. 6 out 10 privately owned airplanes flying right now were made HERE in Wichita. Every B-47 ever made was produced HERE - in Wichita. In the last 30 years - every Air Force One was outfitted HERE - in the Air Capital - NOT Seattle. Old time pilots do not speak of Seattle reverently when discussing the pioneers of aircraft, sir. Clyde Cessna, Walter Beech, Bill Lear, Lloyd Stearman, Matty Laird (Swallow aircraft), Al Mooney, etc., did NOT call Seattle home. They came to Wichita.

    One company does NOT make Seattle the aviation capital, sir. Your arrogance offends me, and the facts do NOT back up your statement. Wichita is the undisputed aviation capital, and we have the history to prove it!
    Last edited by Chris Pile; 11-29-2018 at 11:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 48skyliner View Post
    I was in high school when I first became aware that virtually all reporters in the general press were completely ignorant of anything to do with automobiles or aviation. This was particularly amazing to me here in Seattle, which was then the aviation capitol of the world, and the Seattle Times "aviation editor" was so clueless it was embarrassing.

    Regarding the spelling and grammar, just wait a few more years until all these so-called journalists are replaced by the current illiterate "texting" generation - a literate person will need an interpreter to read a newspaper.
    Ben,
    "Newspaper"?? Though I admit to being a journalism major, U of M BTW, and started delivering newspapers when I was in the third grade when my two older brothers took over the largest paper route in the city, ended up working at the newspaper and loving it, today, I'm the only one in our neighborhood who subscribes to the daily paper. 30 years ago we had (2) thriving newspapers in this market. Today only (1) and I hate to say it, but I'd bet that within 10 years time there won't be any newspapers delivered on a daily basis.

    “And were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter." -Thomas Jefferson
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    Quote Originally Posted by dleroux View Post
    Ben,
    "Newspaper"?? Though I admit to being a journalism major, U of M BTW, and started delivering newspapers when I was in the third grade when my two older brothers took over the largest paper route in the city, ended up working at the newspaper and loving it, today, I'm the only one in our neighborhood who subscribes to the daily paper. 30 years ago we had (2) thriving newspapers in this market. Today only (1) and I hate to say it, but I'd bet that within 10 years time there won't be any newspapers delivered on a daily basis.

    “And were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter." -Thomas Jefferson
    I have been reading the local daily paper, the Poughkeepsie Journal (NY's oldest newspaper and one of the oldest in the country) and its predecessor the Poughkeepsie NewYorker for more than 70 years. After it was bought out by Gannett it has gradually gotten smaller, had less local content and the price is up to nearly $600 per year if you pay for the year in advance. This year, I dropped my subscription. Its like a long time habit that is hard to change, but I am making it.
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    I spent 50 years or so getting paid to write stuff, and I usually was told right away when I had used the wrong term or tense or screwed up some other way. So I despair at what I read in the newspaper or hear on the TV these days. Words somehow become popular and cool, even if they are not correct for the context. Here are a couple of my current pet peeves:

    1. Data as a singular: "the data is being sent . . . ". The word data is plural. The singular is datum.

    2. Compose vs comprise: somehow it's become cooler to use the word comprise when the correct term is compose, but they don't have the same meaning. "Those three cars comprise our whole fleet." "Our whole fleet is composed of those three cars."

    3. Exponentially: Another word that has become cool. The word is based on exponent, which indicates the use of an exponential function, like squared (2, 4, 16, etc), cubed, etc. It does not (should not) mean simple steady growth. And BTW, since exponents can also be negative numbers, exponential can also mean similarly rapid shrinkage.

    I've plenty more, but that's enough ranting for one day.

  27. #27
    Golden Hawk Member Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 48skyliner View Post

    Regarding the spelling and grammar, just wait a few more years until all these so-called journalists are replaced by the current illiterate "texting" generation - a literate person will need an interpreter to read a newspaper.
    I view texting as having an ADDITIONAL communication skill...not a replacement. Sort of like living in France and deciding to learn a little French. .
    Dick Steinkamp
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    Silver Hawk Member Chris Pile's Avatar
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    I view texting as having an ADDITIONAL communication skill...not a replacement. Sort of like living in France and deciding to learn a little French. .
    Dick - YOU know how to communicate.
    Some of these kids.... not so much.
    The only difference between death and taxes is that death does not grow worse every time Congress convenes. - Will Rogers

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    Golden Hawk Member DEEPNHOCK's Avatar
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    Yes.... Yes you do need a proofreader...

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertain...840&ref=clavis

    (copy)
    Newspaper makes world's most unfortunate typo in Julia Roberts profile
    11 Dec, 2018 11:04am


    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
    Yes.... Yes you do need a proofreader...

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertain...840&ref=clavis

    (copy)
    Newspaper makes world's most unfortunate typo in Julia Roberts profile
    11 Dec, 2018 11:04am


    Surely a story about her taking up golf and how her game is improving.

    If everything was proofread what would Jay Leno have ever done without his segment, "Headlines?"
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