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Thread: 1960 Lark with no engine

  1. #1
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    1960 Lark with no engine

    Hi all, i am new to Studebakers and recently bought a 1960 Lark without an engine as the car was for sale half an hour down the road from me and it looked interesting as it is a pretty rare occasion to find any model of Studebaker here in Spain.

    Obviously trying to find an original engine here in Spain or even in Europe would be very challenging so got to go with what i can find. Original engine was a L6 still got the head,sump, starter and dynamo but am looking at V8's as they seem more available this side of the pond. The transmission i have is a R10F with overdrive and axle Dana 27 (no.C3137) with ratio 4.10:1, question is would this be ok with a V8 , i guess durability shouldn't be a problem but the diff ratio seems more suited for the slower flathead.

    I have found a 318 Mopar which has the auto transmission also available if the original trans is not up to the job but fitting to the original trans may be easier then making adaptations to the drive shaft or axle to make it fit.

  2. #2
    President Member 57pack's Avatar
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    Congratulations on your 1960 Lark purchase!
    There’s quite a few Studebaker folks in Europe. I’d reach out to see if you could find a Studebaker V8 to drop in your Lark.
    Would be easier and would be more original if you ever decided to sell it.
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    If you go with a v8 you will have to upgrade brakes, suspension, rear axle. A chevy v6 would be easier to swap.

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    President Member Dwain G.'s Avatar
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    To answer the original question, no.....the T-96 transmission from a six cylinder Studebaker will not fit in place of the T-86 used in V8 cars.

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    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    The R-10 is the REAR Part of your transmission, the Overdrive Unit.
    If you look at the Main Case, Right Side, you will find that it is the Borg Warner (WG) T-96 lightweight Trans. as in; "for a Low Power Engine", so no it can not handle a V8 or higher power 6.

    The Model 27 Rear Axle is the same story, it is for a Low Power Engine.
    A Dana Model 44 was used for most V8's.
    The Brakes can be upgraded to V8 type 11 Inch Front and 10 Inch Rear Drums, or a Disc. Brake upgrade to handle more weight and Power.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner




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    Since you are in Spain, I expect you would have better luck finding a European engine and transmission for your Lark. Maybe a 4 cyl or inline six from a BMW? Or a Mercedes Diesel? Studebaker actually built a couple of Larks with that engine, so I know the swap is possible. A Volvo 240 series engine and transmission would also be a possible option.
    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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    I don't see a problem with using the 27 axle with a small V-8. While admittedly not up to drag racing duty, or doing burn outs, Studebaker used them as standard behind the 259 in tens of thousands of Lark's. It's whats served in my '64 Daytona HT for these last 55 years.

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    A lightweight Rover (Buick) aluminum V-8 might be a good choice, if available. Years ago I installed one in a A.H. Sprite.

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    [QUOTE=70Avanti2;1134099]If you go with a v8 you will have to upgrade brakes, suspension, rear axle. A chevy v6 would be easier to swap.[/QUOTE

    Do you know what cars V6
    were fitted in
    Last edited by Miloburnz; 11-06-2018 at 02:32 AM.

  10. #10
    President Member Noxnabaker's Avatar
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    I just read that the chevy would be a easier fit, why?
    I have a MoPar 318 in my -55 sedan & even the mounts lined up fine. A van/truck oilpan is needed & it gets a wee bit tight by the steering rod from the steeringbox & startermotor, that's easy fixed by changing the pitman arms angle & shorten the rod that goes forward, but be serious when welding it. Torqueflite is small enough, mine is a A500.
    My car was also a 6-cylinder car with manual gearbox but it was all waisted stuff, the rear axel is from a Volare/Aspen since it was what I had & easy enough for me to use.
    If you can get in to tha "Racing Studebakers" site you can read about it, but it's hard for non-US people to get in there, I can only get in very seldom.
    There's a good place in Holland for Studebaker parts, called Laakmolden BV / www.oldcarparts.nl.
    Good luck!
    Last edited by Noxnabaker; 11-06-2018 at 04:44 AM.


    Josephine
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    Champion V8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miloburnz View Post
    Hi all, i am new to Studebakers and recently bought a 1960 Lark without an engine as the car was for sale half an hour down the road from me and it looked interesting as it is a pretty rare occasion to find any model of Studebaker here in Spain.

    Obviously trying to find an original engine here in Spain or even in Europe would be very challenging so got to go with what i can find. Original engine was a L6 still got the head,sump, starter and dynamo but am looking at V8's as they seem more available this side of the pond. The transmission i have is a R10F with overdrive and axle Dana 27 (no.C3137) with ratio 4.10:1, question is would this be ok with a V8 , i guess durability shouldn't be a problem but the diff ratio seems more suited for the slower flathead.

    I have found a 318 Mopar which has the auto transmission also available if the original trans is not up to the job but fitting to the original trans may be easier then making adaptations to the drive shaft or axle to make it fit.
    The 318 will go in easily but the oil pan must be changed to a rear sump style. The Dana 27 axle will hold up fine for normal driving. Driven aggressively a V8 engine will take teeth of the differential side gears. The six cylinder cars had 10" front and 9" rear brakes. The V8 cars had 11" and 10" respectively. AN upgrade is not mandatory but encouraged. If the TF on the engine is a 904, it has direct drive. A lower numerical axle is suggested. If it is a 500, it is overdriven in high gear so the 4.10 will work out fine. A 1st gen smallblock Chevy will bolt in but there is some additional work to be done there as well. Search the SDC Europe clubs to see if a Studebaker engine can be found.
    james r pepper

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    The reason I said a chevy v6 would be easier is because other parts would not need to be changed. He is in Spain. If he cannot find a stude six. He wount be able to find a dana 44 axle bigger brakes etc.

    The v6 was used in many 1980's chevy's. I just don't know what kind of cars you have in Spain.

  13. #13
    President Member 57pack's Avatar
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    Another good source for Studebaker parts help is Greg Diffen of the UK Studebaker Drivers Club. I realize it’s a good distance from Spain to England but would be a fun Drive now that there’s the “Chunnel”.
    On another note...does anyone remember a book titled “Stationwagon In Spain”? It featured a Lark (1960?) stationwagon and family on vacation in Spain in their new Lark.
    1957 Packard Clipper Country Sedan

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    Noxnabaker is the man I would listen too. He's done it and knows what he's talking about. If you can find the rear axle it would be easy. All you would need from the US is a full disc brake kit and a pair of new front springs. Not a very big or heavy package to ship. Then you would have a safe and driveable Studebaker.

    Can you post some pictures of the car? Maybe give us a little history on the car?

    Good luck!

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    President Member swvalcon's Avatar
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    If you can find a ford explorer rear axle and shorten one side there is your rear end and will take a v8 with ease.

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    President Member Noxnabaker's Avatar
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    Like I said, a Volare/Aspen is easy to find in Europe. & the axel fits exept for the spring wideness, but there are many ways to fix that, I just moved mine. If you google "Osby skroten", a big US junkyard in south Sweden, you might even find axel from a 60's Valiant/Dart/Barracuda & then you'll be fit enough directly. But it should be from a V8 car if you wanna really drive it.
    As for brakes: I still have the original front drumbrakes, there are speed limits & the car aint that awfully much heavier & stops fine. I'm not driving any high moiuntains either, where disk brakes would be needed.
    Good luck!

    Here's Josephine, original springs & brakes:
    Nox's.jpg


    Josephine
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    I got the 318 on its way as had to make a start somehow , the trans was a 727 so i left it as a 904 would be better . Looking for a 904 which is easy to find in Spain and i found a full drive train with 8 ¼ axle from a Chrysler 180 but the trans bellhousings don't match, what engine did your A500 come off ? Did you have to modify it?

  18. #18
    President Member Noxnabaker's Avatar
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    The 904 is just a wee bit smaller than the 727 & if your gearbox don't fit it might be from a 360; the only MoPar s.b. that has some differences such as for example one side front mounts & maby/probably(?) also the bellhousing... I would go for the stuff that was fitted from the factory, the 727 is only bigger on the right front lower side if I remember correct, there's a site for this stuff too: "for A-bodies only" (if you have patiencen with young smart-heads) where you can get all answers, I only have a few...
    My gearbox is a overdrive from a 1989 250 van I had & the engine is now also from that van, I overheated the -77 Volare engine... The engines & gearboxes I've had (273-340) has all just been bolt-on.
    "Chrysler 180" I never even heard about, is it Australian made or something? (We only get US made MoPars in Sweden.)
    Last edited by Noxnabaker; 11-24-2018 at 03:51 AM.


    Josephine
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    I have been on the Mopar forum and got some useful info , i was looking for a 904 as the 727's are more for vans and big blocks usually so heavier duty.

    The Chrysler 180 (Simca/Talbot) was a an attempt to make a kind of Valiant for the European market in the late 70's and was finally made in Spain from 75-82 so there are a lot of spares for these and they use the same transmissions and 8 ¼ axles from the rest of the Mopars but difference is they are coupled to 2L 4 cylinders so have a similar bellhousing to the slant 6 .

    I checked out Osby skroten and was surprised at the amount of US cars they have in especially the old classic wreckers, i will see what they can come up with. I am guessing US cars have always been popular in Sweden and i do recall seeing a fair few when i was there this summer.

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    "I checked out Osby skroten and was surprised at the amount of US cars they have in especially the old classic wreckers, i will see what they can come up with. I am guessing US cars have always been popular in Sweden and i do recall seeing a fair few when i was there this summer."

    Why not get a Volvo 140 or 240 series engine, with their overdrive transmission? Should be plenty available. They use American standard bolt sizes and threads, or did for many years, and the 140 engine design is not that dissimilar to the Studebaker OHV engine. And the 4.10 rear axle in your car would suit that engine/transmission combo. The only tricky thing might be adapting the Volvo clutch cable to the '60 Stude clutch pedal.
    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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    Silver Hawk Member Swifster's Avatar
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    I don't see it mentioned, so I'll say it... Chevy V6's (4.3L) and V8's drop in on a Lark because the '65 & '66 models had Chevy's from the factory. Brackets are available to drop these right in.
    Tom - Bradenton, FL

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    President Member cultural infidel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifster View Post
    I don't see it mentioned, so I'll say it... Chevy V6's (4.3L) and V8's drop in on a Lark because the '65 & '66 models had Chevy's from the factory. Brackets are available to drop these right in.
    Do you happen to know who carries these brackets? And in turn are there crossmembers avail for the Chevy transmissions?
    1960 Lark VIII Regal Wagon


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    Just about all the Stude parts suppliers have the engine stands , the trans crossmember is easy to fabricate. There are several threads on here about this swap. Does tend to ruffle a few feathers...I love mine

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    President Member cultural infidel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lumpy View Post
    Just about all the Stude parts suppliers have the engine stands , the trans crossmember is easy to fabricate. There are several threads on here about this swap. Does tend to ruffle a few feathers...I love mine
    Not one to worry about ruffling feathers anymore. It's more about having those extra options
    1960 Lark VIII Regal Wagon


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    Quote Originally Posted by gordr View Post
    "I checked out Osby skroten and was surprised at the amount of US cars they have in especially the old classic wreckers, i will see what they can come up with. I am guessing US cars have always been popular in Sweden and i do recall seeing a fair few when i was there this summer."

    Why not get a Volvo 140 or 240 series engine, with their overdrive transmission? Should be plenty available. They use American standard bolt sizes and threads, or did for many years, and the 140 engine design is not that dissimilar to the Studebaker OHV engine. And the 4.10 rear axle in your car would suit that engine/transmission combo. The only tricky thing might be adapting the Volvo clutch cable to the '60 Stude clutch pedal.
    I have looked at Volvo engines before for an engineless Humber i had but i don't think the 6 cylinder would fit in the Lark regardless i was trying to keep it all American as would be worth more and easier to sell in the future. Also to change engine type i would require an engineers report amongst other paperwork here in Spain so if its an old 6 or a V8 would be hard to disprove its not an engine destined to be fitted in the car thats why taking the Mopar route is the easy option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifster View Post
    I don't see it mentioned, so I'll say it... Chevy V6's (4.3L) and V8's drop in on a Lark because the '65 & '66 models had Chevy's from the factory. Brackets are available to drop these right in.
    I did find a few chevy engines but people tend to ask a lot of cash for them this side of the pond , Mopars are a lot cheaper .

  27. #27
    Silver Hawk Member Studedude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miloburnz View Post
    I did find a few chevy engines but people tend to ask a lot of cash for them this side of the pond , Mopars are a lot cheaper .
    What a wonderful problem to have!!
    Last edited by Studedude; 11-28-2018 at 06:39 PM.

    Dave Lester

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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by 70Avanti2 View Post
    Noxnabaker is the man I would listen too. He's done it and knows what he's talking about. If you can find the rear axle it would be easy. All you would need from the US is a full disc brake kit and a pair of new front springs. Not a very big or heavy package to ship. Then you would have a safe and driveable Studebaker.

    Can you post some pictures of the car? Maybe give us a little history on the car?

    Good luck!
    Mopar is the way to go, found a few engine and trans options for reasonable prices also found some Mopar and Dana axles so will turn out more or less same car as the Lark V8 .

    Disk brakes are the way to go but not sure if i could use the Turner economy kit and find the rotors and calipers that will fit over here . Springs i can get made here . Or is the Mustang II the better option.

    History - Nicole Chevallot first registered the car 1963 in Mallorca Spain, I found some receipts inside from the local body shop (that are still in business) dated early to mid seventies for repairs to dings/scratches and some maintenance the last one dated 1975 was a quote for repairing the front fender which is why it is not fitted, looks like the car hit something as one of the brackets is broken and the radiator housing is pushed up slightly but they had already started straightening it out by the look of things and this is probably why the lights and fittings were in the trunk.

    Engine has been dismantled as con rods,pistons,head,sump, manifolds, carb are present but the block missing, this is the third flathead engined car i have seen in Spain in this state i guess its the story of the block needs to be sent away for rebuild and never comes back for whatever reason. Maybe the engine was removed later on as i can't see how it could have been damaged same time as the fender.

    Nicole de registered it as not in circulation in 1977 and has been this status ever since. I pulled it out of a field but was told it was previously stored in a warehouse which must be true as apart from lots of surface rust the car is solid and the interior great original condition but needs a bit of tidying.

    I think it has been left so long as Studebaker is not that well known in Spain and maybe wasn't back in the 60's either as its previous owner was French it could have been a direct import from France, i cannot imagine a Chevy , Ford or Chrysler would spend 40+ years in Limbo in Spain.

    IMG_5066.jpgIMG_5042.jpgIMG_5026.jpg
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    Last edited by Miloburnz; 11-30-2018 at 08:38 AM.

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    Tahiti Choral? Looks like a solid start. The Kph speedometer is pretty cool too.
    Last edited by lumpy; 11-29-2018 at 10:33 PM.

  30. #30
    President Member Noxnabaker's Avatar
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    If the Simca-"Chrysler" has a 8,1/4 rear axel I reckon it would be the best option ever in this case, I can't imagen the spring brackets being that awfully much appart because the Simca's we had here in Sweden was pretty small cars.

    As I still use original -55 Champion brakes on Josephine I also know that Volvo PV 544
    PV.jpg from early 60's has the same brake cylinders, so if you have a classic Volvo club in Spain it might be an easy find. (In Holland Volvo's from the 60's are all over the place; that's where they went when Sweden was entering EU bcause it looked like a poor country having so many old cars in daiy trafic... Silly enough!)

    & when it comes to 4-cyl Volvo engines I can say that the B20 (2 liters) that's used in late Amazon 121/122/123GT,
    Amazon.jpg 140 & early 240 isn not as good as the B18 (1,8 liters) used in 1962-68 Amazon & PV because they used less quality materials in most parts, & you can for example see the difference on the rocker design, so for all who's in to these engines: It's better to enlargen a B18 to 2 liters if more torque is wanted.
    & as for clutch cable: before -68(I think) it was hydraulic, exept for the Duett 210
    Duett.jpg that had mechanical stuff like any old frame-built car.

    & yep; these cars are like smaller US cars & uses for example Spicer or Dana rear axels & such...
    Last edited by Noxnabaker; 12-01-2018 at 11:48 AM.


    Josephine
    -55
    Champion V8
    4d sedan

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