Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Front Disc Brakes

  1. #1
    Commander Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    77

    Front Disc Brakes

    Is a Dual master cyl Required For front disc brake conversion OR
    can the single master function just fine for front disc ????

  2. #2
    Silver Hawk Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Spokane, WA, USA.
    Posts
    8,218
    Quote Originally Posted by 63looks59 View Post
    Is a Dual master cyl Required For front disc brake conversion OR
    can the single master function just fine for front disc ????
    Short answer, yes. Studebaker built front disc brake cars with a single master cylinder.

    Many here will write you're endangering yourself and everyone on the highway by venturing out with a single master cylinder. Your opinions and results may vary, but fact remains the single master cylinder worked well for forty years. It just isn't as idiot-proof as a dual. The single requires scrupulous maintenance, including flushing the system ever 2-3 years. Even though few owners ever did that, the single master cylinder failures were rare.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

  3. #3
    President Member Gunslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Frederick, Maryland, USA.
    Posts
    4,135
    I can testify that single master cylinders do fail. It happened over thirty years ago when I had my '63 Avanti. I had just pulled out of a convenience store one morning about 6:30AM heading to the car dealer I was working at. The brake pedal went to the floor and no braking at all. It was very low speed and here was no traffic that time of the morning. I just let the car drift into the parking lot of where I worked and the car stopped when it slowly bumped into the curb...no damage of any kind. The car sat there while I ordered and received a master cylinder rebuild kit then once fixed it was fine.

    Some years later after I sold the car and it passed through at least two owners I was able to locate the car and its owner. The car had repeated its history...the new owner had the car painted and when he returned home the master cylinder failed as he pulled into his garage and hit the tool cabinet and did $1800 in body damage to his just out of the body shop car. Deja' vu.
    Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

  4. #4
    President Member thunderations's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,594
    The dual cylinder that is used is very inexpensive, pretty easy to plumb and gives excellent peace of mind. I converted my 66 Daytona with factory discs to the dual cylinder and it's great. I also replaced every steel and flex line, rebuilt the calibers and wheel cylinders. It stops good and straight.
    The next conversion will be a Turner disc conversion to a drum brake 64 using the dual master cylinder. I know the 11" drum brakes were good, but the cost of new drums offsets the cost of the discs, plus, the discs are better.
    1966 Daytona (The First One)
    1950 Champion Convertible
    1950 Champion 4Dr
    1955 President 2 Dr Hardtop
    1957 Thunderbird

  5. #5
    President Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Niotre Dame, IN USA
    Posts
    2,367
    A year ago my 1963 Avanti received a Turner dual master cylinder and front disc brake conversion. A good improvement.

  6. #6
    President Member bensherb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Tracy / Goleta Ca.
    Posts
    991
    The conversion to a dual master on a Lark is super easy, no reason not to do it. It's more involved on a Hawk and other parts beyond just the cylinder and brake line are needed.

    A single type master cylinder will work for any brake system if properly sized. I once had a four wheel disk system with four, 4 piston calipers and a single reservior master and it worked great. The brakes, calipers/wheel cylinders, don't know or care how many reserviors the master cylinder has. They only care that the bore is appropriatly sized and the reservior is of sufficient size to maintain fluid supply.

  7. #7
    Silver Hawk Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA.
    Posts
    5,208
    A matter yet to be addressed here in the use of a single master cylinder, (which I also used, trouble free for decades), is the check valve.
    You must remove the check valve from the front of the master cylinder. Then install a 2 lb check for the front brakes and a 10 lb check for the rear brakes.
    The front will keep enough pressure in the line to keep the brake pads close to the rotors. This is what gives the quick response for the pedal.
    The rear is needed to keep the cups expanded in the wheel cylinder so it doesn't leak and maintains pressure.
    If I've misspoke, someone will surely correct me.
    But the check valves are indeed necessary.
    sals54

  8. #8
    President Member bensherb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Tracy / Goleta Ca.
    Posts
    991
    It could be just my experiance Sal, but I've never used any residual pressure valve in any brake system I've built and have never noted a need for one. You are very correct in that the residual valve needs to be removed from any master cylinder not originally intended for disk brake use. If not, the first time you step on the brake the disks will lock and not release.

  9. #9
    Speedster Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    162
    A nice advantage of having to grease everything at 1000 mile intervals is that you get to inspect the brake and suspension to help avoid embarrassing failures.

    JT

  10. #10
    Commander Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    77
    Thank U all-----I get it that Hydraulics are just that---no matter how many reserviors----yet I have heard since I have been
    interested in this, of a few single cyl failures---seems although not frequent by any means----it may be not... Rare
    so I think I am going to go with the dual--- and later a disc conversion----
    I want to THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR EXPERTISE

  11. #11
    Silver Hawk Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA.
    Posts
    5,208
    Quote Originally Posted by bensherb View Post
    It could be just my experiance Sal, but I've never used any residual pressure valve in any brake system I've built and have never noted a need for one. You are very correct in that the residual valve needs to be removed from any master cylinder not originally intended for disk brake use. If not, the first time you step on the brake the disks will lock and not release.
    While I'm sure it's possible to have the system work that way, I've always used the 2# and 10# checks in my systems. Never had a problem
    sals54

  12. #12
    Golden Hawk Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Wappingers Falls, New York, USA.
    Posts
    21,188
    Quote Originally Posted by 63looks59 View Post
    Is a Dual master cyl Required For front disc brake conversion OR
    can the single master function just fine for front disc ????
    If you have drum brakes now and you are referring to "63looks59", you already have a factory dual master cylinder.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

  13. #13
    President Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Dothan, Alabama.*******SDC member
    Posts
    3,712
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    I can testify that single master cylinders do fail. It happened over thirty years ago when I had my '63 Avanti. I had just pulled out of a convenience store one morning about 6:30AM heading to the car dealer I was working at. The brake pedal went to the floor and no braking at all. It was very low speed and here was no traffic that time of the morning. I just let the car drift into the parking lot of where I worked and the car stopped when it slowly bumped into the curb...no damage of any kind. The car sat there while I ordered and received a master cylinder rebuild kit then once fixed it was fine.

    Some years later after I sold the car and it passed through at least two owners I was able to locate the car and its owner. The car had repeated its history...the new owner had the car painted and when he returned home the master cylinder failed as he pulled into his garage and hit the tool cabinet and did $1800 in body damage to his just out of the body shop car. Deja' vu.
    Don't put new guts in an old master cylinder. They are available brand new very reasonably priced at bout 50.00 jimmijim
    Anything worth doing deserves your best shot. Do it right the first time. When you're done you will know it. { I'm just the guy who thinks he knows everything, my buddy is the guy who knows everything.} cheers jimmijim*****SDC***** member

  14. #14
    President Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Noblesville, Indiana, USA.
    Posts
    2,862
    Yes, a single M/C will work! BUT, you must either use a diac brake M/C or remove the residual check valve in the drum M/C. Otherwise, you will get "about" 3-4 miles or so, before the brakes lock up! (don't sk how I know) <G>

    The stock M/C has a 10# residual check valve built in, disc brakes use a 2# check valve. Why not go with a dual M/C? it IS a safety issue!

    Jim

  15. #15
    President Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,841
    Sal....the single master cyl that was on my Avanti for almost 50 years never had a check valve! As you know the front Dunlop cylinders are 2 and 1/8...the rears 3/4.....this was done to prevent rear wheel brake lockup! The only thing I have added to my car is a Master Power hold off valve, to allow the the rear shoes to be applied slightly before the front pads begin to engage, thus preventing some nose dive. Additionally I put in a two chamber M/C with the same bore as the single, so I would have the same pedal feel.
    Quote Originally Posted by sals54 View Post
    A matter yet to be addressed here in the use of a single master cylinder, (which I also used, trouble free for decades), is the check valve.
    You must remove the check valve from the front of the master cylinder. Then install a 2 lb check for the front brakes and a 10 lb check for the rear brakes.
    The front will keep enough pressure in the line to keep the brake pads close to the rotors. This is what gives the quick response for the pedal.
    The rear is needed to keep the cups expanded in the wheel cylinder so it doesn't leak and maintains pressure.
    If I've misspoke, someone will surely correct me.
    But the check valves are indeed necessary.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •