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Thread: Dual Master Cyl on mid 50's Studebaker

  1. #1
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    Dual Master Cyl on mid 50's Studebaker

    Folks---- a few ?'s

    Is a Dual master far better than SINGLE master, IF IF , a future front disc brake conversion is planned ? Does the TURNER brake frame mount dual master have enough "PUSH" with the foot to actuate the full hydraulic pressure needed for good stopping?

    Lastly, is my old single master cyl just fine enough for disc brakes ? THANK U ALL

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    President Member Jerry Forrester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 63looks59 View Post
    Folks---- a few ?'s

    Is a Dual master far better than SINGLE master, IF IF , a future front disc brake conversion is planned ? Does the TURNER brake frame mount dual master have enough "PUSH" with the foot to actuate the full hydraulic pressure needed for good stopping?

    Lastly, is my old single master cyl just fine enough for disc brakes ? THANK U ALL
    Is safety a concern to you?
    With the single action master cylinder, if a brake line gives way you have NO brakes.
    With a dual master cylinder, if a brake line gives way, you still have 2 wheel brakes that will still be in service.
    Jerry Forrester
    Forrester's Chrome
    Douglasville, Georgia

    See all of Buttercup's pictures at https://imgur.com/a/tBjGzTk


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    I did a Turner dual master and disc brake conversion on my 52, along with all new hard lines and complete system rebuild. It's got great pedal feel and I can lock them, so plenty of power.

    20171027_123223.jpg
    3H-C5 "The Blue Goose"


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    President Member BRUCESTUDE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjamesk View Post
    I did a Turner dual master and disc brake conversion on my 52, along with all new hard lines and complete system rebuild. It's got great pedal feel and I can lock them, so plenty of power.

    20171027_123223.jpg
    I did the same install on the Lark, with an eye for future disc brake upgrade (only have a few hundred miles on rebuilt drum brakes).

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    YES, worth every penny....
    I nearly lost my 2R5 about 2 blocks from the SNM due to a blown rear wheel cyl that had been sleeved and failed. Single pot MC lost all it's fluid in a couple pushes. went straight thru a stop light with no emergency brake, as the rear linings were coated with DOT 3.
    DID YOU KNOW YOU CAN DRIFT A STUDEBAKER?

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    President Member 5brown1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjamesk View Post
    I did a Turner dual master and disc brake conversion on my 52, along with all new hard lines and complete system rebuild. It's got great pedal feel and I can lock them, so plenty of power.

    20171027_123223.jpg
    What master cylinder is that?

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    Is a Dual master cyl Required For front disc brake conversion OR can the single master function fine for front disc ????

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    President Member thunderations's Avatar
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    A single will function.................Now, define "fine". There's a big safety reason for dual master cylinders. The dual MC cost is about the same as a single and the re-plumbing is pretty simple and not expensive. To be even better, replace all the steel and rubber lines. Even the newest Studebaker brake lines are over 50 years old and have been corroding on the insides and rusting on the outsides all that time.
    Quote Originally Posted by 63looks59 View Post
    Is a Dual master cyl Required For front disc brake conversion OR can the single master function fine for front disc ????
    1966 Daytona (The First One)
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    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    The safest way to brake is to drive as though the car might loose the brakes the next time you step on the pedal. Don't drive to the limit, like so many of today's fools on the road do. I've had modern dual master cylinder cars loose brakes on one side, and the pedal goes almost to the floor and scares the crap out of a person. I like my cars original, so I stick with the single master, but make sure the whole brake system is in good shape, and I always switch to DOT 5 silicone on my older cars.

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    President Member 5brown1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 63looks59 View Post
    Is a Dual master cyl Required For front disc brake conversion OR can the single master function fine for front disc ????
    What I am asking is what is the brand and part number or application of the master cylinder that is pictured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5brown1 View Post
    What I am asking is what is the brand and part number or application of the master cylinder that is pictured.
    That's the "Corvette style", available from most big hot rod stores and countless websites.

    I purchased this one for my '51: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Unive...Bore,4316.html

    I also bought a remote reservoir setup for it. I'll be installing it this weekend, I'll let you know how it works out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbstude View Post
    That's the "Corvette style", available from most big hot rod stores and countless websites.

    I purchased this one for my '51: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Unive...Bore,4316.html

    I also bought a remote reservoir setup for it. I'll be installing it this weekend, I'll let you know how it works out.
    I am a believer in split braking systems. This one that Matt posted looks good and is even less cost than a new replacement single system cylinder (I remember when they were $9.95.).
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

  13. #13
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    After the scare I had, i believe in Dual Pot MC's. Did you know that the emergency brake won't work if you coat the rear linings with fluid?

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    Golden Hawk Member jclary's Avatar
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    Here again, is the often overlooked judging rule regarding not penalizing owners for items changed for safety reasons. And I can't think of anything more important than brakes for safety! Even the Amish have taken to adding hydraulic brakes to their buggies. I have not installed dual master cylinders to any of my vintage cars, but I know I should.

    Reflecting back, I recall 1964, my first car, was a 1955 four-door hardtop Buick Special. We had some relatives come to visit us who lived on the coast. Up until that time, I don't think they had ever been over a hundred and fifty miles inland! At our home on the N.C./S.C. state line, (near Shelby, N.C.) they were in awe of our rolling hills, and already acting as if they were in the mountains. We overloaded two cars, my 1955 Buick, and our 1953 Pontiac family sedan, and headed to the Blue Ridge Parkway! Me, a very inexperienced driver, and that old Pontiac with my Dad leading the way.

    Back then, it was a great adventure. Zero cars with dual master cylinders. Our flatlander relatives might as well been on the moon. We had a terrific time, but in retrospect, it was really a dangerous excursion. My dad had schooled me on brake stabbing/checking rather than brake riding, and I listened. On that trip, we smelled lots of overheated brakes from others and a common site was people pulled over so their overheated brakes could cool.

    Yesterday, I rode my motorcycle 165 miles on some of those mountain roads. Completely different era, and technology. Even the bike has ABS brakes. Probably all of us with the ability to do the work should summon up the energy to do the dual master upgrade on any of our cars we plan to use in public.
    John Clary
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    President Member t walgamuth's Avatar
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    I lost the brakes on my 51 Caddy hearse (6000#) once. Luckily I was approaching a light and had slowed down. I grabbed the E brake and got it stopped but have converted a half dozen older cars since then to dual circuit masters. You'd be sunk if it happened in the mountains.
    Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

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    President Member DougHolverson's Avatar
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    Is that Speedway master cylinder a direct bolt on to the frame or not?
    1963 Champ "Daisy Stu Bludebaker"- sometimes driver
    1957 Silver Hawk "Josie"- picking up the pieces after an unreliable body man let it rot for 11 years from an almost driver to a basket case
    1951 Commander Starlight "Dale"- basket case, next project after the Hawk
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  17. #17
    President Member DougHolverson's Avatar
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    Never mind... What I thought were mounting holes are actually the outlet holes. So does Speedway have a mounting kit hidden somewhere in their site?
    1963 Champ "Daisy Stu Bludebaker"- sometimes driver
    1957 Silver Hawk "Josie"- picking up the pieces after an unreliable body man let it rot for 11 years from an almost driver to a basket case
    1951 Commander Starlight "Dale"- basket case, next project after the Hawk
    1947 Champion "Sally"- basket case
    1941 Commander Land Cruiser "Ursula"- basket case

  18. #18
    Speedster Member
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    You should call up Turner and ask them all the questions. They are very helpful.

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    As far as I know, Jim Turner is the only source for an under the floor dual MC bracket for Studebakers.

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    President Member rusty65's Avatar
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    I am debating having a dual master cylinder put in my '60 Lark,knowing that I want the entire brake system redone anyway as a matter of safety.I will probably stay with the drum brake system, but the dual master cylinder sounds like a hit.Thanks for starting this thread, it's got me thinking....

  21. #21
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    When did they switch to self actuating brakes?? I think a Turner conversion is a good idea but I have never had a Studebaker MC fail I am knocking on wood and crossing fingers as I type! Of course you can drift a Studebaker! Did it all the time with my 61 Hawk: problem was in a 4 wheel drift to the left the WCFB carb would starve the engine of fuel and it would cut out.

  22. #22
    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffry Cassel View Post
    When did they switch to self actuating brakes??
    1954 was the first year for self actuating brakes on a Studebaker car.
    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioRoy View Post
    ..... for self actuating brakes ..

    you mean "Self-Adjusting"?
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    No. Older brakes used wc to push the shoe into the drum. The more you push the more you brake. Trouble was you had to push really, really hard.so a puny person in an emergency goes crash. Engineers - apparantly in or about 1953-- came up with a slick trick. . Selfactuating or selfenergizing brakes. They use the wc to push the shoes too but then using mechanical advantage or magic the primary actuates the secondary which then does most of the braking. That is why they are different--the secondary often has more lining than the primary. That is why the secondary often shows more wear. And the car stops way better with far less pedal pressure--a quantum leap forward in automotive safety.

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