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Thread: 1963 Avanti Air Conditioning

  1. #1
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    1963 Avanti Air Conditioning

    I also posted this question on the AOAI Forum, in hopes of getting a fast answer, so I can get this job done. I apologize for the same post in two places, for those of you who are on both forums.

    After replacing both leaking valves on the compressor (so no Freon), I am ready to vacuum pump down, and charge up. I am staying with R12, as I have a tank. I know the specs are for fill 3 lbs., and check the sight gauge for bubbles. I bought some Supercool Ester Oil that says compatible with R134a and R12. The question is: How do I tell how much oil to put in, if any?
    I do not want to take all components off, try to dump and see what is in there now.
    Anybody help Please!
    George Rohrbach

  2. #2
    Silver Hawk Member bezhawk's Avatar
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    there is a fill plug on the side. since the compressor is tilted this may help, I think you want 10 oz.
    Last edited by bezhawk; 08-11-2018 at 11:22 PM. Reason: ou want 10m
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    Speaking of York compressors.....given a choice, which would be the better purchase of a new unit from T/CCI, or 4-Seasons(Standard Motor Products) I know 4-seasons is made in Mexico, T/CCI I have no clue??
    Quote Originally Posted by bezhawk View Post
    there is a fill plug on the side. since the compressor is tilted this may help, I think you want 10 oz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawklover View Post
    Speaking of York compressors.....given a choice, which would be the better purchase of a new unit from T/CCI, or 4-Seasons(Standard Motor Products) I know 4-seasons is made in Mexico, T/CCI I have no clue??
    Apples/oranges. Your York is a crankshaft/single piston design. Nothing really wrong with that, but new rotary or swash plate compressors are somewhat more efficient. If you change over, you're going to have to make adapters or new mounting brackets. AFAIK there are no USA built compressors of any kind. China, Mexico, wherever, I wouldn't worry.

    If your existing York is in good condition, I'd leave it. If it's roached, you can buy a bolt on rebuilt York or convert to a more modern design.

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    Thanks for your input. Since the slow leak that I had was the valves, and not a catastrophic failure that would have blown out a lot of oil with the Freon, I just added 1 oz. The diagram was helpful, but the fill plug is on the side where the mounting is, so no way to get to it, without taking off more than I wanted to, at this point in time.
    If I have any issues, I will take off, and also take off all the other parts for renewal at the same time. But I would probably keep the original York.
    Again thanks.
    George Rohrbach

  6. #6
    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    Speaking of a leaking valve, I had a strange problem with a customers A/C about 20 years ago. I leak checked his system and refilled it. He came back two days later with an empty system. I rechecked for leaks, and found nothing, so I refilled it again. He came back again in 2 days, and I discovered the last thing I did before sending him away was screw the plastic dust cap on the valve. Well, that damn plastic cap was faulty and the final turn to tighten it would hit the valve and slightly open it.

    As far as compressors, I had to replace the original compressors on both my 91 and 99 Olds 88's. I bought them from an outfit in Texas for $95 each delivered to my door and filled with oil. They have been perfect and far outlasted the original GM compressors.

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    The compressor on my car is 25 plus years old, oil is leaking out in great amounts...so ordered a new York from 4-seasons....I am keeping the system R12, but swallowed a bit hard when given the price......a bit over $400.00, let me tell you the brackets as engineered by Studebaker for the Avanti are well just say I can't use the words I would like to....and that belt tension-er....what kind of engineering is that POS???
    Quote Originally Posted by jnormanh View Post
    Apples/oranges. Your York is a crankshaft/single piston design. Nothing really wrong with that, but new rotary or swash plate compressors are somewhat more efficient. If you change over, you're going to have to make adapters or new mounting brackets. AFAIK there are no USA built compressors of any kind. China, Mexico, wherever, I wouldn't worry.

    If your existing York is in good condition, I'd leave it. If it's roached, you can buy a bolt on rebuilt York or convert to a more modern design.

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    Thank the lord you do not have to remove it, you will need a lift to get access to some of the bolts....one of which goes through the water manifold/head, I became alarmed when I saw anti-freeze start to drip down the engine, then I saw where it was coming from, when I put the bracket back so went in the bolt, and the leak stopped.
    Quote Originally Posted by Georger View Post
    Thanks for your input. Since the slow leak that I had was the valves, and not a catastrophic failure that would have blown out a lot of oil with the Freon, I just added 1 oz. The diagram was helpful, but the fill plug is on the side where the mounting is, so no way to get to it, without taking off more than I wanted to, at this point in time.
    If I have any issues, I will take off, and also take off all the other parts for renewal at the same time. But I would probably keep the original York.
    Again thanks.
    George Rohrbach

  9. #9
    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawklover View Post
    let me tell you the brackets as engineered by Studebaker for the Avanti are well just say I can't use the words I would like to....and that belt tension-er....what kind of engineering is that POS???
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawklover View Post
    Thank the lord you do not have to remove it, you will need a lift to get access to some of the bolts....one of which goes through the water manifold/head, I became alarmed when I saw anti-freeze start to drip down the engine, then I saw where it was coming from, when I put the bracket back so went in the bolt, and the leak stopped.
    Is the bracket for the york compressor on the Avanti wildly different than that of the Hawk? I can't seem to find a pic of one online.

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    Not sure about Hawk, but Avanti is a cumbersome 2 piece affair that also supports the altenator.
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    Back in 1967 the Studebaker dealer in Miami, Florida (Trojan Service Center & Parts)installed the A/C kit in the car....it took the sole owner of the place 5 days to put that system in, as he had to work on it in between all the other work, looking back I am amazed he did that install without a lift, working from the top and below on a creeper...but I do remember his remarks concerning those brackets!
    Quote Originally Posted by 64studeavanti View Post
    Not sure about Hawk, but Avanti is a cumbersome 2 piece affair that also supports the altenator.

  12. #12
    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    All the pics I can find of Avanti's with AC have Sanden type compressors on them, but they were mounted in the same place as my Hawk. This is the Hawk bracket. I just cut a big groove in it to clear the water fitting in the water manifold so I could move the heater hose from the rear of the head up to the water manifold where it is on the Lark or the Hawk without AC. This bracket mounts on 3 water manifold bolts, 1 water outlet bolt and 1 oil fill tube bolt. Basically anything they could find. You have to remove the Idler and reach through it's mounting slot to access 2 of the bolts. The alternator adjust arm bolts to the AC compressor bracket.

    IMG_0803.jpgIMG_0806.jpg

    This is the bracket I carved from angle iron to adapt a Sanden compressor in place of the York one. Note the groove cut out. You can buy a similar bracket for about $50, but a foot of 2" angle a drill and grinder will save that for parts you can't make.
    IMG_0808.jpgIMG_0801.jpgIMG_0797.jpgIMG_0798.jpg

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    Ben I like your work!!,,a man named Ed Burris made a device to better adjust the belt on Studebaker Avantis, I wonder who has installed his modified belt adjuster??
    Quote Originally Posted by bensherb View Post
    All the pics I can find of Avanti's with AC have Sanden type compressors on them, but they were mounted in the same place as my Hawk. This is the Hawk bracket. I just cut a big groove in it to clear the water fitting in the water manifold so I could move the heater hose from the rear of the head up to the water manifold where it is on the Lark or the Hawk without AC. This bracket mounts on 3 water manifold bolts, 1 water outlet bolt and 1 oil fill tube bolt. Basically anything they could find. You have to remove the Idler and reach through it's mounting slot to access 2 of the bolts. The alternator adjust arm bolts to the AC compressor bracket.

    IMG_0803.jpgIMG_0806.jpg

    This is the bracket I carved from angle iron to adapt a Sanden compressor in place of the York one. Note the groove cut out. You can buy a similar bracket for about $50, but a foot of 2" angle a drill and grinder will save that for parts you can't make.
    IMG_0808.jpgIMG_0801.jpgIMG_0797.jpgIMG_0798.jpg

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    If anybody has pictures of Ed's upgrade, I'd sure like to see.

    Ken

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawklover View Post
    Ben I like your work!!,,a man named Ed Burris made a device to better adjust the belt on Studebaker Avantis, I wonder who has installed his modified belt adjuster??

  15. #15
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    It is still sitting in the bag I purchased from him, not the easiest device to install....involves cutting the steel bracket somewhat.
    Quote Originally Posted by spokejr View Post
    If anybody has pictures of Ed's upgrade, I'd sure like to see.

    Ken

  16. #16
    Silver Hawk Member bezhawk's Avatar
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    If you are not doing a judged restoration, the best thing you can do is ditch the York for a sanden compressor. Lighter, More efficient, and Better looking, and less of a drag on the engine. (less HP to run)
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    Brad, I would agree if one were converting to 134A....but if one is sticking with R-12, why bother??...bracket changes, hoses etc....
    Quote Originally Posted by bezhawk View Post
    If you are not doing a judged restoration, the best thing you can do is ditch the York for a sanden compressor. Lighter, More efficient, and Better looking, and less of a drag on the engine. (less HP to run)

  18. #18
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    Last information had him living at 5342 Harris Circle Dunwoody, Georgia, owns '64 Avanti R-5522
    Quote Originally Posted by spokejr View Post
    If anybody has pictures of Ed's upgrade, I'd sure like to see.

    Ken
    Last edited by Hawklover; 08-18-2018 at 12:56 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawklover View Post
    The compressor on my car is 25 plus years old, oil is leaking out in great amounts...so ordered a new York from 4-seasons....I am keeping the system R12, but swallowed a bit hard when given the price......a bit over $400.00, let me tell you the brackets as engineered by Studebaker for the Avanti are well just say I can't use the words I would like to....and that belt tension-er....what kind of engineering is that POS???
    Your money, your choice.

    But for $400 you could buy a new Sanden/Sanyo which will come with a new clutch, then add all new hoses, belts, R134a refrigerant, new dryer, and you'd have a completely new system under the hood. It would use a bit less HP and will cool at least as well as the York. Total less than $400.

    Then sell your supply of R12, and use the money to take your significant other out to dinner.

  20. #20
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    All you say are good salient points! But......I do not want to go through the PC BS of selling(on E-Bay) all of the R12 I have, the hassle of shipping etc.Additionally I already installed a re-built receiver/dryer and a new discharge hose. The car is utilized about three months out of the year during the summer,the other nine she sits covered up in the garage. Candidly I just want to keep the car as it was built to a point. As to your point of replacing all the hoses, I just do not want to go through the hassle of taking them out and bringing to a place like Moreland Hose here in New York to make up a complete new set.....each hose will be about $100.00. Then I would have to purchase new brackets....and who knows what else. As I previously said, you make good legitimate points, I'll let the next owner tend to that....which may be soon as I have had the car since 1966:-)
    Quote Originally Posted by jnormanh View Post
    Your money, your choice.

    But for $400 you could buy a new Sanden/Sanyo which will come with a new clutch, then add all new hoses, belts, R134a refrigerant, new dryer, and you'd have a completely new system under the hood. It would use a bit less HP and will cool at least as well as the York. Total less than $400.

    Then sell your supply of R12, and use the money to take your significant other out to dinner.
    Last edited by Hawklover; 08-18-2018 at 04:24 PM.

  21. #21
    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    My new Sanden compressor, condensor, drier and all the hoses came to less than $200. I made the bracket to adapt the Sanden to the york mount but they can be had for about $50. You can get a Sanden compressor for R12 too. I think they're even cheaper too because nobody wants them.
    Last edited by bensherb; 08-19-2018 at 06:36 PM.

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    A new Studebaker condenser for the Avanti is about $1000.00 alone, I applaud your ability to make brackets etc....just too much forme at this time:-(
    Quote Originally Posted by bensherb View Post
    My new Sanden compressor, condenser, drier and all the hoses came to less then $200. I made the bracket to adapt the Sanden to the york mount but they can be had for about $50. You can get a Sanden compressor for R12 too. I think they're even cheaper too because nobody wants them.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawklover View Post
    A new Studebaker condenser for the Avanti is about $1000.00 alone, I applaud your ability to make brackets etc....just too much forme at this time:-(
    New condenser? Naw. The condenser doesn't care whether it's on R-134a or R12. I've switched back and forth using the same condenser, evaporator and compressor, changing only the oil.

  24. #24
    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnormanh View Post
    New condenser? Naw. The condenser doesn't care whether it's on R-134a or R12. I've switched back and forth using the same condenser, evaporator and compressor, changing only the oil.
    Very true. I changed it because I was changing to a different style fitting and it was just easier. $1000 for a condenser? That's crazy! I guess that's the cost of keeping everything stock. I think the largest generic one that could possibly be made to fit the Hawk was about $60. The one I opted for is larger than the one I replaced but easily fit and was around $40.

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