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Thread: '51 Land Cruiser

  1. #81
    Golden Hawk Member mbstude's Avatar
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    Alright, so the problem I'm having with the brakes is that the pedal travel is too far. It has to be pressed almost halfway down, or a little more, before the brakes engage. This morning I removed the "generic" Corvette-style master cylinder and replaced it with a new OEM MC for a '70 Corvette. While it was apart, I reworked the Turner MC mount, as it was made incorrectly and had the pushrod going into the MC at an angle. Once that was sorted out and the new MC installed, I bled the system, and, same thing. Way too much pedal travel before the brakes engaged.

    In an attempt to rule things out, I removed the front line from the MC and put a plug in it, so that when I pressed the pedal, only the rear brakes would engage. That gave me a rock solid pedal feel, and the pedal only had to be pressed down about 1/2" before it engaged. That told me that the issue was with the front calipers. I pulled the front wheels off, and the first thing I noticed was that the bleeder screw on the caliper was lower than the flex line. Not sure how I didn't notice this before. But.. No wonder I can't get a proper pedal height out of this setup, I wasn't getting all of the air out of the calipers.

    I called a mechanic friend who's dealt with this kit before, and his suggestion was to remove the caliper, put a block of wood between the pads, angle the caliper in such a way that the bleeder screw was at the highest point, and bleed it that way. As I began to remove the caliper, I noticed that the braided stainless flex line that was supplied with the kit was leaking where the fitting was crimped on.

    That was my breaking point. I removed the calipers, brackets, and the grease seal adapter from the spindle. Then I walked across the yard to the local Studebaker Parts Depot and grabbed everything needed for a '54 and up 11" drum setup.

    So, there! I finally fixed my disc brake issue.

    Last edited by mbstude; 02-10-2019 at 09:17 PM.

  2. #82
    President Member 62champ's Avatar
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    Looks good Matt - hope you got some finned drums for a little auto-crossing...

    As many people who do not like their drum brakes on their 1954 and later Studebaker - they should be allowed to drive a '53 and earlier four door V8 with their original brakes. My father said the second time my Uncle had to put his '52 hardtop in the ditch because he almost ran over someone coming up behind them pretty fast, they went to a salvage yard and pulled the brakes off a '54-later Studebaker and replace both ends - no more issues after that (think that was 1957 or 58).

  3. #83
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    How could he run over someone coming up BEHIND him pretty fast??

  4. #84
    President Member 62champ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim333 View Post
    How could he run over someone coming up BEHIND him pretty fast??
    According to himself and other who knew him, the only time he drove the speed limit was in town - and in rural Texas, you can catch farm trucks/older drivers pretty fast when they are driving 25 to 40 on the road. Those earlier brakes were not good at getting a car from 80 to 25 in a short amount of space...

  5. #85
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    I reread it, sorry. He did say coming up behind THEM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim333 View Post
    I reread it, sorry. He did say coming up behind THEM.
    It is part of the English language. It depends on if you read it as; he was coming up behind them (the intent) or someone was coming up behind him. I believe that in the "coming up behind them", the them refers to the "someone" and not to the "he". "...He almost ran over someone coming up behind them pretty fast..." Not an English language expert, or even close, but that is how I see it. I do believe that it could have been stated with less ambiguity.
    Last edited by studegary; 02-10-2019 at 11:15 AM. Reason: took out space + attempted to clarify
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

  7. #87
    President Member 62champ's Avatar
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    Sorry Matt - did not mean to hijack your thread with my inability to share information in a clear way.

    Did have a question - does it matter if the nut/washers are inside the drum or outside? Only reason I ask is when breaking down the drums on my 7E5 last summer, I remember the bolts going in from the backing plate side and the nut/washer being on the spindle side.


  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by 62champ View Post
    Did have a question - does it matter if the nut/washers are inside the drum or outside? Only reason I ask is when breaking down the drums on my 7E5 last summer, I remember the bolts going in from the backing plate side and the nut/washer being on the spindle side.
    I checked the car shop manuals that I have and found that the 51-52 shop manual only has a picture of the rear and does show the bolt heads on the drum side. The 53-54 manual only shows the rear and shows the nuts and washers on the drum side. All the car shop manuals covering 55-64 have pictures of both front and rear and shows the nuts and washers on the drum side.

    Cliff

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    53 Commander Hardtop project
    SE Washington State

  9. #89
    President Member Jerry Forrester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by studegary View Post
    It is part of the English language. It depends on if you read it as; he was coming up behind them (the intent) or someone was coming up behind him. I believe that in the "coming up behind them", the them refers to the "someone" and not to the "he". "...He almost ran over someone coming up behind them pretty fast..." Not an English language expert, or even close, but that is how I see it. I do believe that it could have been stated with less ambiguity.
    Well, I'm glad we got that straight. I've been worrying about it all day. I'm sure I'll be able to sleep better tonight.
    Jerry Forrester
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  10. #90
    Golden Hawk Member mbstude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim333 View Post
    How could he run over someone coming up BEHIND him pretty fast??
    Quote Originally Posted by studegary View Post
    It is part of the English language. It depends on if you read it as; he was coming up behind them (the intent) or someone was coming up behind him. I believe that in the "coming up behind them", the them refers to the "someone" and not to the "he". "...He almost ran over someone coming up behind them pretty fast..." Not an English language expert, or even close, but that is how I see it. I do believe that it could have been stated with less ambiguity.
    With utmost respect, guys... The intent of this thread is for me to share what I'm doing with my Studebaker. This is, after all, a Studebaker forum. I'd really appreciate it if this thread stayed on topic. Thank you.
    Last edited by mbstude; 02-10-2019 at 07:03 PM.

  11. #91
    Golden Hawk Member mbstude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 62champ View Post
    Did have a question - does it matter if the nut/washers are inside the drum or outside?
    I think every Stude I've worked on (or at least had the drums off of) had the backing plate nuts and washers on the drum side. Does it matter? I doubt it.

    I finished up the brake job on the '51 today. For real this time. I retained the dual MC, and changed out the residual check valve to the proper one to use with drums instead of discs. Bled the air out of the system, adjusted the shoes, and almost like magic.. The car STOPS. The pedal height is high and firm as it should be, and it doesn't require both feet to stop the car.

    Since the supplier has no interest in accepting any returns for their products, as frustrating as my experience has been, I did find it satisfying when I tossed the disc kit onto the scrap pile today. It's the little victories...

    On another note.. I fixed the car's "going downhill" stance. The spring shackle on the left is an NOS part for a '51 Commander. The one on the right is what someone installed on this car. Some cars look good with the rear end higher than the front.. A stock-looking '51 four door sedan isn't one of them.

    Last edited by mbstude; 02-10-2019 at 09:08 PM.

  12. #92
    President Member 62champ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbstude View Post
    I think every Stude I've worked on (or at least had the drums off of) had the backing plate nuts and washers on the drum side. Does it matter? I doubt it.
    Beginning to think the same - the truck shop manual shows it both ways - maybe it was up to which ever employee was installing them during their shift...

    Quote Originally Posted by mbstude View Post
    On another note.. I fixed the car's "going downhill" stance. Some cars look good with the rear end higher than the front.. A stock-looking '51 four door sedan isn't one of them.
    Bet someone wanted that "Avanti rake" Need to have some side comparison shots now - keep us updated - always enjoy your posts.

  13. #93
    Golden Hawk Member mbstude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 62champ View Post
    Need to have some side comparison shots now - keep us updated - always enjoy your posts.
    I had planned to do that, but it’ll have to wait for a day when it isn’t raining.

    And thanks! I think this forum would be a bit more enjoyable if there were others that posted about working on their cars, instead of arguing over grammar. I’m looking forward to more progress posts on your Champ.

  14. #94
    Commander Member 4hawks's Avatar
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    Nice... The cars looking great!
    1959 4E2D 498 Studebaker Scotsman 4X4

    http://www.napco4x4.org/gallery/m80-...-protype1.html

  15. #95
    President Member (S)'s Avatar
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    I was taught shouldered bolts are meant to be installed so the shoulder is 'through' the meat of the metal in order to stabilize the secondary part. They are the same length either way, but its about the bolt head being more stable against the forging rather than stamped steel.

    Matt, your car will ride better with proper shackles, and it should also be more balanced so it should brake better......

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