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Thread: Electric Fuel pump for priming needs ONLY

  1. #1
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    Electric Fuel pump for priming needs ONLY

    Hello Members/ Owners--- An Elec fuel pump, I understand, assists priming/ starting-- What all is needed-----is it just a pump and a fuse --or are there other key components items needed to complete installation.......The effort is not for vapor lock abatement....Thank U all...

  2. #2
    President Member thunderations's Avatar
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    Need a switch. Pump should be located as close to the tank as possible, as electric pumps push better then they pull. Nice part of having the electric as a back-up, is that it will solve a vapor lock problem if one arises, plus the ability to prime the carburetor if the car has not been driven for awhile.
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    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    This one looks like the kind I bought. I used the low pressure one so as not to need a fuel pressure regulator.

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    President Member nvonada's Avatar
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    I would use a momentary contact switch so you don't forget and leave it on. Or you can take the simpler approach and put a rubber priming bulb from an outboard motor fuel line in there. A couple of squeezes and you should be good to go. Just don't put it near anything hot.

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    Electric fuel pumps are novelty I do like novelties, I have a V8 in my 54 Champion, I have two fuel sediment glass bowels, I have two 6 volt batteries wired independently to the starter, I have a push button starter, I have fog lights, these are all novelties. I purchased an electric fuel pump some years ago however never installed it because I could not determine any advantage therefore it still sits in the original box. I bought some parts one time and in the mix there was a box of vacuum fuel pumps, most had compromised diaphragms. I purchased several new rebuild kits and replaced the insides of the several of the failed units. To test the fuel pumps I attached a hose to the inlet and into a container of solvent and with 3-4 strokes the fuel would squirt 6-8 feet with gusto. I have one of the fuel pumps on my V8. I had removed the fuel delivery system from the pump to the carb for some maintenance and after I reinstalled it, it only took a few cranking revolutions to refill the two fuel bowels and fire the engine. I still like the novelty of an electric fuel pump but I still feel it will do no more than the vacuum pump (in good condition). Even after sitting a while my vacuum pump comes to life immediately. However for an instant start I do have a squeeze bottle handy.

    Somewhat earlier in the life of this project I was plagued with starting problems, I had a ground problem with my starter, too small a wire size, weak fuel pump and a pin hole in the fuel line from the tank and I was looking very seriously at an electric fuel pump and it would have most likely solved all my problems at the time. All sound components was the best cure.

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    I think with today's lousy gas a primer pump is a great scheme. I would be very careful to purchase one that allows "flow-thru" so when you shut the electric one off the manual pump can pull gas thru it. Not all electric pumps allow this you can waste a lot of time on installation that must be repeated; don't ask how I know this !

    BTW, I love to buy from Studebaker International but there electric pump has almost zero info on voltage, Positivre-negative ground or flow thru and no one there can describe what they are selling.

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    Our '50 champion was plagued by vapor lock during the hot months until I installed an electric pump on it as an assist. Anytime we made a quick pit stop in really hot weather I'd flip the switch & then no worries.
    Mike Sal

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    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    I'm using a pump like the one Roy posted the link for, it works well. Easy to install, black wire to - red wire to +. Mounted to frame just forward of rear spring mount. TIP: empty fuel tank before cutting fuel line!
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    nov·el·ty
    noun


    • 1.
      the quality of being new, original, or unusual.
    • 2.
      a small and inexpensive toy or ornament.

    Any electric fuel pump is NOT a novelty. Many cars came with them (exclusively) over 50 years ago. My 1965 Sunbeam Tiger for one. They are for some a necessity, for others (priming) a convinience.

    There is not an argument that a mechanical fuel pump is insufficient (and its function needs to be defended). It has to do with infrequent use, modern gas that evaporates quickly and avoiding excessive cranking on the battery/starter to refill the float bowls. An electric fuel pump is a very practical means of overcoming those problems that is inexpensive and easy to install. Many have stated that they only use it to prime the carburetor and not as a constant method of supplying fuel to the carburetor (though in a mechanical pump failure it is an immediate back up).
    '64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-98 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.

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    President Member 48skyliner's Avatar
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    I recently installed an electric pump in my 1980 Ford truck, because it was losing the fuel when it sat for more than a few days, and would not self prime with the mechanical pump. I switch the pump on for about thirty seconds, a few pumps of the throttle and it starts every time. After it runs for a minute or two, I turn off the pump.

    This truck has no fuel return flow back to the tank, so it is ESSENTIAL that the electric pump be turned off when the engine is shut down. Without a fuel return flow, the pump would run with no fuel flow to cool the electric motor, and it would just get hotter and hotter, a serious fire hazard. Be sure to get the power from a source that turns off when you switch off the ignition, in case you forget to turn off the switch.

    I have several vehicles with fuel injection, all Japanese, and the fuel pressure is regulated by controlling the fuel flow back to the tank. Any vapor that would form would be pumped back to the tank. Not sure about American cars, but some German cars have no return flow. Perhaps any vapor gets pushed through the injectors - this did not get covered in my physics class.
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    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    Electric fuel pumps have been used for decades, and it wasn't until relitively recently that the "return" line to the tank was added as a regular thing. It may be required for fuel injection as a way to control fuel volume and pressure very closely. With a single carb on a "street" car you just need a low pressure pump of low to moderate volume. Ideally, the lowest pressure you can get with enough volume to keep the float bowl full under all driving conditions. In the late 70's/early 80's I built several cars with electric pumps with only normal fuel volume requirements, with no return line, and never encountered problems with any of them. On a few (not really street cars) with large fuel requirments and high volume pumps I did use return lines to maintain volume and control pressure. All used carburetors then.

  12. #12
    Golden Hawk Member rockne10's Avatar
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    For priming the carb you will need a momentary switch, such as a button or spring-loaded toggle so the pump isn't running unless you intentionally engage it. In my '51 with A/D the starter switch is mounted under the dash next to the hood release handle. I simply mounted a momentary switch on the same bracket just above and left of the starter switch.

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    Perhaps "accessory" is a more appropriate term to describe an electric fuel pump installation on a Studebaker as no Studebakers had electric fuel pumps installed at the factory. Yes there are many factory built cars with electric fuel pumps however this is a Studebaker forum. There are many forum members who have never experienced a vapor lock and many have. I still feel that that the fuel management issues are mostly caused from compromised cooling systems and inefficient vacuum pumps. The vacuum pumps I have tested will deliver 3-4 times the fuel required. I have installed two sediment bowels (just because I had them) one is an accessory. The car can sit for weeks and the two bowels stay full.DSC08809.JPG

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    Quote Originally Posted by altair View Post
    Perhaps "accessory" is a more appropriate term to describe an electric fuel pump installation on a Studebaker as no Studebakers had electric fuel pumps installed at the factory. Yes there are many factory built cars with electric fuel pumps however this is a Studebaker forum. There are many forum members who have never experienced a vapor lock and many have. I still feel that that the fuel management issues are mostly caused from compromised cooling systems and inefficient vacuum pumps. The vacuum pumps I have tested will deliver 3-4 times the fuel required. I have installed two sediment bowels (just because I had them) one is an accessory. The car can sit for weeks and the two bowels stay full.DSC08809.JPG
    Quite certain that if you left your car sitting for a few weeks here in the Arizona desert heat your float bowl would be dry due to accelerated evaporation of today's fuels. If you had a sealed fuel system like fuel injection this would not be a problem but since our Studes didn't come that way you might find an electric pump to prime your empty float bowl more of a necessity than an asccessory. Guess it all depends on which type of climate your vehicle is in.

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    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by altair View Post
    Perhaps "accessory" is a more appropriate term to describe an electric fuel pump installation on a Studebaker as no Studebakers had electric fuel pumps installed at the factory. Yes there are many factory built cars with electric fuel pumps however this is a Studebaker forum. There are many forum members who have never experienced a vapor lock and many have. I still feel that that the fuel management issues are mostly caused from compromised cooling systems and inefficient vacuum pumps. The vacuum pumps I have tested will deliver 3-4 times the fuel required. I have installed two sediment bowels (just because I had them) one is an accessory. The car can sit for weeks and the two bowels stay full.
    You must get better fuel than we do in California. Here my AFB carb will have an empty float bowl 1 hour after parking it with a hot engine/compartment. As mentioned it might have a bit to do with the weather, the lowest daytime temp we've seen in over a month was 97F; 103 today. I've never had any problem with vapor lock, I just don't like cranking incessantly for starting.

    In fact the fuel's so bad here, I fill my '96 Harley at the gas station 2 miles from home when comming home. A week later before leaving home it's down 1/4 tank from evaporation. If I buy it and burn it I get 57 mpg, if it sits a week I get 36 mpg.

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    President Member LeoH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stall View Post
    I think with today's lousy gas a primer pump is a great scheme. I would be very careful to purchase one that allows "flow-thru" so when you shut the electric one off the manual pump can pull gas thru it. Not all electric pumps allow this you can waste a lot of time on installation that must be repeated; don't ask how I know this !

    BTW, I love to buy from Studebaker International but there electric pump has almost zero info on voltage, Positivre-negative ground or flow thru and no one there can describe what they are selling.

    Murray
    Another issue with the electric fuel pump from SI? It's a 5# and higher pump, which is fine for a V8, but too much pressure for the 6s. Also, for those few of us with Studes as daily drivers, there is a problem now with getting an off the shelf new/reman mechanical fuel pump now, so unless you have a backup mechanical pump ready to go, you either have to go with the electric pump or sit around and wait for a kit and have your mechanical pump rebuilt. At least for the 170 sixes.

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    I'm kinda happy with my swap to an electric (only) pump. The gas in my Hawk's carb would expand and flood the engine when I shut it off hot and refuse to start unless I left it for a half hour. With an electric Carter P60504 (Fred Buchholz tells me it's been replaced by Carter P90091) wired in I can control fuel delivery. I wired one side of a toggle for prime, the other side for run (through a oil pressure switch) and I use the off position and sit for 10-15 seconds at idle, lowering the level in the float bowl before shutoff. She starts right up after that last hot shutoff with no additional gas pedal action.

    I can understand why many on the forum want to keep systems on their cars as original as possible, but there's still plenty of other areas left to maintain when you don't need to worry about points and mechanical fuel pumps.

  18. #18
    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    That's a good point about shutting off the fuel to lower the carb level. My 50 Champion has the same boiling problem during short stops.

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    Never have problems with my 57 Commander or 36 Ford with carbs and fuel pumps rebuilt with updated kits. Drove the 57 yesterday in 92 degree heat to a car show 71 miles each way.

  20. #20
    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    That's what's confusing. My 50 Champion has boiling gas problems during short stops, but my 50 Land Cruiser does fine. The gas evaporates if either car sets for a couple weeks, so the Land Cruiser needs to crank for about 10 seconds to fill the carb. My Champion has an electric pump, but I might rebuild the mechanical with new materials and reinstall it.

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    I put a small electric pump on my M series to prime carb .Also found my stock pump was putting out 9 PSI. So I put a regulator close to carb . (carb recommends 5 PSI ) I have switch going thru a fuse to pump . Has worked perfectly for last 3 years .
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  22. #22
    President Member blackhawk61's Avatar
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    will an edelbrock 17301 pump work as a "pull thru" pump to be used just for priming ?
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    President Member 345 DeSoto's Avatar
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    The Edelbrock 17301 is a pull through type pump. If you wish to leave it on, you'll need an accurate Fuel Pressure Regulator...
    Last edited by 345 DeSoto; 02-10-2019 at 09:18 AM.

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    General question: What pressure is okay using the electric fuel pump? I am using an electric fuel pump on my Hawk 289 two barrel carb and wonder if the electric pump might be dumping too much fuel in the carb. but then again I suppose it would flood out.

  25. #25
    President Member blackhawk61's Avatar
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    Thanks for your reply. I only want to use it to prime and then turn it off.
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    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    I hate to even get started on this subject as I know we have mostly Pro-Electric Fuel Pump Members here.

    My situation in a Colder climate than some, may differ BUT:
    I have never had Vapor lock problems or been concerned by a little bit of cold cranking on my V8 Studes.

    I happen to LIKE getting some Oil moving and Pressure up, before firing longer than a week standing Engines.
    My OEM, Original Carter rebuilt Pumps always deliver with no problem and no need for any stink'n Electric.

    I do not overheat or damage Batteries or Starters by using 10 to 15 second starter intervals until Oil Pressure is up and the Engine starts. That is what a good Battery and Generator or Alternator is for.
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  27. #27
    President Member 345 DeSoto's Avatar
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    I have to regulate my pressure to 2 1/2 - 3 lbs or else it will overpower the needle/seat in my Edelbrock 1404....

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    Not another primer for a hand grenade..?!
    Do some simple homework and follow the trail of where the fuel goes...and the POSSIBLE...problems that may occur.

    Mike

  29. #29
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    If you use a British SU electric fuel pump, they will be the correct pressure for our cars, about 2-3psi. I've had Rovers and MGBs. A lot of people on the British Forums use the Faucet fuel pumps.

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  30. #30
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    Ben hit on a point worth noting. The quality of fuel in BC is just different then what we have just a few miles south of the border. It may have changed since. I don't own any antique car with an electric fuel pump. When at home I'm usually quite cautious about using non-ethanol fuel. A number of years ago I had my 63 Daytona on Vancouver Island(people not familiar think Victoria). Filled up with N/E fuel in the Seattle area. Fueled up on the island and toured extensively on the Overdrive tour. Drove home and sustained a long wait at the border, all without vapor-lock. Back on the US side stopped for lunch still no problems. Stopped for gas just south of Bellingham, within two miles vapor-lock. As long as I kept moving no problems, stop and vapor-lock. Fuel was very expensive up there, but it beat the hell out of having to deal with V/L.

  31. #31
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    One opinion: Electric fuel pumps are miles netter than mechanical. Turn the ign on, and they pump fuel. No more dry fuel lines and carbs. No more failed diaphragms. No more fuel leakage into the oil. No more vapor lock. And you can buy a decent quality one fore $20.

    Mechanical fuel pumps belong in the dust bin along with points/coil ign, vacuum wipers, tube radios, tubed bias-ply tires, plain steel exhausts, and all the other stuff that fails every few years.

    I know - DUCK! INCOMING!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnormanh View Post
    ... I know - DUCK! INCOMING!
    Actually I'll help hoist the flag. It is very little cost to make the irregular driving periods of an old car more pleasant. I use the cheap cube type (looks like a transformer with an inlet/outlet). They need not be left on after priming if you have a mechanical also installed as they seem to "pass through" fuel just fine. Somewhat related I have a '73 Pinto with an '88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe engine equipped with multi port injection from the factory. The car sits for great lengths of time. A couple of 2 second key-"On's" and the car NEVER fails to start - immediately.
    '64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-98 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.

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    I do not think it was mentioned, but you really want a self priming pump. A vane type will work just fine as long as there is gas in the line but if it sits a long time or you run out of gas, you will need to prime it. That kinda negates the whole point of having one. I purchased Bosch pumps for a carbureted mid 80's Honda for less than $40 last year. They are mechanical, pressure is perfect, ,and they self-prime. They should even last a while (or am I being irrationally optimistic again?) Toggle switch to acc terminal on nearby switch. I fused it but.. If you use a momentary switchn you will be really annoyed when your mechanical pump goes out.!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffry Cassel View Post
    I do not think it was mentioned, but you really want a self priming pump. A vane type will work just fine as long as there is gas in the line but if it sits a long time or you run out of gas, you will need to prime it. That kinda negates the whole point of having one. I purchased Bosch pumps for a carbureted mid 80's Honda for less than $40 last year. They are mechanical, pressure is perfect, ,and they self-prime. They should even last a while (or am I being irrationally optimistic again?) Toggle switch to acc terminal on nearby switch. I fused it but.. If you use a momentary switchn you will be really annoyed when your mechanical pump goes out.!
    Bosch 69562

    https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-69562-E.../dp/B000BZIDLC

    I've used them on everything from a Studebaker V8 to a Honda Goldwing. Hasn't failed me yet!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Presidenté View Post
    Bosch 69562

    https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-69562-E.../dp/B000BZIDLC

    I've used them on everything from a Studebaker V8 to a Honda Goldwing. Hasn't failed me yet!
    I searched and searched but could not find out what the output fuel pressure is on the Bosch 69562 fuel pump that was recommended about a month ago. I did find that this Bosch pump fits a 1983 Honda Accord, but I know nothing about Hondas. Looks like a nice and inexpensive modern fuel pump, but I need to be certain it will work with my 63 Avanti. Thanks for any help on my question.

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