Fuel System: 2 barrel to a 4 barrel?

[Russk]

My father in-laws 64 V8 Commander has some running issues, He loves driving it but wants to make it more trustworthy. He wants a 4barrel carb in place of the two barrel it has now. I found a intake but it is from a 56 model and I'm not sure it will work. Any suggestions.

[thunderations]

The 2 barrel manifold can be re-machined to accept a 4 barrel. You can have any good machine shop do it or if you're handy, do it yourself. Just get the new 4 barrel and use the gasket to mark the pattern needed to cut out and the location of the mounting studs. There are also members that do this on an exchange basis and they may join into the conversation.

[Russk]

I seen where they do that, I could most likely do it myself, I would rather just replace it if I can. I do see one from a 56 for sale, dont know if there are any changes from then till 64.

[altair]

The manifold will fit and there are about 500 models of AFBs that will fit. Some have different choke heater arrangements and some may have different throttle arrangements. Most of these will fitissues can be overcome with some minor adjustments. I have a 63 V8 that was originally fitted with a 2 barrel and I replaced the manifold with a 4 barrel there were a great number of models that would fit I settled with an AFB from a 64 Buick that had the same choke heater arrangement and optional throttle arrangement that also fit. There are several AFB options out there. Even the new models will fit.

[bensherb]

I think your '64 manifold will be the easiest to convert to a 4 barrel manifold as it should be just a matter of drilling 6 holes and tapping four of them. The Edelbrock 1406 seems to be a the choice of many who prefer the AFB carb. I currently have an AFB from a '65 Pontiac, (it's all but identical to the R1 carb) It works well, but will be swapping it for the Holley 1900/1901. It is a remake of the Thermoquad, the carb that replaced the AFB decades ago. Many have gone to it with good results.

[DieselJim]

Jeff Rice is also in Georgia and has the manifold all ready modified for the Edelbrock carb.

[52-fan]

I don't think anyone has mentioned that the 56 manifold you are considering is not made for an AFB. You would still need an adapter or some machine work. Either manifold can be made to work.

[tsenecal]

Unless the 64 manifold is different, it will require a lot more than drilling new holes, and tapping them. When I converted mine, the entire surface had to be milled down to a level plane. Then mark the surface with your four barrel gasket. Then remove all of the cast material from the new four barrel bores. Then drill and tap the four holes.

[DEEPNHOCK]

My father in-laws 64 V8 Commander has some running issues, He loves driving it but wants to make it more trustworthy. He wants a 4barrel carb in place of the two barrel it has now. I found a intake but it is from a 56 model and I'm not sure it will work. Any suggestions.

Here's what you will run into.
(1) Your old WCFB 4 bbl intake manifold can be modified to accept a late model AFB.
The changes you need to make are:
(A) Open up the secondary throttle bore holes in the intake (off the car) to clear the carb secondary throttle blades.
(or......)
Add a Mr. Gasket stacked carb insulator carb gasket set (Mr. Gasket p/n# 98)

This will allow the throttle blades to clear....but.. There will be a nasty 'step' for the fuel/air to get past. It will work, but it is not ideal.
Also.. This 'stack' lifts the carb enough to clear the GM kickdown arm on the AFB throttle shaft.
If that shaft hits the heat crossover casting on the intake, you will need to trim the arm (see pic)



(B) You will need to lengthen the stock throttle arm a little bit as the 4bbl primary throttle shaft is slightly forward of the 2bbl (if that is the conversion you are doing).
If you are going from a WCFB to an AFB it should be good as is.

(C) If you are only driving in nice weather, then you should consider blocking off the heat crossover passage.
This requires wiring open/gutting the heat riser valve under the RHS exhaust manifold.
A composite intake gasket with the heat riser port uncut (and a stainless steel plate to protect the gasket) will be needed.

(D) If this is more than you want to bite off, you can buy an AFB ready conversion manifold (made from a late model Studebaker 2bbl intake core*) from a vendor that stocks them, as well as an intake manifold installation kit that has the above mentioned parts in it..
(note*) An 'early' 2bbl cast iron intake manifold cannot be converted to a 4bbl)

Makes for a nice upgrade that improves driveability. Nothing wrong with the stock stuff. This is just an alternative.

[Colgate Studebaker]

What Jeff didn't tell you is that he is the master of all things discussed here. He has the parts you need for sale and his work is impeccable, and it won't cost you an arm and a leg. Bill

[jclary]

My father in-laws 64 V8 Commander has some running issues, He loves driving it but wants to make it more trustworthy. He wants a 4barrel carb in place of the two barrel it has now. I found a intake but it is from a 56 model and I'm not sure it will work. Any suggestions.

In regard to the four-barrel conversion, Jeff's solution is a blessing unless you are a machinist, have the equipment, and take pride in the challenge of inventing your own wheels.

But let's be honest...how is this going to make the vehicle more trustworthy? I have owned vehicles with just about every fuel delivery option made. However, with carburetors, single, two, or four barrel...given proper care, condition, and operation as designed, I can't think of one being more trustworthy over the other. However, being a male, with all the natural tendencies of "maleness"...I liked the idea of the extra punch, potential aggression, performance (real or imagined) provided by the four-barrel. With proper jetting, I understand a four barrel can offer better economy. But, with my tendency to express my testosterone with my accelerator, too often, the economy thing is just an excuse to justify the four-barrel.

Maybe, this is just a minor nitpic...but while being honest regarding motivations...just passive-aggression on my part to point it out.

[tsenecal]

My response was about converting a two barrel manifold, to four barrel. I guess some of you were talking about converting a WCFB, to AFB. I'm pretty easily confused. Jeffs intakes look like the way to go. I modified mine to fit the street demon carb. It seems to run very well so far, but I have not had a lot of drive time, or a chance to dial it in.

[thunderations]

To add insult to injury, after adapting to a 4 barrel carb, a nice set of dual glass pack mufflers tend to make your right foot even heavier so that you can listen to the rumble as the fuel pours through that 4 barrel.

In regard to the four-barrel conversion, Jeff's solution is a blessing unless you are a machinist, have the equipment, and take pride in the challenge of inventing your own wheels.

But let's be honest...how is this going to make the vehicle more trustworthy? I have owned vehicles with just about every fuel delivery option made. However, with carburetors, single, two, or four barrel...given proper care, condition, and operation as designed, I can't think of one being more trustworthy over the other. However, being a male, with all the natural tendencies of "maleness"...I liked the idea of the extra punch, potential aggression, performance (real or imagined) provided by the four-barrel. With proper jetting, I understand a four barrel can offer better economy. But, with my tendency to express my testosterone with my accelerator, too often, the economy thing is just an excuse to justify the four-barrel.

Maybe, this is just a minor nitpic...but while being honest regarding motivations...just passive-aggression on my part to point it out.

[63looks59]

I used a " long nut " avail in different lengths---so lengthen the throttle linkage---- and U have to wire in your electric chock to the ignition S/W
other than that, whats above is excellent advise---- you can do it yourself.....manifolds, get an old AFB manifold , and have it cleaned out.
Machining is costly, shipping an heavy manifold is costly---unless U have to.....

[Mrs K Corbin]

so Jeff, can I just bring you my truck and let you straighten it out? Yeah thats a picture of me thumbing my way home after another Studebaker adventure.....