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Thread: 1962 Lark will not move

  1. #1
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    1962 Lark will not move

    I am slowing resurrecting a 1962 Lark Deluxe 4 door that originally sold new in Tucson. It has been through a few owners since I last saw it in 1995. At the time it ran great.

    When I bought it, it was advertised as great running car. When it came back to Tucson, it would not start: found out why, no battery and no gas. Still working on that but when I put the car in gear to slightly move it, no action. The clutch has a firm action and I opened the hood and moved the levers on the column. Put it in gear but the car is in neutral in Reverse, First, Second, Third. Never had this problem with any standard shift Studebaker.

    Where should I look? Don't have a shop manual now but have access to one. Also have several old Motor's around (somewhere).

    Owner did offer before the sale to refund my money. He did mention that it would not move when in gear. If he took the money back he was going to part the car out. I did not what that to happen so I went through the sale. It is too good a car to part out.

    Hope to get it running in time for the Pacific Southwest Zone meet in Palm Springs

    Bob Miles
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  2. #2
    President Member tsenecal's Avatar
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    I'm no expert, but I would start with checking the clutch disc. You mentioned that it had a firm feel, so it sounds like the pressure plate is alright. If you can access the cover on the flywheel, you could look for clutch 'debris'. Hope you figure it out.

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    Bob, is there a driveshaft?

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    President Member thunderations's Avatar
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    That's my first thought too.............Since it would not move in gear, that would allow it to move no matter what gear it was in.
    Quote Originally Posted by mbstude View Post
    Bob, is there a driveshaft?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderations View Post
    That's my first thought too.............Since it would not move in gear, that would allow it to move no matter what gear it was in.
    Well to be honest, I have not looked under the car. I should in the morning after I get off work. It there is no driveshaft, just another lie the PO told me about the car. I know the 63 models used a different u joint does that mean the shaft may be different? I will let you know.

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    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    A '62 should have Standard Spicer Type "U" Joints with Snap Ring retainers like many 60's Chev. Pickups, not the Mechanics Type, different Front & Rear, with the Split Ring retainers.
    Yes the Shafts and Yokes ARE different on '63's and possibly some early '64's.

    My first thought was: does it have Overdrive?
    That opens lots of possibilities like; the O.D. Shift Lever jammed between IN and Out of O.D.

    Shift Levers at Trans. or under the hood disconnected?

    Is it a Lark Six or Eight?
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    Speedster Member Santosh's Avatar
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    Could you move the car in both directions? Or is it blocked? My Hawk was blocked forward when OD had been pushed (in) when I stopped the engine. (I had to move the car 10 inch back, then I could drive). After I changed the oil in the gearbox it was fine.
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    There is a small tab on the shift tube to select the upper or lower lever. if it is missing the shift lever is usless. also a missing axle key will wreak havoc. try manually putting trans in gear under the hood then bump starter. Luck Doofus

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    Ok after I got off work at 7am went to bed. Woke up and just looked under the car. There is a drive shaft. It is a 259 V8 with Overdrive. The overdrive lever on the dash is pulled all the way out and I cannot move it at all. I guess I will have to get it up in the air to check things out. I will manually move the shift rods to see if I get any movement by bumping the starter. The car did supposedly move just before I bought it.

    I will keep you posted but in the meantime, keep the suggestions coming

    Bob Miles
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  10. #10
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    Do check the shift linkage, they are aluminum and get sloppy over time. I had a 62 gt that had a problem what you describe.

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    Went out this morning and moved the shift rods manually and also checked position with moving the column shifter with the clutch. Same reaction; car will not move bumping the starter or just running the starter. I guess I will have to get the car on jack stands and get under and see if the cable is broken on the overdrive and the lever is half way engaged. As I mention the overdrive cable is all the way out and I cannot move it back in.

    Any other thoughts if that doesn't work?

    Bob Miles
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    The hub in the clutch disc broken, welded flange on the drive shaft broken, or the bolts holding the ring gear are sheared. I have also seen the sun gear break. Had to lock out the od to move.

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    What kind of noises, if any are coming from the tranny, R/A or rear wheels ? If you get it up on stands, then you could isolate where in the drive train your problem might be....

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackb View Post
    What kind of noises, if any are coming from the tranny, R/A or rear wheels ? If you get it up on stands, then you could isolate where in the drive train your problem might be....
    That is the thing that puzzles me. Clutch in, nice and tight no noise. Going through the gears, no noise. Bumping or cranking, no noise. Car acts like it is in neutral with the clutch out and in gear. No noise at all.

    Bob Miles
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    I guess the next step will be to get it up on the jack stands and do an investigation. Will keep you posted.

    Bob Miles
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    Put the shift lever in reverse, engine not running. Get on the ground in a position where you view the drive shaft. Have a helper roll the car to and fro. If the car fails to move more than few inches, the drive line is presumably intact. You will see the drive shaft make a partial turn and then stop as the slack in all the gears is taken up. If the drive shaft spins freely, and the car moves more than a few inches to and fro, then there is a fault in the transmission or clutch. If the driveshaft fails to spin freely, but the car moves, look for a fault in the differential, or a sheared axle key.
    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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    Quote Originally Posted by gordr View Post
    Put the shift lever in reverse, engine not running. Get on the ground in a position where you view the drive shaft. Have a helper roll the car to and fro. If the car fails to move more than few inches, the drive line is presumably intact. You will see the drive shaft make a partial turn and then stop as the slack in all the gears is taken up. If the drive shaft spins freely, and the car moves more than a few inches to and fro, then there is a fault in the transmission or clutch. If the driveshaft fails to spin freely, but the car moves, look for a fault in the differential, or a sheared axle key.
    yeah, its pretty easy to take the differential cover off and check out the insides, right?

  18. #18
    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    creegster,

    There is no need to remove the differential cover UNLESS the driveshaft moves but the wheels do not. A lot of troubleshooting can be done without disassembling things that do not absolutely require disassembly.

    For instance, the OP can turn off the engine and put the car in reverse. That will lock out the overdrive regardless of the position of the cable. Then jack up one rear wheel and try to turn that wheel. If the wheel turns, look at the driveshaft and see if that turns. If the driveshaft turns, the problem is upstream. If the wheel turns, but the driveshaft does not, then the problem is in the rear axle assembly.

    If the wheel does not turn, put it back down and jack up the opposite rear wheel and try the test again. If the wheel turns, look at the driveshaft and see if that turns. If the driveshaft turns, the problem is upstream. If the wheel turns, but the driveshaft does not, then the problem is in the rear axle assembly.

    If you take something apart that does not absolutely need to be taken apart, you run the risk of creating a secondary problem that can mask the original problem. At best, you will have to put it back together again. Worst case is that you make more work for yourself and/or damage parts that were good.

    The process of troubleshooting is to locate the problem with the least amount of impact on the parts of the system that are still good.
    Last edited by RadioRoy; 06-28-2018 at 06:31 PM.
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    Thanks for the great lesson, RadioRoy!

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    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    My pleasure. Always trying to make it easier for folks to enjoy their Studebakers.
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    I might point out that my suggested troubleshooting procedure requires no tools, at least initially. Helper, Mk I, and eyeballs, Mk I are all that's needed.
    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

  22. #22
    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    Gord,
    Of course you are correct in that. And is indeed the simplest test to perform. I should have read your post more carefully.
    We will just have to see what Bob comes up with after making some tests. The problem sounds straightforward, but pretty rare in occurrence, in my estimation.
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    Does it push in neutral? Jack it up and put it on stands and start it and see if the wheels turn. If it stalls right away as you let out the clutch the friction disk is fused to trhe flywheel. I did not drive Pinkie for more then a year twenty some years back and her Hays 12 inch disk had stuck to the flywheel. Finally I resorted to c hocking the wheels and disabling the ignition and bumping the starter to shake it loose.
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    When it cools down to 99 degrees this evening, I will try the one wheel and one wheel test like Roy stated and see what happens. I do know of a few transmission and rear axles around the area if I need either.

    Bob Miles
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  25. #25
    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    As of 9:30 PM, it's down to 88. What did you find?
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    Roy,

    I got a text to go to work at 11pm so I will at 7am find out. At least you have got me in the right direction to see what is wrong. I am also remembering Kelly Marion's 60 Lark that when the clutch was let out, it would barely move so I popped the clutch and the car then started working again. It will be up in the air on the left side 8 tomorrow then the right side to narrow down the problem.

    Thanks Roy

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    Good Morning Roy and everybody.

    Got the jack under the left rear wheel. Shifter in Reverse, engine off. Turned the left rear wheel and the driveshaft did not move. Got the jack under the right wheel, turned the wheel and the drive shaft did not move. Looks like I will be looking for a Dana 27 or 44 with a good rear ratio. (Maybe a 3.92?? but probably a 3.54 or against odds a 4.27). I will start the drums or smoke signals out to find a good rear axle.

    It only took a minute to do each wheel, but 5 minutes to get myself up off the ground.

    Bob Miles
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  28. #28
    President Member Ron Dame's Avatar
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    Jerry Kaiser is not far from you and probably has one.
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  29. #29
    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6hk71400 View Post
    Good Morning Roy and everybody.

    Got the jack under the left rear wheel. Shifter in Reverse, engine off. Turned the left rear wheel and the driveshaft did not move. Got the jack under the right wheel, turned the wheel and the drive shaft did not move. Looks like I will be looking for a Dana 27 or 44 with a good rear ratio. (Maybe a 3.92?? but probably a 3.54 or against odds a 4.27). I will start the drums or smoke signals out to find a good rear axle.

    It only took a minute to do each wheel, but 5 minutes to get myself up off the ground.

    Bob Miles
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    Did the wheels turn easily?

    Just to be clear, you only had one wheel off the ground at a time, right? The test only works with the opposite wheel on the ground.

    Now that you have determined that the problem is in the rear axle assembly, the next step is to determine WHERE in the rear axle assembly the problem is.

    Before jumping to conclusions and looking for another rear axle assembly, there is another test that just might save you lots of time, effort, and money. And we all like to save time, effort, and money, right?

    Take off the hub caps or wheel covers and do the same test again. This time, watch the castle nut on the end of the axle. If the wheel turns, but the nut stands still, then the problem is in the outer portion, where the axle meets the hub/drum. It MIGHT be as simple as someone leaving out the key when reassembling the brakes. If that is the case and the axle taper and hub/drum are not damaged, the fix MIGHT be as simple as pulling the hub/drum and inserting a key properly (with the taper in the proper orientation) in each side.

    If you turn the wheel and the axle nut turns with it, then the problem is in the center differential assembly. That's a bigger deal, but it still COULD be a relatively simple fix. In that case, I would pull the axle shafts and see if the splines are stripped. Pretty unusual, I would think, But maybe. At this point in the test, you can also pull the differential cover and see how it looks inside, paying particular attention to see if bits and pieces are in the bottom of the case.

    My point is that it is still too early to say the entire rear axle assembly is bad and the only thing to do is to replace it.

    Be patient, continue doing the tests, and maybe save yourself a lot of grief.
    Last edited by RadioRoy; 06-30-2018 at 01:41 PM.
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    Tomorrow Morning after work, I will do that. The wheelcovers are already off so I will perform the test again looking to see if the castle nut turns. The left wheel turned easily but the right has a slight resistance. I think that is due to brake adjustment as I could feel and hear a very slight sound coming from the right wheel.

    Again, the previous owner really was not a Studebaker guy even though he has this car and one other that he was selling. By the way he acted and talked, another person that got the cars thinking they could be sold for a quick dollar.

    The quest continues!

    Bob Miles
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    Just a little note... If you change from a 27 rear axle to a 44, you will need a shorter drive shaft. The 44 is significantly larger all around than is the 27.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyOne View Post
    Just a little note... If you change from a 27 rear axle to a 44, you will need a shorter drive shaft. The 44 is significantly larger all around than is the 27.
    Thanks! Tomorrow will see if I need to do that or if as Roy suggests an easy fix with the current axle.

    Bob

  33. #33
    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    Well I don't know about everybody else, but I am on pins and needles awaiting the results. I've never seen a rear axle assembly fail in this manner.
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    Could you put up a video? show us the axle / driveshaft turning / not turning. Show the inside of the diff if you pull the cover off.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioRoy View Post
    Well I don't know about everybody else, but I am on pins and needles awaiting the results. I've never seen a rear axle assembly fail in this manner.
    I have seen more than one Studebaker strip the teeth off the differential gears (one while I was in the car).
    Gary L.
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  36. #36
    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by studegary View Post
    I have seen more than one Studebaker strip the teeth off the differential gears (one while I was in the car).
    Were you driving in a "spirited" fashion?
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioRoy View Post
    Were you driving in a "spirited" fashion?
    No, it was a car that we were flat towing back to the shop and I was in the towed car. As we went along, every so often the differential would hang up and then another tooth broke off until they were all gone.
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  38. #38
    President Member thunderations's Avatar
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    I broke the spider gears and the cast iron housing on my 62 Daytona at the drag strip back in 1966. Had a heck of a time finding any parts that would fit in Fayetteville, NC. Patched it up at the enlisted men's auto shop at Fort Bragg. Babied it home to South Bend and bought an entire TT rear end from a local salvage yard for $25 and bolted it in. OH............lost that race to a Dodge Dart.
    Quote Originally Posted by RadioRoy View Post
    Were you driving in a "spirited" fashion?
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    I went out and repeated the wheel turning test. First thing I noticed that there weren't any cotter pins in the caster nut. That tells me that someone at sometime had the brake drums off. I turned the right wheel with the left one solid on the ground. The caster nut turned with the wheel and I repeated the other side with the same result. Car still in reverse. Caster nut turns on both wheels.

    Bruce Sandburg has a super duper drum puller for both cars and trucks made from a truck drum hub with additional spaced holes drilled to work on any Studebaker. I will borrow that later this week and see about what caused this to happen. Again no noise at all when turning the wheels. I was hoping it was as simple as a woodruff key but I will know later. I have access to a 27 free to use. The ratio is low on it but it would make the Lark a peppy performer and with overdrive the ratio would be about 3.08 with the 30 percent reduction.

    Bob Miles
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  40. #40
    President Member Jerry Forrester's Avatar
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    My guess is a broken axle.
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