Brakes: mysterious binding issue - M5 pickup

[tedtaylor]

SYMPTOM: front brakes bind, apply brakes, come to stop, stuck on, binding going forward. need to back up - brake, then they are released.

REPLICATED: I jack front end up, forward rotation of wheel by hand, wife applies brakes then foot off pedal. I can NOT rotate wheel forward, it is still locked up, but if I rotate wheel backward from this locked position, brake releases. this happens to both sides.

BACKGROUND: I just had all 4 wheel cylinders re-sleeved at Apple Hydraulics, rebuilt MC, bled air, adjusted shoes, all new riveted shoes, all clean parts, all moving parts with red brake grease (slightly) and all parts move easily, springs strong and retract. Brake pedal high and firm, brakes stop well with no side pulling or other abnormalities.

I'M AT MY WITS END, Please HELP with definitive solution, not just guessing.
Thank you!!!!

[jackb]

Brake pedal play might be too tight. You need the brake pedal to move at least 1/8th of an inch before M/C rod moves...

[gordr]

I don't think it's hydraulic issue, since that would make the brakes drag regardless of the direction the wheels were rotating. I would be looking for shoes installed the wrong way (leading vs trailing), or maybe return springs installed wrong. Also, it may help to chamfer the ends of the brake linings with a file or grinder to about half their depth. That used to be standard practice to reduce squeaking issues.

Also, have drums been turned beyond their oversize limit?

[jrlemke]

How about the rubber lines? have they been replaced? They can look good on the outside, but be bad on the inside. -Jim

[TWChamp]

Make them bind again, then open the bleeder and see if they release.
If they do, then make them bind again and crack the line open at the master cylinder to see if they release. No lease this time, then look for a bad hose on that wheel.

[tedtaylor]

thanks for initial responses:
jackb = there is some play in pedal before actually actuating, I only meant to say the pedal is high, but actually 1/4 stroke before they work.
gordr = good idea, when I have the drums off.....again, I will do that. I do not know the tolerences/dimensions of the drum. I have read elsewhere about chalking the shoes and see the rub off from drum contact.
jrlemke = hoses are brand new when installed a decade ago, no visible external cracking, seem pliable enough, fluid flow one direction is good while bleeding, so I assume you mean possible reverse flow blockage?
TWChamp = good advice, I will consider doing that.

ALL - this truck was restored a decade or so ago and stored in a container ever since, thus my need for overhauling the hydraulics. I have seen all new metal brake lines, all new rubber lines, all new shoes, and the drums have yellow paint markings, like they may have been junk yard salvage? I would like to assume they were in proper working order then, however my discovery of leaking seals after slight honing leads me to believe the re-sleeving was the right thing to do. The brakes are otherwise working superbly, if not for this locking up/binding issue...…
UGH! !@#$%^&

[tedtaylor]

Make them bind again, then open the bleeder and see if they release.
If they do, then make them bind again and crack the line open at the master cylinder to see if they release. No lease this time, then look for a bad hose on that wheel.

sound plausible, however remember that this "temporary" locking instantly releases with the slightest reverse rotation of the wheel, and this happens on both front sides, so sounds unlikely to be hydraulic, so i'm leaning more towards a mechanical/physical issue. When it temporarily locks, I can not more it any further in the same direction, it's locked, however just reverse the wheel and it's free.

If only the drums where made of clear glass so I could see what's going on inside.!

[BARNSILVER]

SYMPTOM: front brakes bind, apply brakes, come to stop, stuck on, binding going forward. need to back up - brake, then they are released.

REPLICATED: I jack front end up, forward rotation of wheel by hand, wife applies brakes then foot off pedal. I can NOT rotate wheel forward, it is still locked up, but if I rotate wheel backward from this locked position, brake releases. this happens to both sides.

BACKGROUND: I just had all 4 wheel cylinders re-sleeved at Apple Hydraulics, rebuilt MC, bled air, adjusted shoes, all new shoes, all clean parts, all moving parts with red brake grease (slightly) and all parts move easily, springs strong and retract. Brake pedal high and firm, brakes stop well with no side pulling or other abnormalities.

I'M AT MY WITS END, Please HELP with definitive solution, not just guessing.
Thank you!!!!

The master plunger rod needs to be shortened/adjusted.

[TWChamp]

Are the linings bonded or are they riveted?

If they are bonded, be sure they aren't coming loose. A picture with the hubs off would be great.

[62champ]

From your description, it sound as though the shoes are "sticking" to the drum and will not release until a slight movement backwards. I wonder if the shoe surface is old/defective or if they just need to be used so they will seat to the drum? Maybe a dozen neighborhood miles with lots of braking and releasing might get them working properly.

[Jerry Forrester]

From your description, it sound as though the shoes are "sticking" to the drum and will not release until a slight movement backwards. I wonder if the shoe surface is old/defective or if they just need to be used so they will seat to the drum? Maybe a dozen neighborhood miles with lots of braking and releasing might get them working properly.

Yeah, drive your truck 12 miles around your neighborhood IN REVERSE while applying the brakes every 15 feet. That'll fix it for sure.
Sorry Patrick. I couldn't resist. It was just too easy.

[jrlemke]

How about a little "block sanding on the shoes? Maybe a little inside the drums too.- Jim

[62champ]

Yeah, drive your truck 12 miles around your neighborhood IN REVERSE while applying the brakes every 15 feet. That'll fix it for sure.
Sorry Patrick. I couldn't resist. It was just too easy.

Its all good - if it was someone I knew, I would suggest switching the backing plates and all attached to the opposite side - then they would only lock up when you backed up...

[tedtaylor]

in the end, i bled the system again (hidden air found) and re-adjusted, i also shortened the brake actuator rod a bit, but i think the best remedy was just using them and wearing them in. I have since obtained a decent pedal 3/4 high and firm, even stopping, no pulling and seemingly now no binding. so a combination of many little things to make this brake job successful. See you at the parade!

[RadioRoy]

Thanks for reporting the solution. That adds to the collective knowledge base that makes this forum so valuable.