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Thread: Engine temperatures.

  1. #1
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    Engine temperatures.

    I have a infrared heat detector (or whatever it is called) and last Sunday I was working on my '57 Scotsman with the 185 CID flat 6 and the air temp was 88 degrees and I had the car running for about 15 - 20 minutes. Driving it around the farm. I parked it and did some temperature checks. The left side of the engine, in checking various areas had an average temp of 154 degrees. The right side had an average temp of 250 degrees. The radiator had an average temp of about 140 degrees. Running almost pure water and no thermostat and a new radiator cap. Why such an extreme difference?

    Later. Pepse.
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  2. #2
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    That is where the thermostat comes in.
    I creates a little back pressure and improves the water flow all through the engine.

  3. #3
    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    What side is the exhaust manifold on? The right.

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    Install a proper thermostat.
    Gary L.
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    SDC member since 1968
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  5. #5
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    Well this all makes sense. It is sorta normal under the circumstances. I have a new thermostat for it but I have been debating weather to try a complete cooling system flush or just the block. The car is 61 years old, so the rad. might be too. It sat for about 25years but it is running good. So at least I know things are okay and theoretically when I install the thermostat the cooling system should balance out. I bought a 160 degree thermostat for it.

    bensherb, exhaust on the right side where it is hotter, this makes sense.

    Thanks, later, Pepse.
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  6. #6
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    Never run without a thermostat or the outer part. If the thermostat gives out on you replace it or as a minimum pop out the center and refit the ring until you can get a thermostat. Without the restriction the engine will overheat.
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    If the block hasn't had the crud cleaned out in recent history, the radiator hasn't been cleaned and tested and the engine is running without a thermostat is a recipe for overheating. The rust and trash that builds up in the coolant passages in the block will migrate to the radiator partially plugging it and without a thermostat, the coolant is circulating through the system so fast, it won't transfer heat properly. Also when you replace the thermostat, get a new thermostat spacer for the thermostat housing as they are usually rusted too. There is also the possibility that there is an issue with ignition timing such as an incorrect base timing or problems with the advance mechanisms such as sticking or worn parts and a defective vacuum advance unit will add to the overheating issues. Bud

  8. #8
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    Bud,
    I bought the thermostat "Kit": Thermostat, spacer, and both gaskets. But, like I said I want to do a flush of either just the block or the whole system. I am leery about the radiator due to its age. Although it seems solid. But if I did a complete cooling system flush I am worried about damaging the radiator with whatever chemicals are in the "Flush Kit"

    So, in your Opinion and others reading this should I back flush the block or get a cooling system flush kit and do the whole thing?

    Later. Pepse.
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  9. #9
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    I don't like to use anything caustic in the cooling system while the engine is in the car as the caustic if not used properly can do more damage than good and it will not break through the crud that builds up toward the rear of the block. The only way I've found to clean out the block while the engine is in the car is to remove the core plugs and dig the trash out which is not a fun job. If the radiator is even remotely suspect, take it out and let a competent radiator shop clean and repair it or do a re core if necessary. Like I said in an earlier post, the trash that builds up in the coolant jacket will migrate into the radiator either partially plugging it or in really bad cases, plugging it completely. Bud

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    I don't believe that the thermostat plays any part in over heating, once it is open it is the same as no thermostat. Crud in the block and debris in the radiator are the major factors in over heating. I had a thermostat stick closed and it boiled most of the crud from the block up through the bottom rad hose and in to the radiator----major over heating. The thermostat was tested in boiling water and it didn't open, however with a slight touch on the valve with a screwdriver and it popped open. What Bud says the only way to effectively remove the crud in the block is to remove the plugs and use a coat hanger and dislodge the crud and flush with garden hose, very messy do it on the grass.
    It is most important that all the water passages are clear. I am not a proponent of back flushing I don't think it does anything. Physically removing the debris in the block is the only way, radiators require specialized knowledge to clean and repair. I have a 259 that was full of crud, it took several days working at it to get it clean and now it runs at a constant 160 with a 160 thermostat.

  11. #11
    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by altair View Post
    I don't believe that the thermostat plays any part in over heating, once it is open it is the same as no thermostat.
    Not true. Even a cursory glance at a standard thermostat will tell you any thermostat will reduce flow by aproximately 30% over no thermostat. Not to mention the interference of the valve itself. "High flow" thermostats are also available, which will flow more coolant than a standard unit when fully open, intimating the valve itself also impeeds coolant flow when fully open.

  12. #12
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    I don't have time to go into details but increasing the flow through the cooling system does not make the engine overheat. If you increase the flow the difference between inlet and outlet temperature will decrease which might lead some to believe it isn't cooling as well. However the heat rejection, the cooling, is a product of the change in temperature and the amount of flow. I will try to explain in more detail later when I have more time. The restriction of the thermostat may or may not have a significant impact on the flow. It depends on the pump curve, pressure vs flow at any RPM.
    David L

  13. #13
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    In regards to doing a cooling system flush I remember in high school we had a system that had water and air pressure to clean out the block. That is what I have been thinking in regards to doing just the block. If I can find a fitting like what we used. Probably still available but like a lot of things since I started this project it is a case of remembering things from long ago and applying them.

    I want to get the radiator checked out but I will need to get a backup in case this one ends up bad and unfixable.

    Later. Pepse.
    Remember. ALWAYS fasten your seat belts as it makes it harder for the Aliens to suck you out of your car.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepse View Post
    In regards to doing a cooling system flush I remember in high school we had a system that had water and air pressure to clean out the block. That is what I have been thinking in regards to doing just the block. If I can find a fitting like what we used. Probably still available but like a lot of things since I started this project it is a case of remembering things from long ago and applying them.

    I want to get the radiator checked out but I will need to get a backup in case this one ends up bad and unfixable.

    Later. Pepse.
    Most Studebaker V8s now need more than a flush, of any kind. You need to remove the core plugs and get the trash out.
    Gary L.
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  15. #15
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    Okay, I will go with that but that means pull the motor and take everything off the block i.e. head, manifolds, flywheel and such? It is a 185 6cyl.

    Later. Pepse.
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  16. #16
    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    NO! On a Six it is easy, just open the Drain Plug at the Left Rear and or remove the starter, and knock out the Rear Core Plug, not near ANY Manifolds, Head etc.

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    Good. I thought it would be a long drawn out process. What size is that plug?

    Later. Pepse.
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  18. #18
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    IMG_20180704_123147317.jpgWell I decide to see if the chassis parts catalog would help me with the freeze plug and well I got 2 different sizes for the same part number. Illust. No. 0102-3 | part No. 1539038 - PLUG, water jacket 1 1/2", Part No. 194166 - PLUG, water jacket 1 7/8", G444740 - Plug, water jacket drain 3/8", and 4 others that pertain to the model 57G Stude.

    Since I gotta remove the starter do I need to remove the distributor, also? That's why I include the pic of the work a area.
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  19. #19
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    I am a believer in having the top tank of the radiator remove and having the tubes rodded
    y out
    rather than tanked and flushed out
    Hawkowner

  20. #20
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    IMG_20180709_151544652.jpgOkay, folks, as you can see I tried to remove the frost plug behind the starter. I Googled the "how to" and supposedly all I needed to do was to take a flat screwdriver and a hammer and tap on the bottom and the bottom would go in and the top would pop out and then take a pliers and remove it. Yeah right. Anyway most of the block drained. Now I need to know what to do next. I have never done it this way because I have replaced frost plugs in the past when they were popped out due to the cold.

    Later. Pepse.
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  21. #21
    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    Those are core plugs, used to hold the core in place while the cast iron block is poured. If your engine froze, and the core plugs came out, but the block didn't crack, consider yourself extremely lucky.
    I would have used RUST911 while the plugs were in place.
    Now I'd remove the thermostat and flush the block by sticking the hose down the thermostat opening and into the core plug opening.

  22. #22
    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepse View Post
    Well I decide to see if the chassis parts catalog would help me with the freeze plug and well I got 2 different sizes for the same part number. Illust. No. 0102-3 | part No. 1539038 - PLUG, water jacket 1 1/2", Part No. 194166 - PLUG, water jacket 1 7/8", G444740 - Plug, water jacket drain 3/8", and 4 others that pertain to the model 57G Stude.

    Since I gotta remove the starter do I need to remove the distributor, also? That's why I include the pic of the work a area.
    Just count the Large Core Plugs 1 7/8" and the smaller ones 1 1/2" on the Left side of the Block and the Qty. for a 57G Champion shown in the Catalog should match, that is what (All) you need.

    No the Distributor should not have to come out, but the Oil Filler Pipe will, if you plan to replace the Core Plug behind it. This of course will require finding a way to totally SEAL the Hole in the block temporarily to prevent water going in the Crankcase.

    Also remove the Dipstick Tube and Seal the Hole, as the spring clip will come off when removing the Starter that holds it down tightly.

    All of this procedure should be in your Shop Manual.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner




  23. #23
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    StudeRich,

    I didn't see anything in the Shop Manual for the Frost plugs (how to remove). I looked through the Cooling System and the Engines section, nothing. So, I have the starter removed and in my last post (6:40 PM) I am asking how to remove that frost plug. As you can see I damaged the plug and I don't know what to do next; as: How to remove that frost plug. I mean do I continue to pound the screwdriver around the perimeter to remove it or do I look for something bigger about the size of the plug and pound it into the water jacket?

    Later. Pepse.

    CWChamp, Once I get the plug out and clean the crap outta that area I will be flushing the cooling system.
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  24. #24
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    ***!!!! DO NOT TRY TO PICK OUT THE PLUG BY DRIVING A SCREWDRIVER AROUND THE EDGES!!!!**** You might break off the inside shoulder and then be forced to try and seal the block with the expansion-type plug (not the best). You need to drive the big screw driver "through" the center of the plug, then pry it out with another wooden fulcrum leveraging the screwdriver on it to protect surfaces. After you have cleaned out the block, install the correct plugs with a good sealer around the plug inside edges (clean surfaces!), then drive a 1/2 inch or 9/16ths socket or equivalent into the center of the plug. You should see a slightly recessed "dimple" in the plug after driving. If in doubt, do it again. I do best with a 5lb. hammer, 1 experienced blow...

  25. #25
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    Thank you jackb, I will try that later.

    Later. Pepse.
    Remember. ALWAYS fasten your seat belts as it makes it harder for the Aliens to suck you out of your car.

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