Fuel System: Electric fuel pump? Balderdash!

[tim333]

57 Commander 259.....sat for 42 days, started after 18 second crank. (10 seconds, pause, 8 seconds more). Carb and fuel pump restored by Dave T. All you “I need an electric fuel pump” guys, nonsense.

[StudeNewby]

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[sals54]

I would not be too happy with an 18 second crank time. That's a lot of cranking without decent oil pressure.
With an electric fuel pump, mine starts in about 1 or 2 seconds. Then it has good oil pressure and is not killing the battery, or killing the starter, or killing the ring gear, or killing the bendix, or killing the ignition switch, or killing starter solenoid. If you get my drift.
Also, the electric pump will not blow out its diaphram and pump gasoline into the oil supply, thus killing the engine to death. Electric pumps don't do that either.
Mechanical pumps were used cuz they were cheap and easy, not because they were the best choice.
Most mechanical parts on cars are installed for thier economy of use. In other words, dictated by the bean counters, not by the engineers.
Or else, why would all 6 cylinder cars have smaller, cheaper, and lousier brakes than the V8 cars?
The cars weigh nearly the same.
The braking energy required to stop a 6 cylinder car is virtually the same as needed for a V8 car.
But a 6 cylinder, economy car buyer does not want to spend as much money to purchase as does a V8 buyer.
The 6 brakes are much cheaper to manufacture and to install, but still quite inferior to the larger brakes.
That is something determined by accountants, not engineers.
The engineer's task is to take the dictate from the "boss" and make it work.
Safety be-damned sometimes.

[JoeHall]

I would not be too happy with an 18 second crank time. That's a lot of cranking without decent oil pressure.
With an electric fuel pump, mine starts in about 1 or 2 seconds. Then it has good oil pressure and is not killing the battery, or killing the starter, or killing the ring gear, or killing the bendix, or killing the ignition switch, or killing starter solenoid. If you get my drift.
Also, the electric pump will not blow out its diaphram and pump gasoline into the oil supply, thus killing the engine to death. Electric pumps don't do that either.
Mechanical pumps were used cuz they were cheap and easy, not because they were the best choice.
Most mechanical parts on cars are installed for thier economy of use. In other words, dictated by the bean counters, not by the engineers.
Or else, why would all 6 cylinder cars have smaller, cheaper, and lousier brakes than the V8 cars?
The cars weigh nearly the same.
The braking energy required to stop a 6 cylinder car is virtually the same as needed for a V8 car.
But a 6 cylinder, economy car buyer does not want to spend as much money to purchase as does a V8 buyer.
The 6 brakes are much cheaper to manufacture and to install, but still quite inferior to the larger brakes.
That is something determined by accountants, not engineers.
The engineer's task is to take the dictate from the "boss" and make it work.
Safety be-damned sometimes.

Agree Sal,
But the OP only starts his car every 42 days, so he can probably make do with an OEM type pump. LOL

[TWChamp]

I agree that 18 seconds is a long cranking time, and I'd prime the carb if it sat long enough to go dry. Good points about the electric pump being able to prime, plus not pump raw gas into the engine oil.

My 50 Land Cruiser has the original dual diaphram mechanical pump with the new ethanol resistant fuel pump diaphram, and so far it's working great. This car starts the second I hit the starter button, and it's at least as fast or faster than my modern car at starting. Hope it keeps up, and I might even go back to the original fuel pump for my 1950 Champion, but I will certainly keep an eye on it for leaking gas into the oil, and also for oil spitting out the fuel pump breather holes. Both of these have been a problem on the Champion in the past.

[stall]

57 Commander 259.....sat for 42 days, started after 18 second crank. Carb and fuel pump restored by Dave T. All you “I need an electric fuel pump” guys, nonsense.

Ok, I'm happy for you. In my case I spend winter in the South and my Stock-Speedster stays in the North so it doesnt start for 6 months, that's 180 days. I have an electric pump I use to prime the carb. It's a known fact that "cold-starts" add considerable wear on an engine so I avoid them. Once started after it's winter rest my Stude starts as quick as any modern car.

What you're calling nonsense is IMHO just a misunderstanding of how different people use their cars and how stressful a start with low oil pressure can be. I wish you well.
Murray

[wittsend]

Agree Sal,
But the OP only starts his car every 42 days, so he can probably make do with an OEM type pump. LOL

And that only averages out to 0.4285714285714286 seconds cranking per day. LOL Nothing like putting a heavy cranking on a battery that sat for 42 days. To each their own, but I feel the electric fuel pumps I've added to my cars are at the top of improvements I've done to make the ownership pleasurable. $100 for a new battery was not in my logic. Hence, pulling the fuel line, connecting a hose with a funnel, dumping gas in, removing, reconnecting and putting everything back took 10-15 minutes. Or..., I can flip a switch, wait about 5 seconds and be on my way. And..., having a ready installed, back up fuel pump. Priceless!

[bensherb]

He aslo likely gets much better fuel in Illinois than we get here in California Sal.

[tim333]

I beg to differ. Cranking 1-2 seconds has far LESS oil pressure than a longer crank. The oil pump is turning while cranking.

[StudeNewby]

I beg to differ. Cranking 1-2 seconds has far LESS oil pressure than a longer crank. The oil pump is turning while cranking.

...but 18 seconds is some serious wear on the starter. Even 59-year-old cars should start faster than that. Just my opinion.

[wittsend]

I beg to differ. Cranking 1-2 seconds has far LESS oil pressure than a longer crank. The oil pump is turning while cranking.

??? In either scenario the first few seconds get the exact same wear. What argument is being made? For the first few seconds both situations are equal. Now, what happens after the engine starts in 1-2 seconds (as opposed to 16 seconds more cranking)?

Let's see, using the numbers in this case it has a rapid rise in oil pressure AND volume 16 seconds earlier than the 18 second long crank. The long crank while eventually attaining some oil pressure just doesn't measure up to the near instantaneous rise with the quick start. And as mentioned above long cranking puts significant wear on other parts. There is just no advantage to long cranking.

[GrumpyOne]

Agree Sal,
But the OP only starts his car every 42 days, so he can probably make do with an OEM type pump. LOL

Back in the day I would leave both, the Avanti and Power Hawk unstarted for a year or more. Usually when I finally got "roundtuit" a ten second crank, let it set for ten or fifteen seconds then hit the starter again both would start up. BTW, both cars had excellent oil pressure after a second or two of cranking. But this was during the days of "real gas," not the crap that we are stuck with these days.

Hence the addition of an electric pump into the circuit is almost mandatory. A second consideration is the occurrence of vapor lock due the same crappy fuel's tendency to vaporize at low temperatures. For those two reasons, any Studebaker that I still own or might own in the future will have an electric pump...

[bensherb]

How many new cars built in the last 20 years use mechanical fuel pumps?

The fuel sold today, at least in California, is not designed to work with open fuel systems, mechanical pumps or carbruetors. Hence the need for an electric fuel pump.

[64Avanti]

How many new cars built in the last 20 years use mechanical fuel pumps?

The fuel sold today, at least in California, is not designed to work with open fuel systems, mechanical pumps or carbruetors. Hence the need for an electric fuel pump.

The real reason for cars using electric fuel pumps is fuel injection. However I like electric pumps on cars with carburetors.

[wittsend]

And, some older carbureted cars like my Studebaker "time period" '65 Sunbeam Tiger came from the factory with ONLY an electric fuel pump. There is a block off plate where a mechanical pump usually went. That takes all the joy out of continuous cranking!