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Thread: Vin Plate Attachment

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    Vin Plate Attachment

    Hi all, new guy here. I have a 1962 Hawk and I have a question on my vin plate. It looks like it's tack welded on even though the plate has provisions for pop rivets. Is this correct? I've seen pictures of one other that looks like mine, but will the CHP think someone swapped out the vin plate? I have to get a verification since it's out of the system. Also the body plate under the hood has a paint code of 6502 of which I could not find. Close as I can tell, it's Ermine White, although it looks like a faded pink. Thanks.

    P3111399.jpg

  2. #2
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    Spot welded serial number plate is correct. The number on the firewall plate is likely the body number.

  3. #3
    Golden Hawk Member BobPalma's Avatar
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    What Jeff said in Post #2; everything is in order. BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

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    President Member 62champ's Avatar
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    Welded on A-pillar is correct - anything else would be suspect. Example from two years earlier is below. Good luck.


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    Thanks folks. I feel better.

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    The notches in the serial number plate and holes on the A pillar were "supposed" to be lined up before spot welding but never were.
    South Lompoc Studebaker

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    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    Roland (Topper2011) please read, IMPORTANT!

    If you have ANY "1's" in your serial Number DO NOT let them type "I's" on your Title!
    Studebaker always used "I's" for "1's".

    They need to understand that your Serial Number represents a NUMERIC Number, counting all 1962 V8 Studebakers built that year at that Plant, hence the prefix "62V".
    Therefore, the ONLY Alpha should be the V for V8.
    This can be verified several ways, one is a Studebaker Chassis or Body Parts Catalog, Copies of the Production Orders ARE available to purchase from the Studebaker National Museum, and Most CHP Stations & DMV's should have a book of info on all makes and years, they just need to LOOK!

    They will try to "assume" older Cars are like current Cars, with all the Paint and Equipment Codes scrambled in Alphas & Numeric's etc. That NEVER happened on ANY 1960's U.S. Car.

    After the CHP Officer writes your verified Serial Number on the Form, LOOK at it carefully and make HIM correct errors NEVER fix them yourself, the whole process at the DMV will be thrown out, and you will need to start over back to the CHP.
    I would make the Verification Officer AT THE DMV do the Verification at a DMV office that has that service (call and ASK) if I were you, NOT the CHP!

    Good luck with your vehicle I.D. verification and Registration, I have Registered Dozens of Studebakers at Calif. DMV and will NOT let untrained individuals force me to damage my Cars History with Wrong Numbers, if they give you ANY trouble at all ask for a Supervisor.
    Last edited by StudeRich; 05-29-2018 at 01:30 AM.
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  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=StudeRich;1111769]Roland (Topper2011) please read, IMPORTANT!

    If you have ANY "1's" in your serial Number DO NOT let them type "I's" on your Title!
    Studebaker always used "I's" for "1's".

    Studerich
    Studebaker always used "I's" for "1's" because the old typewriters had no "1" on them.
    So, you would want DMV to type "I" on your paperwork to match original paperwork, body tag and frame serial numbers. Correct ???
    South Lompoc Studebaker

  9. #9
    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    Absolutely NOT! A number is a NUMBER!

    All of my Original Titles from when New, and all subsequent Calif. Titles show "1's".

    If your Serial Number is 63V-114257 it is the 114257th 1963 Studebaker Eight Cylinder Car off the South Bend Line, and says so in the Parts Catalog, (ALL #'s) it is NOT 63V-II4257 because the "I's" are REALLY 1's!

    The "I"s" are not used on ANY "Paperwork", I don't think they were used on the secret serial number on the frame, neither were the "63V" type codes.

    I have a Wash. Title that some prior owner's careless DMV person mis-identified a Lark Six "63S" as: "635", it would cost me $100.00 to have a Washington Patrol Officer verify the Frame and Serial Number plate, and then a Re-Title probably another $150.00 to $200.00 to get it right, I will SELL the Car first, before contributing to MORE Statewide wasteful spending!

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    Quote Originally Posted by StudeRich View Post
    Absolutely NOT! A number is a NUMBER!

    All of my Original Titles from when New, and all subsequent Calif. Titles show "1's".

    If your Serial Number is 63V-114257 it is the 114257th 1963 Studebaker Eight Cylinder Car off the South Bend Line, and says so in the Parts Catalog, (ALL #'s) it is NOT 63V-II4257 because the "I's" are REALLY 1's!

    The "I"s" are not used on ANY "Paperwork", I don't think they were used on the secret serial number on the frame, neither were the "63V" type codes.

    I have a Wash. Title that some prior owner's careless DMV person mis-identified a Lark Six "63S" as: "635", it would cost me $100.00 to have a Washington Patrol Officer verify the Frame and Serial Number plate, and then a Re-Title probably another $150.00 to $200.00 to get it right, I will SELL the Car first, before contributing to MORE Statewide wasteful spending!

    Thanks everybody, you guys are a wealth of knowledge. Glad I asked.

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    You may want to order the production sheet from the museum because that will match the body number and the serial number which will aid in confirming all is well. If the original engine is there that's even better proof.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jg61hawk View Post
    You may want to order the production sheet from the museum because that will match the body number and the serial number which will aid in confirming all is well. If the original engine is there that's even better proof.

    How can I do that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper2011 View Post
    How can I do that?
    Contact the Studebaker National Museum. You can order the production order from their web site.
    Gary L.
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    SDC member since 1968
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  14. #14
    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    Here is the Production Order Copy Link to the SNM from our Homepage (indirectly).

    https://www.studebakermuseum.org/store/studebaker-production-orders

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    Quote Originally Posted by StudeRich View Post
    Here is the Production Order Copy Link to the SNM from our Homepage (indirectly).

    https://www.studebakermuseum.org/store/studebaker-production-orders

    Thanks, just ordered it.

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    Awaiting the history of my Hawk from the Studebaker Museum. While trying to get my car registered, DMV person kicked me out after 2 hours of waiting just to get a number for waiting for a person to help. Stated Bill of Sale not good enough. Needed Bill of Sale from previous owner to seller also. Arrrg. Anyway, my motorcycle club was able to suggest a service to help me. My local service wanted over $700 to come out, get the information, do a vin verification and get it registered, pricey. My Club's recommendation cost $131 all inclusive, luckily my car was still in the system on Non-Op! Great news! No back fees! I should be getting paperwork in a few weeks. The I can really get down to disassembling it.

  17. #17
    President Member StudeNewby's Avatar
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    That IS good news! The DMV often plays the role of the "heavy" in these proceedings, and this forum is rife with stories of the California DMV attempting to screw over a collector. I'm glad your story is having a happy ending!
    Last edited by StudeNewby; 06-10-2018 at 03:41 PM. Reason: Fixed typo
    Mike Davis
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  18. #18
    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    I am very happy to hear that you are on your way to getting Registration and a Title for your Hawk as others here I am sure also are.

    I would caution you though, on your plan to start disassembling it, that is usually not a great idea when you first get a Car and know little about it.

    FIRST thing is: get the excellent Studebaker Chassis Parts Catalog, Body Parts Catalog and Shop Manual for '59-'64 Studes. they are available in 3 Books (Pricey) or (1) CD Rom Disc. very reasonable at Studebaker Vendors.

    http://studebakervendors.com

    Wouldn't it be possible to do the Brakes and a Tune up etc. just enough to make it a safe driver to sort out things like Steering, Suspension, Trans, Rear End etc. so you know WHAT you have and WHERE it needs the most help while it can still be driven?

    Unless you are doing ONE system at a time, it can get very overwhelming real fast.

    We hate it when a decent Stude. ends up in thousands of Pieces For Sale as a "Basket Case" for $500.00, when someone has no idea what fastener goes where or where to start and has to give it up.
    Last edited by StudeRich; 06-12-2018 at 02:09 AM.
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    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    I sure agree with Rich, and have seen far too many cars for sale in a pile of parts. Not only will it be fun to drive while you do each repair, but by doing a job at a time you won't get burned out and quit or get in deeper than you can afford. I've also seen good survivor cars that should have been left as good survivors rather than get restored or disassembled with the intention to get restored and never reassembled.

    Even if you have rusted floor pans, so the car has to come apart to replace them, I'd still go slow and drive the car for some time, and really get to know it and better understand what all it needs. Do the brakes first and any other mechanicals to make it safe to drive, then even if it needs to come apart, many of the repairs will have been done, so it's apart for a shorter time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TWChamp View Post
    I sure agree with Rich, and have seen far too many cars for sale in a pile of parts. Not only will it be fun to drive while you do each repair, but by doing a job at a time you won't get burned out and quit or get in deeper than you can afford. I've also seen good survivor cars that should have been left as good survivors rather than get restored or disassembled with the intention to get restored and never reassembled.

    Even if you have rusted floor pans, so the car has to come apart to replace them, I'd still go slow and drive the car for some time, and really get to know it and better understand what all it needs. Do the brakes first and any other mechanicals to make it safe to drive, then even if it needs to come apart, many of the repairs will have been done, so it's apart for a shorter time.

    Thanks guys, that's really good advice. I've been able to get the engine running on starting fluid for just a bit. Of course all the brakes need going through like every car I've picked up. As you guys have suggested, I will start slowly. I know the transmission will need to come out as it won't go into any gear other than neutral and second. I was able to pick one up at the Studebaker West Swap Meet a few weeks back.

    P5050026.jpgP3121433.jpgP3121436.jpg


    The tank has a leak in the lowest point and a welded on trailer hitch is keeping me from removing it for service.

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    Maybe some day?



    P5260097.jpg

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    I've seen a lot of Larks with the two spot welds...that is correct On this 66, it has hexigon rivots which I've also seen...maybe canadian only?.DSCF1280.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by doublefeature56 View Post
    I've seen a lot of Larks with the two spot welds...that is correct On this 66, it has hexigon rivots which I've also seen...maybe canadian only?.DSCF1280.jpg
    I believe that 1965 and 1966 models used the special rivets and not the welds of earlier years. Please correct me if my memory is off on this (have yet to own a 1965 or 1966, but have worked on many).
    Gary L.
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    SDC member since 1968
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    Update: Just received my registration PNO paperwork. Title should be here in a week or two.
    Rich, I also received my build sheet for the Hawk. It's great info. I did this for my 1960 Rover P5 3 Litre as well and it's great to see it's "birth certificate".
    Built in April of '62, Desert Tan and was pre-sold, so was built as a "Rush". Built in one day and shipped out the next. Hopefully, not built in too much of a rush. This is truly an original car. I started cleaning off the moss and using "Soft Scub" to clean up the oxidized paint. I figure I can't hurt it much more and seems like the Soft Scub is a mild polishing compound. Can't fix the rust on the fenders though. I think I'll clean it up and get it running as you folks had suggested and replace what I would do anyway, like disc brakes. Even fixing the drum brakes is dirt cheap compared to Turner's Disc brake set up, I would being doing the upgrade anyway. Also, since the transmission is stuck, I'll be replacing the clutch parts when I install the spare trans, may as well.

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    President Member 62champ's Avatar
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    Good luck. Color wise, it seems that every other 62 hawk was black, and seeing one that is not black, white, or red is a treat. Keep us posted and make sure you include lots of photos - some of us are visual learners...

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    Topper, since your Hawk has an april 62 production date does it have the original engine too? If it does it may have one of the early "full flow" blocks with the oil filter mounted on the lower right side & a 7 digit casting number starting with 15 on the r/f top of the block.
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    President Member Jerry Forrester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Webb View Post
    Topper, since your Hawk has an april 62 production date does it have the original engine too? If it does it may have one of the early "full flow" blocks with the oil filter mounted on the lower right side & a 7 digit casting number starting with 15 on the r/f top of the block.
    You can see an aftermarket oil filter on the firewall with the supply line coming from the front of the left heat to said oil filter.
    Evidently April is not late enough for it to have a full flow engine. What month did the full flow engines start? Also, did they change the valve covers the same time?
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Webb View Post
    Topper, since your Hawk has an april 62 production date does it have the original engine too? If it does it may have one of the early "full flow" blocks with the oil filter mounted on the lower right side & a 7 digit casting number starting with 15 on the r/f top of the block.
    I still have to check to see if it has the original engine. Not sure where to find the serial number on it. I am fairly certain it is as the build sheet stated a 4bbl carb and it does have one and appears the engine has never been touched. Of course, I'm hoping anyway. We were busy doing non-Studebaker things yesterday.





    Apparently, there is only one Studebaker Woody.

    https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2015/0...oncours-award/

  29. #29
    President Member swvalcon's Avatar
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    It's on the front of the block on the drivers side just in front of the intake. Should say P followed by the number.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by swvalcon View Post
    It's on the front of the block on the drivers side just in front of the intake. Should say P followed by the number.
    Thanks. Finally had a chance to look for the engine number. It is the original engine. Matches the build sheet. I'm a happy guy.

  31. #31
    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper2011 View Post
    Apparently, there is only one Studebaker Woody.
    That looks like it was a great meet! And nice to see a Mini and couple of Morris wood-trimmed wagons parked amongst all the American woodies.

    Studebaker offered the K5 Suburban Car from 1937 through 1939. The body was supplied by U.S. Body & Forging. To date, none are known to have survived, but keep looking in every old barn with a still-solid roof you come across.

    In postwar years, Cantrell did body some light truck chassis from nearly all manufacturers including Studebaker; although Studebaker's were mainly for export markets. In fact, I'm surprised there isn't a truck based woody such as an International or a GMC Carryall in that photo.

    Craig

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    Hi guys! Any advice on the title of my thread? Should I start a new one or can I change this title and save bandwidth by not starting another "build" thread? Anyway, does anyone know the paint colors of the bell housing and 3 speed od transmission? I am planning on painting the replacement one before I pull the old one out as it's stuck in neutral or 2nd only. I'm also planning on replacing the clutch, pilot and t/o bearing. On the progress side, I was able to pick up some mid 80's Cherokee 15 x 6 rims in good shape to replace the mis-matched ones on the car now. I was also able to get 4 new white wall tires through Discount Tires for $220 with a $75 4th of July sale. I felt this was a great price for new tires. Plus they arrived in two days! Just waiting for the recommended metal valve stems before I throw the tires on. I will be installing 4 wheel disc on this car as I hope to be driving this car quite a bit. Another plus is that SMS Auto Fabrics in Oregon has the original interior material for my upholstery and sent samples! Now I know why some people stated the fabric is poor quality, it's paper thin and does not give me a lot of confidence in durability. I wonder is I can use some upholstery glue and attach some fabric backing to it for an extra layer. Will post pictures soon.

  33. #33
    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    The major parts of the complete assembly from the Fan to the Trans. Tail was painted together in Black, the amount of ORIGINAL gloss is hard to pinpoint, but basically Semi Gloss.

    I think a good descriptive Title on a New post is fine for a ongoing "Restoration/Driver Repair Post" as long as it describes What Model you are doing: " '62 GT Hawk."
    Last edited by StudeRich; 07-07-2018 at 01:07 PM.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by StudeRich View Post
    The major parts of the complete assembly from the Fan to the Trans. Tail was painted together in Black, the amount of ORIGINAL gloss is hard to pinpoint, but basically Semi Gloss.

    I think a good descriptive Title on a New post is fine for a ongoing "Restoration/Driver Repair Post" as long as it describes What Model you are doing: " '62 GT Hawk."

    Thanks Rich, will do.

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