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Thread: Still using a ton of oil

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Ridenour View Post
    If you used moly rings, it could take anywhere between 1,000 to 2,000 miles for the rings to seat and oil consumption to stop. The last engine that I rebuilt using moly rings stopped consuming oil somewhere around 1,500 miles.

    When I overhauled the engine in the Power Hawk back around 1970, (don't ask me why I did this), I installed moly rings and on the advice of my mechanic left the bore alone, (no honing), with the premise that in the end, the job would be more enduring. He was right but it took nearly 7K for everything to seat properly but the engine/car is better off for it.

    Now some 40K later, oil consumption is negligible except for the pan gasket leaks...

  2. #42
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    and a bent (pressed) gas tank can read off too.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackb View Post
    never heard the "film" theory..... interesting
    Just think about it, if the inside of the engine is bare and dry and the oil is filled to the full mark, all the parts will get covered with a film of oil that comes from within, hence the first 100 miles will consume about one quart. It doesn't leak out and it isn't burned--where did it go?

  4. #44
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    no poke intended..... never heard of it. So when the engine shuts down to/from 200 degrees, are you saying it stays thick enough to cling to the walls ??? Just asking - don't know . How many years will the film stay on the inside of the engine for a rested start up ??

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by altair View Post
    Just think about it, if the inside of the engine is bare and dry and the oil is filled to the full mark, all the parts will get covered with a film of oil that comes from within, hence the first 100 miles will consume about one quart. It doesn't leak out and it isn't burned--where did it go?
    I don't believe a quart of oil is unable to run back into the pan. For example, let's just round off the entire interior surface area to 20 sq ft. It's certainly not more than that. Hot oil is going to form a film of no more than .001". Do the math, that's .24 cubic inch., about a tablespoon.

    Yes, there are some pockets around valves, a bit in the oil galleries, a few drops hanging here and there, but nothing approaching a quart.

    What is normal. depending on the cylinder bore finishes, and rings used, is for many engines to consume some oil during the first few hours of operation, but many carefully built engines consume very little. And as far as break-in on a well built engine, I've watched new BMWs come off the assembly line. They roll onto a highly instrumented dyno where they are fired up for the first time. Total time is no more than five minutes during which time the engine is run up to max revs and maximum load. If all the sensor numbers look normal, it's ready to hit the road, flat out if desired.

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=jnormanh;1112495]I don't believe a quart of oil is unable to run back into the pan. For example, let's just round off the entire interior surface area to 20 sq ft. It's certainly not more than that. Hot oil is going to form a film of no more than .001". Do the math, that's .24 cubic inch., about a tablespoon.

    Yes, there are some pockets around valves, a bit in the oil galleries, a few drops hanging here and there, but nothing approaching a quart.

    What is normal. depending on the cylinder bore finishes, and rings used, is for many engines to consume some oil during the first few hours of operation, but many carefully built engines consume very little. And as far as break-in on a well built engine, I've watched new BMWs come off the assembly line. They roll onto a highly instrumented dyno where they are fired up for the first time. Total time is no more than five minutes during which time the engine is run up to max revs and maximum load. If all the sensor numbers look normal, it's ready to hit the road, flat out if desired.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBE7yPLzFic

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnormanh View Post
    I don't believe a quart of oil is unable to run back into the pan. For example, let's just round off the entire interior surface area to 20 sq ft. It's certainly not more than that. Hot oil is going to form a film of no more than .001". Do the math, that's .24 cubic inch., about a tablespoon.

    Yes, there are some pockets around valves, a bit in the oil galleries, a few drops hanging here and there, but nothing approaching a quart.

    What is normal. depending on the cylinder bore finishes, and rings used, is for many engines to consume some oil during the first few hours of operation, but many carefully built engines consume very little. And as far as break-in on a well built engine, I've watched new BMWs come off the assembly line. They roll onto a highly instrumented dyno where they are fired up for the first time. Total time is no more than five minutes during which time the engine is run up to max revs and maximum load. If all the sensor numbers look normal, it's ready to hit the road, flat out if desired.
    I did "do the math" and came up with 2.88 cubic inches. 20 sq. ft. X 144 sq. in. in a sq. ft. = 2880 sq. in. 2880 sq. in. X 0.001 inch = 2.88 cu. in.

    EDIT: Your point is still made. I just took up your "challenge" to "do the math".

    I have personally given some brand new $100+K cars, including BMW, a real "challenge" (speed/acceleration/braking).
    Last edited by studegary; 06-03-2018 at 06:59 PM.
    Gary L.
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    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

  8. #48
    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    The largest "Collector" of Oil in a New, Dry, first time fill, Engine, is in the Pockets around the Lifters in the "Valley".
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner




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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by studegary View Post
    I did "do the math" and came up with 2.88 cubic inches. 20 sq. ft. X 144 sq. in. in a sq. ft. = 2880 sq. in. 2880 sq. in. X 0.001 inch = 2.88 cu. in.

    EDIT: Your point is still made. I just took up your "challenge" to "do the math".

    .
    Oops. Thanks, Gary.

  10. #50
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    Guy's let's get back to the problem. i still bet on guide's and seals. unless those guides and stems are factory fresh a set of umbrella seals wont keep the oil out of the guide. once the valve cycles open and shut a few times the umbrella seal has migrated up the stem. that oil mist that covers the inside of the engine gets pulled down the guide. now back to my coffee! {uck Doofus

  11. #51
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    So now after about a 85-90 mile round trip never used a drop of oil dipstick is still at same level as it was after the trip back from previous car show. Hopefully the long drive cured the problem. But now I have discovered another problem, oil pressure is good when driving , but drops down to about 2nd mark when stopped and idling. Pretty sure that it wasn't like that before. I'm using straight 30# oil right now.

  12. #52
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    I don't know what the second mark represents on your gauge, but the pressure does drop quite a bit at warm idle. It may be normal.


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  13. #53
    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    I changed my 50 Land Cruiser oil for the first time 2 days ago. I don't know what the previous owner had in it, but it was black.
    I used Shell Rotella 10-30 and a can of STP. It runs 40 while driving, and about 20 at idle.
    Last edited by TWChamp; 06-11-2018 at 07:10 PM.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbigcal View Post
    So now after about a 85-90 mile round trip never used a drop of oil dipstick is still at same level as it was after the trip back from previous car show. Hopefully the long drive cured the problem. But now I have discovered another problem, oil pressure is good when driving , but drops down to about 2nd mark when stopped and idling. Pretty sure that it wasn't like that before. I'm using straight 30# oil right now.
    So it uses no oil. That's good. I have no idea what "2nd mark" means, but with the engine hot, oil pressure down below 20 psi, even as low as 10 at idle isn't abnormal. If it bothers you, switch to 15W40 and it will be a little higher.

    And stop worrying about non-existent problems.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnormanh View Post
    And stop worrying about non-existent problems.
    I guess it is a good thing 59 Larks had an oil light. It was my first car and I didn't know what the oil pressure was. As long as the oil light would go out when I tapped the accelerator, I just drove it. I did get the engine overhauled eventually.


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  16. #56
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    I checked pressure with a conventional gauge today idling cold 45-50, revved up cold 70, hot idle 16 hot revved up 45-50. Gauge in car is fairly accurate 2nd mark is 20. So I guess it's ok. I never noticed it being that low at idle even before overhaul. Just sort of scary to see needle way down there.

  17. #57
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    Can't speak for the Studebaker engine but the general rule of thumb (SBC) is 10 PSI per 1,000 RPM. If you have 20 PSI at idle that is nothing to be concerned about. Some of the modern engines with tight clearances and running 0-20 oil idle are near 4 PSI as their normal.
    '64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-98 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.

  18. #58
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    Not certain of this wagon having a vacuum brake booster. I have found a defective booster drawing oil from the engine on
    a Chevrolet. The booster had oil in it. It is just a thought. It would have been on the car before the rebuild and after.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet55 View Post
    Not certain of this wagon having a vacuum brake booster. I have found a defective booster drawing oil from the engine on
    a Chevrolet. The booster had oil in it. It is just a thought. It would have been on the car before the rebuild and after.
    Vacuum booster connects to the intake manifold, so I don't see how that could draw oil, nor have anything to do with oil usage.

  20. #60
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    So a Studebaker engine does not have oil in the lifter galley? I know it does not have coolant passages in the intake manifold. Modern engines can suck oil right from the line to the brake booster. That is why they have a check valve in the line.

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet55 View Post
    So a Studebaker engine does not have oil in the lifter galley? I know it does not have coolant passages in the intake manifold. Modern engines can suck oil right from the line to the brake booster. That is why they have a check valve in the line.
    I can see the intake manifold sucking oil if the gasket fails, but I still don't see how the brake vacuum booster comes into play as far as oil usage. It has a one way check valve so the booster won't loose vacuum during low intake manifold vacuum during a hard pull or an engine stall.

  22. #62
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    Whoops I forgot to say the bad Chevy booster had a failed check valve. The oil gets on the inner booster material. As you use the brakes, which aren't usually working well, you can create a pump which can draw oil from the engine. It was an oddball case I admit. Odd to see oil in a brake booster. It wasn't as much as this gentleman was describing that he was losing but with an older car I wasn't sure all things adding together this was one thing not to overlook.

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