Brake pedal pad

[BrianC]

Sorry , thought i mentioned its 63 Hawk, front disc, rear drum. M/C on the frame and hydrorvac. I understood that the turner brake dual M/C resulted more effort and less braking power when installed without the booster? Thats why i had the booster rebuilt, probably a big mistake. I just finished re-plumbing and installing the original M/C, if the results from all this work aren’t positive, i just may go back to the Turner unit without the booster.
Thanks to everyone for your input, this forum is invaluable.

[Skybolt]

A Hard Pedal,

ALL these "Issues" are why I would NEVER try to install Disc Brakes on a Drum Brake car with the under the floor Master Cylinder.

I should have been more specific. This is the statement I was refering to.

Other than that, the advice given from Rich is usualy sound.

Len

P.S. I have not had an original disc brake car so really can't help other than saying your original disc brake master is different than mine and so you may have trouble using it without a booster.

[BrianC]

Need to know something about the plumbing for the brakes on the 63 Hawk w/disc.
I have the manuals for the 60-62, the 62-64, and the cahssis manual, in the manuals, i just this time noticed that the filler cap for the master under the floor does “not” have a line into it from the reservoir on the firewall? However this car does ? In the plumbing diagrams this isn’t illustrated? Also there is no mention of the resevoir on the firewall, just instructions on how to re-fill the one under the floor?
According to the manuals, the rears are boosted from the junction block that supplies the front disc from the booster? I’ve been told from this forum the rears do not require boosting?
Studebaker Intl. doesnt have a listing for this type filler cap?
This set-up makes no sense seeing that according to the manuals the m/c should be filled within 1/2” from the top, with the supply from the firewall, it fills to the maximum ? The bronze gasket, no matter how good it is, will leak?
This brings up the issue of booster failure, if it fails, there will also be no rear brakes? This happened to me and i had a bad accident as a result!
So, what is the best way to plumb this archaic system, and are all the Hawks this way or is this something someone did to this car prior to my ownership?

[rkapteyn]

I agree
Turner dual master cylinder with one side going to the front Turner disk brake setup without booster and the other side going to the rear. No boosters nor check valves.
All new brake lines and hoses, no skimping!

[BrianC]

So what kind of line do i use from the supply to the dual master, how do i split it? I previously used a tee with fuel line, that didnt seem to work out.

[64V-K7]

So what kind of line do i use from the supply to the dual master, how do i split it? I previously used a tee with fuel line, that didnt seem to work out.

Something like this would work, it did on my car

http://www.studebaker-info.org/Tech/Brakes/36237T/36237T.html

[BrianC]

The Turner dual M/C is nothing like the one on this site, both supplies are and feeds are on top. I tried to post an image with no luck.

[BrianC]

This is the Turner dual M/C im using.

[64V-K7]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]72547[/ATTACH]This is the Turner dual M/C im using.

That one looks like the Mitsubishi Eclipse. They work well!

So go on Ebay and see if you can find the correct remote filler for it, which attaches to the firewall.

Here's the one that was on my car..

http://www.studebaker-info.org/64v2488/eclipse/eclipseMC.html

Here's another application..

http://www.studebaker-info.org/Tech/Brakes/gthawk1/gthawk1brak.html

[BrianC]

Thank you, this is very useful info.! A great help. I have the original M/C back in right now, i suspect my rebuilt Hydrovac may be the issue, so after all my bleeds and checking i am definitely going to re-insatll this unit. I didn’t recieve a new actuator rod with this one, but looks like the stock rod will do.

[Hawklover]

I am glad I have four NOS sets of Girling pads(and rear drum riveted) for my Avanti......nothing stops like good ol asbestos, and I have never has an issue with the stopping power of the Avanti

I feel your pain, with the substandard brakes, but must ask, if there is no pedal pad, how are you pressing the brakes?

As for the 2# RPV coming off the output side of the HV, it is not likely a problem. However, to check it, push the brakes while sitting still in your driveway (transmission in neutral) then immediately get out and try to push the car. If it rolls freely, there's not enough residual pressure to affect brake drag. You can also check by coming to a stop on a slight incline. After pushing the brake pedal, if you take your foot off the brake, the car should start to roll again. Either way, you are checking for brake drag, when the pedal is NOT applied. Another way is to stop the car after a few miles, get out and use the back of your hand to feel for excess heat around the front rotors. (Do NOT use your fingertips to touch the rotors.)

Perhaps you are expecting too much out of the brake system. What exactly do you expect it to do in a, "panic stop"? When moving how fast? If moving maybe 30 MPH or less, it should lock up in short order. If moving 50 MPH and up, is may haul down quickly, but may not lock the front wheels up.

Pad and shoe materials can also determine the brake system's, "personality". There are materials that will turn any car's brakes into junk. And there are materials that will make the best of a marginal system. Generally, softer, quicker wearing pads perform the best. While those that last longer do not perform as well. I prefer very soft, with max initial grab, and minimal fade. I am currently using EBC, "Green Stuff" pads on two of the Hawks, and still using Hawk brand HPS (high performance street) on the 3rd Hawk. I can definitely tell a difference, and will someday get round to installing Green Stuff on the 3rd Hawk.

Just rambling, I guess, but hope this helps.

Also, see this thread: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...tuff-quot-Pads

[JoeHall]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]72547[/ATTACH]This is the Turner dual M/C im using.

Since you have double checked everything else, you might wanna double check that Mitsubishi MC, and insure the piston & bore are a full 1" diameter. Anything less will not work, because you run out of pedal before the brakes are fully applied. I am pretty sure the Mitsubishi MC comes in several different sizes, so insure you have the correct, 1" size.

[BrianC]

Ive inquired a number of times on torque specs for the caliber to the caliper adaptor bracket and the cylinder block(piston) to the caliper bridge on the 63 Hawk, anybody have any idea, can’t find ir anywhere?

[BrianC]

Ive inquired a number of times on torque specs for the caliber to the caliper adaptor bracket and the cylinder block(piston) to the caliper bridge on the 63 Hawk, anybody have any idea, can’t find ir anywhere?

[chet445]

Interesting dialog on the brakes. I have '62 Hawk and have rebuilt the brakes using Turner disc on front. I do not have booster. My question is, "Do I need a proportion valve to equal out the pressure?". The car has not been driven yet as I am still restoring. Chet445