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Thread: 56 J for sale at Mecum Auction May 16th

  1. #1
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    56 J for sale at Mecum Auction May 16th

    Taking a big chance and one that I have never tried before.

    I friend who died last year had a large car collection. His family is putting 45 of his cars in the Mecum Indy 2018 Auction with no reserve. My 56J was kept at their place because I ran out of room and their mechanic has always worked on my cars doing things I couldn't. Anyways I have added my 56J to the lot.

    The car was built by Joe Hall. He spent a lot of time and money turning it into a great driver. The main thing I did was replace the main wiring harness by Lark Works. Repairs were done to the gearbox, transmission and new fuel lines.

    https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0518-34...r-golden-hawk/

    Open to comments and of course criticism.

    Steve
    �Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.� - Red Buttons

    '56 Golden Hawk
    '63 Avanti R2
    '14 Boxster
    '64 GT Hawk R1 JT
    '37 Dictator Coupe
    '37 Dictator Coupe "slight custom"

  2. #2
    Golden Hawk Member BobPalma's Avatar
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    Is the car included in the lost of "From the XXXX Collection?" If so, which collection (i.e., your friend's name)?
    Just curious; I was going to see what other cars were in that group of 45 from the same consignor. I'll be at the auction several days. BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

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    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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    Hey Bob,

    He was John Denison and his things are in the Maryland Classic Car and the Maryland Classic Road Art. I sold him the '53 Willys wagon. He is missed!

    Steve
    �Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.� - Red Buttons

    '56 Golden Hawk
    '63 Avanti R2
    '14 Boxster
    '64 GT Hawk R1 JT
    '37 Dictator Coupe
    '37 Dictator Coupe "slight custom"

  4. #4
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    Is it an automatic or standard tranmission?
    64 GT Hawk (K7)
    1970 Avanti (R3)

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    Automatic.

    Joe had put a Th400 transmission and a 2.53 rear end in it.
    �Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.� - Red Buttons

    '56 Golden Hawk
    '63 Avanti R2
    '14 Boxster
    '64 GT Hawk R1 JT
    '37 Dictator Coupe
    '37 Dictator Coupe "slight custom"

  6. #6
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    It looks like a nice car. I hope that it brings enough for you selling on Wednesday.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

  7. #7
    Silver Hawk Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    I spent over 3 years, 2000 labor hours, and $20K on that car, from 2001 to 2004. I did not want a TQ, but a nice looking, dependable driver, which it turned out to be. I then drove it a little over 40,000 miles, including from KY to Spokane and back, in 2005, for the SDC Meet there. I sold it around 2012, IIRC.

    It is a South Bend 56J, sold new in Los Cruces, NM. I bought it in NC, from a guy who got it from a local estate sale, of the guy who bought it new, or nearly new in New Mexico. He was an Air Force pilot, and retired a bird Colonel in NC. The car still had a base sticker on the front bumper when I got it. The guy I got it from and already removed, dipped and primed all body panels. He had also rebuilt the (still original) motor, but the pistons were too tight in the bores. So I re-did the motor, and also installed a Jack Nordstrom TH400 kit, custom driveshaft, and 2.53 AM-20 rear end (AMC), with Moser flanged axles. With the TH400's 1st gear start and 2.53 rear gears, it is quicker off line than an original Ultramatic with 2nd gear start and 3.07 rear gears. As is now, it is perfectly geared for all roads, anywhere.

    I raised the body about 6' up off the frame, to re-do the frame, body belly, and suspension. I set the suspension up with every trick I knew: factory HD (526125) front springs, made to spec by Coil Spring Specialties; HD rear springs from SASCO; 63-66 V8, front anti-sway bar; Dave T-bow rear anti-sway bar; 12" Levesky style front DBs, with dual MC; 6" wide wheels with 205/75 radials and steel valve stems, etc..

    Inside, I installed Nu-Relics electric windows, a heater/AC combined evaporator; Phantom carpet and seat covers; re-did the headliner, etc. Under the hood: HD cooling system, including a custom made aluminum, Sirocco style, double-pass radiator; Edelbrock carb; PCV, with valve cover breathers; electric fuel pump, etc.. I kept the exterior and interior original colors: sunglow & snowcap, and charcoal & white. The paint is PPG, acrylic enamel, with epoxy primer beneath.

    Around 2012, I owned three 56Js, and all were nice drivers. To downsize, I sold two of them off, but kept the blue & white one, and probably will have it till I die. There's another, "Joe Hall built" 56J in Baltimore, I restored in late 1980s, and sold it there in the early 1990s. I drove the above four 56Js a total of around 225,000 miles, and a 56J in high school maybe 5000 miles. So I have done my fair share of keeping them running and, "showing" them on the road.

    The subject car here was my latest, and best effort at making a nice, dependable driver. Whoever buys it will get just that, as it still has a lot of life left in it.
    Last edited by JoeHall; 04-27-2018 at 07:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHall View Post
    I spent over 3 years, 2000 labor hours, and $20K on that car, from 2001 to 2004. I did not want a TQ, but a nice looking, dependable driver, which it turned out to be. I then drove it a little over 40,000 miles, including from KY to Spokane and back, in 2005, for the SDC Meet there. I sold it around 2012, IIRC.

    It is a South Bend 56J, sold new in Los Cruces, NM. I bought it in NC, from a guy who got it from a local estate sale, of the guy who bought it new, or nearly new in New Mexico. He was an Air Force pilot, and retired a bird Colonel in NC. The car still had a base sticker on the front bumper when I got it. The guy I got it from and already removed, dipped and primed all body panels. He had also rebuilt the (still original) motor, but the pistons were too tight in the bores. So I re-did the motor, and also installed a Jack Nordstrom TH400 kit, custom driveshaft, and 2.53 AM-20 rear end (AMC), with Moser flanged axles. With the TH400's 1st gear start and 2.53 rear gears, it is quicker off line than an original Ultramatic with 2nd gear start and 3.07 rear gears. As is now, it is perfectly geared for all roads, anywhere.

    I raised the body about 6' up off the frame, to re-do the frame, body belly, and suspension. I set the suspension up with every trick I knew: factory HD (526125) front springs, made to spec by Coil Spring Specialties; HD rear springs from SASCO; 63-66 V8, front anti-sway bar; Dave T-bow rear anti-sway bar; 12" Levesky style front DBs, with dual MC; 6" wide wheels with 205/75 radials and steel valve stems, etc..

    Inside, I installed Nu-Relics electric windows, a heater/AC combined evaporator; Phantom carpet and seat covers; re-did the headliner, etc. Under the hood: HD cooling system, including a custom made aluminum, Sirocco style, double-pass radiator; Edelbrock carb; PCV, with valve cover breathers; electric fuel pump, etc.. I kept the exterior and interior original colors: sunglow & snowcap, and charcoal & white. The paint is PPG, acrylic enamel, with epoxy primer beneath.

    Around 2012, I owned three 56Js, and all were nice drivers. To downsize, I sold two of them off, but kept the blue & white one, and probably will have it till I die. There's another, "Joe Hall built" 56J in Baltimore, I restored in late 1980s, and sold it there in the early 1990s. I drove the above four 56Js a total of around 225,000 miles, and a 56J in high school maybe 5000 miles. So I have done my fair share of keeping them running and, "showing" them on the road.

    The subject car here was my latest, and best effort at making a nice, dependable driver. Whoever buys it will get just that, as it still has a lot of life left in it.
    Thanks Joe for the background.

    The great thing about the Studebaker world are the people you run into and their love for the cars. It has been invaluable to keep the cars going. What Frank Ambrogio has done with the 56J Owners Club has been priceless.
    �Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.� - Red Buttons

    '56 Golden Hawk
    '63 Avanti R2
    '14 Boxster
    '64 GT Hawk R1 JT
    '37 Dictator Coupe
    '37 Dictator Coupe "slight custom"

  9. #9
    Silver Hawk Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbox View Post
    Thanks Joe for the background.

    The great thing about the Studebaker world are the people you run into and their love for the cars. It has been invaluable to keep the cars going. What Frank Ambrogio has done with the 56J Owners Club has been priceless.
    Agree. Frank's talented efforts, and tons of work, have made 56Js even more fun to own. I believe it is now, without a doubt, the most researched and documented Studebaker model ever made. We all live in a small Studebaker world and the, "56J Only Register" is a microcosm within the Studebaker world. We have had a quarterly newsletters, from 1989 till now!

  10. #10
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    With all of this good information, I may do something that I have never done before and that is register to bid by telephone at a Mecum auction on a car that I have never seen. I will have to check into the procedure and costs involved.
    Last edited by studegary; 04-27-2018 at 08:28 PM. Reason: added Mecum
    Gary L.
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    I wish more people would restore cars to their original configuration, seems like Purists are far and few between. I’m so tired of the comments “to make them a driver.” JMHO

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim333 View Post
    I wish more people would restore cars to their original configuration, seems like Purists are far and few between. I’m so tired of the comments “to make them a driver.” JMHO
    There are countless nice, restored, bone stock Studebakers around that never leave the garage, except to go in and out of a trailer. If an owner makes a few mods in order to make it more a comfortable (in their opinion) driver, and the car spends more time on the road than in the garage... Where's the downside?

    If it really bothers you, then buy the '56J being discussed and put it back bone-stock. It's on the open market, so here's your chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbstude View Post
    There are countless nice, restored, bone stock Studebakers around that never leave the garage, except to go in and out of a trailer. If an owner makes a few mods in order to make it more a comfortable (in their opinion) driver, and the car spends more time on the road than in the garage... Where's the downside?

    If it really bothers you, then buy the '56J being discussed and put it back bone-stock. It's on the open market, so here's your chance.
    Well said!

    The bottom line is it's your car, so do what you want with it. If more people drove their Studebakers, more people would appreciate Studebaker. My '64 GT Hawk R1 JT is a well documented frame off restoration and won 1st place in 2008 at the Lancaster, PA SDC International Meet and get driven and is not a trailer queen.
    �Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.� - Red Buttons

    '56 Golden Hawk
    '63 Avanti R2
    '14 Boxster
    '64 GT Hawk R1 JT
    '37 Dictator Coupe
    '37 Dictator Coupe "slight custom"

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    Joe,

    Did you buy that car from the former Avanti Motors owner? Reading the story it seems to fit a car I used to own. It was white with a terrible black interior that I call Tijuana Tuck and Roll. I bought it in NM in a storage facility and Bruce Sandburg help me trailer the car home. We got in running and it appeared the car at one time was 3 speed and overdrive converted to Ultramatic. I was working on the car bringing it up slowly and taking it out for occasional drive. I could not have the car go over 60 or 2,000 rpm with a stumble hesitation. The progress stopped when my daughter announced she was getting married and the car was sold on Ebay to the guy that was starting Avanti motors and wanted to start a museum as well.

    The son I bought the car from told me his dad, a retired colonel, had a 56J new and would drive as a cadet on the weekend off to visit his girlfriend. Because of the distance, and time, he would drive pretty much 120 mph to cover the time and distance.

    Just maybe a coincidence but the car did show signs of sunglow gold and white, one of my favorite color combos.

    Bob Miles
    Different by Design,
    Different by Delight!

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    I am quite interested in the GH. I have been looking into what I have to do to become a telephone bidder. It includes sending them 5% of my upper bid limit, copies of my driver's license, etc. I also looked into a shipping quote. After much time spent, I checked my calendar for the date that it will be sold. I will not be available to bid via telephone or online on that date (I do not know if one can leave an absentee bid, but I would not be comfortable with that - the auction company may bid the car up to near my maximum.). On the 16th, I will be travelling, at a luncheon and on stage for a college honors convocation. I guess that I will just have to read about the results.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

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    Silver Hawk Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by studegary View Post
    I am quite interested in the GH. I have been looking into what I have to do to become a telephone bidder. It includes sending them 5% of my upper bid limit, copies of my driver's license, etc. I also looked into a shipping quote. After much time spent, I checked my calendar for the date that it will be sold. I will not be available to bid via telephone or online on that date (I do not know if one can leave an absentee bid, but I would not be comfortable with that - the auction company may bid the car up to near my maximum.). On the 16th, I will be travelling, at a luncheon and on stage for a college honors convocation. I guess that I will just have to read about the results.
    Hi Gary,
    Knowing you prefer your Studes more stock, I'd highly recommend you inspect this car in person, or have someone look at it for you, whom you trust, and who knows your taste. I tried to describe the car as accurately as possible. It is a nice driver, and looks great going down the road, or at a cruise-in. But at an SDC meet, purists would pick it apart all day long.

    Joe H

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    Silver Hawk Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6hk71400 View Post
    Joe,

    Did you buy that car from the former Avanti Motors owner? Reading the story it seems to fit a car I used to own. It was white with a terrible black interior that I call Tijuana Tuck and Roll. I bought it in NM in a storage facility and Bruce Sandburg help me trailer the car home. We got in running and it appeared the car at one time was 3 speed and overdrive converted to Ultramatic. I was working on the car bringing it up slowly and taking it out for occasional drive. I could not have the car go over 60 or 2,000 rpm with a stumble hesitation. The progress stopped when my daughter announced she was getting married and the car was sold on Ebay to the guy that was starting Avanti motors and wanted to start a museum as well.

    The son I bought the car from told me his dad, a retired colonel, had a 56J new and would drive as a cadet on the weekend off to visit his girlfriend. Because of the distance, and time, he would drive pretty much 120 mph to cover the time and distance.

    Just maybe a coincidence but the car did show signs of sunglow gold and white, one of my favorite color combos.

    Bob Miles
    Different by Design,
    Different by Delight!

    Bob,
    Definitely not the same car. This one was unmolested, except for the work began by the guy I had bought it off of. It had always been an Ultramatic. The interior was still as it came, charcoal and white. The outside was still original colors, except the panels had been removed, dipped and primer-ed, as mentioned.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHall View Post
    Hi Gary,
    It is a nice driver, and looks great going down the road, or at a cruise-in. But at an SDC meet, purists would pick it apart all day long.

    Joe H
    What Joe said is true. This is a very good driver but will not be a high point car at a meet.
    Steve
    �Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.� - Red Buttons

    '56 Golden Hawk
    '63 Avanti R2
    '14 Boxster
    '64 GT Hawk R1 JT
    '37 Dictator Coupe
    '37 Dictator Coupe "slight custom"

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHall View Post
    Hi Gary,
    Knowing you prefer your Studes more stock, I'd highly recommend you inspect this car in person, or have someone look at it for you, whom you trust, and who knows your taste. I tried to describe the car as accurately as possible. It is a nice driver, and looks great going down the road, or at a cruise-in. But at an SDC meet, purists would pick it apart all day long.

    Joe H
    I do not know where some of you get this impression of me (stock). My last three Studebakers were restomods. I have owned other modifieds out of the more than 50 postwar Studebakers that I have owned. I do not like a car that is represented as stock when it isn't, but I do appreciate a nice modified car, particularly a restomod (that appears stock). It is your (Joe's) description of the Hawk that got me most interested. I like both stock and modified, but not a stock car that just has a few changes, such as incorrect year parts.
    Gary L.
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    SDC member since 1968
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbox View Post
    What Joe said is true. This is a very good driver but will not be a high point car at a meet.
    Steve
    How about if it was entered as a modified/custom?

    EDIT: Also, I do not want to spend what a #1, or possibly a #2, '56 Golden Hawk should bring.
    Gary L.
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  21. #21
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    This morning I got a call from Mecum shipping. It would cost $950 for them to get the GH to me.

    I got an e-mail back about the specifics of telephone bidding at Mecum. They want a 20% deposit, in advance, for the amount that you may bid up to. If you do not "win" the bid, they have up to 30 days to send you their check in return.
    Gary L.
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    SDC member since 1968
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  22. #22
    President Member StudeNewby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by studegary View Post
    How about if it was entered as a modified/custom?
    That's a great question. How WOULD they judge this car?
    Last edited by StudeNewby; 05-01-2018 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Fixed typo
    Mike Davis
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    Quote Originally Posted by StudeNewby View Post
    That's a great question. How WOULD they judge this car?
    Strictly on condition and cleanliness, in the Studebaker powered custom/modified division.
    Of course it could be judged in the stock class and just take the authenticity deductions.
    Gary L.
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  24. #24
    Silver Hawk Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by studegary View Post
    This morning I got a call from Mecum shipping. It would cost $950 for them to get the GH to me.

    I got an e-mail back about the specifics of telephone bidding at Mecum. They want a 20% deposit, in advance, for the amount that you may bid up to. If you do not "win" the bid, they have up to 30 days to send you their check in return.
    The best part is the auction fee for buyers, 10 percent if there in person, and 12 percent if by phone or on-line. Seems the only ones getting rich is the auction owners. Auctions almost seem outdated, compared to ebay. Plus, ebay reaches a much wider audience.

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    My thoughts entirely Joe.

    It seems to me the auctions houses are having it every way; the vendor coughs up as well as the buyer... and as you've pointed out, the buyer gets cough an extra 20% if they're on the phone because they might live on the other side of the country or somewhere else in the world.

    Anyway, it seems to explain to me why Mercum are so keen to see 1,000 + cars / month at each auction. Someone's getting the wool pulled, IMHO
    Richard

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    Getting OT, but the concept of a "buyer's premium of 10%" is a relatively new concept. For most of auction history, the auctioneer took his cut from the seller. Now, they want it both ways.

    jack vines
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackardV8 View Post
    Getting OT, but the concept of a "buyer's premium of 10%" is a relatively new concept. For most of auction history, the auctioneer took his cut from the seller. Now, they want it both ways.

    jack vines
    I have found a buyer' premium of 10% to be common in general auctions in these parts for decades. In recent years, most get a 15% buyer's premium. I just figure it into what I bid. Probably, many don't and just get surprised when the 15% plus sales tax (8.125% here) gets added on.
    Gary L.
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  28. #28
    Golden Hawk Member BobPalma's Avatar
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    This Golden Hawk just sold for $16,000 at the auction, plus 10% Buyer's Premium; total $17,600.

    Sadly, the guy who was supposed to raise the hood fumbled around and couldn't figure out how to get it open, so it had to cross the block with the hood closed, hiding one of the more dramatic facets of 1956 Golden Hawks.

    (I wasn't at the sale today or I would have jumped in the ring and opened it for them. I've got a week-long Media Pass and would have been able to do that without being thrown out.) BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

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    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

  29. #29
    Silver Hawk Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobPalma View Post
    This Golden Hawk just sold for $16,000 at the auction, plus 10% Buyer's Premium; total $17,600.

    Sadly, the guy who was supposed to raise the hood fumbled around and couldn't figure out how to get it open, so it had to cross the block with the hood closed, hiding one of the more dramatic facets of 1956 Golden Hawks.

    (I wasn't at the sale today or I would have jumped in the ring and opened it for them. I've got a week-long Media Pass and would have been able to do that without being thrown out.) BP
    Someone got a good deal, on a very nice driver.

  30. #30
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    If you think Mecum is bad you should see Barret jackson He charges for everything. If there was a way to charge for the air you breath while at his auction he would.

  31. #31
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    Today I enjoyed seeing your Golden Hawk, I texted Lark VIII girl a photo of it as it is almost a twin to her former 1956 Golden Hawk. She enjoyed viewing it.

    Husband of Lark VIII girl.

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    That is one great deal on a great car. Power Steering, A/C. What a great cruiser.

  33. #33
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    [QUOTE=BobPalma;1110268] This Golden Hawk just sold for $16,000 at the auction, plus 10% Buyer's Premium; total $17,600.

    Sadly, the guy who was supposed to raise the hood fumbled around and couldn't figure out how to get it open, so it had to cross the block with the hood closed, hiding one of the more dramatic facets of 1956 Golden Hawks.


    I wrote to Mecom to see if I could get the Serial # for this car, and possibly the names of the buyer and/or seller, if that did not conflict with their privacy policy. A lady named Heidi Nidy (honest) responded saying they do not give out information on the people involved. Here is exactly what she wrote to me:
    Frank,
    I can tell you the car sold for $17,500. All other information available is online at mecum.com:
    https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0518-340608/1956-studebaker-golden-hawk/
    I can confirm the VIN # starts with 603.
    Mecum does not give out the contact information of any of our customers. Thanks for your understanding.
    Best-
    Heidi

    I asked again about the the last four digits of the serial #, and she again refused.
    I’m sorry Frank but that is not something I can share with you.
    Best-
    Heidi


    I had not seen this thread till yesterday as I am rarely on this forum. (I only check it every three or four months to see if anyone is writing nasty things about me!). Now I know all about the car thanks to Joe, Steve, and the rest of you. Sounds like the perfect "J" to drive and show! If anyone knows who the new owner is, I hope you will let me know.

    Frank A
    Last edited by 56sghor; 05-30-2018 at 10:40 AM.

  34. #34
    President Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Shorewood Illinois
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    1,292
    Frank, ask Mecum if they would forward your letter to the new owner.

  35. #35
    Speedster Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Leonardtown, MD, USA.
    Posts
    190
    Hey Frank,
    When you read this in a few months I will have had time to track down the new owner.
    Take care and stay in touch.
    Steve
    �Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.� - Red Buttons

    '56 Golden Hawk
    '63 Avanti R2
    '14 Boxster
    '64 GT Hawk R1 JT
    '37 Dictator Coupe
    '37 Dictator Coupe "slight custom"

  36. #36
    President Member t walgamuth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    lafayette in
    Posts
    4,317
    Is that seat stock in the auction car? Looks sort of puffy.
    Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

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