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Thread: What is the failure mode for aged tires?

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    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    What is the failure mode for aged tires?

    All this latest concern about age of tires has me... concerned. So it turns out that every tire on every car I have is more than 5 years old, some more that 12 years old. Some even older than that, but those are on cars that are not being driven.

    What is the failure mode of aged tires? I drive my 60 Lark at 65 or so and my 99 Honda Accord at 75-80. I never (almost never) hit potholes and my tires stay balanced for 60 thousand miles at least on the Honda. That's how easy I am on tires.

    I'm starting to get nervous about freeway driving, even in the Honda.

    How will the tires fail? When will they fail? There are 45 thousand miles on them now, but I have to check the date code. Will one of them suddenly deflate? Will they burst and splatter me against an SUV or a guard rail? Will they start to go out of balance? Will they just get slow leaks?

    Does anyone know?
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    President Member tsenecal's Avatar
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    I don't really have an answer regarding automotive tires, but the trailer tires that I have had fail, usually have a cord separation, resulting in a large bulge. I walk around my trailer at each stop, so usually catch them at that stage, and deflate them before they blow out. It seems to be very hard to find good trailer tires. As far as 10 ply truck tires, I have run them for 10 years or longer, without failure, but tire shops don't recommend running longer than 7 years. I drove Hondas for years, and they seem to be very easy on tires. I would think that it might also depend on whether they are parked out of the weather. Two of our cars get to live inside, so the tires look like new, even after a few years.

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    The born on date of manufacture is posted on the tire wall. Seven years is the max when it comes to safety. If there's no born on date on the tire you should have chucked it years ago. Better safe than sorry. I change my tires on all my vehicles every five years no matter how good they seen to appear.

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    President Member Dads Baby's Avatar
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    Just imagine this. You are driving along with your old tires on your collector car. One of your front tires has a blow out and you cross the center line and hit a family in their compact car and hurt/or kill them. Since you were such a caso on your tires, you were probably a caso when picking your limit of liability so now you will get sued and will probably feel like crap the rest of your life.

    OR a little less dramatic: You are driving along with your old tires on your collector car. One of your back tires has a blow out and rips your quarter panel apart causing thousands of dollars of damage to your baby.

    A new set of white wall tires from Coker is around $1,000 give or take. A good set of black wall radial from Discount Tire would set you back less than $500. Don't be a caso.
    Carey
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    President Member 48skyliner's Avatar
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    Now that I am retired, I don't drive a lot. My six vehicles each get driven between 1,000 and 2,000 miles a year, maybe a bit more on my Geo Metro because it is very fuel efficient and I don't mind driving it in sloppy wet weather. All of my vehicles are garaged when not being driven, so the tires don't get a lot of sunlight. I always check for signs of weather cracking when I have them up on the lift for servicing. A couple have tires more than 15 years old, and I have no concerns about driving then with heavy loads ( my truck) or in any weather or highway speeds. In 64 years of driving, I can recall one time when I had a tire go flat at highway speeds, a front tire, caused an annoying vibration, just pulled over, stopped and changed the wheel. My tires always go flat in my garage, usually from a nail or other sharp object. I think my good service experience with tires is largely because I always run high pressure, more than is optimum for a smooth ride. It seems obvious that high pressure reduces sidewall flexing, which surely is a factor in cracking. I run 40 pounds in my Studebaker tires, 45-50 in my truck, and 35-36 in my others and check them regularly.

    This whole nonsense about 5 years, seven years or whatever all started a few years ago when some clever lawyers working for the big tire companies figured out how to intimidate the customers and convince them to throw away perfectly good tires. Of course I realize that some tires sit in the hot sun all day or have other abuse factors that will reduce tire life.
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    One Sunday morning there was a loud explosion. I found the tire on my Champ ripped apart, just sitting there. The tires were nine years old. It appeared to me that the steel belts were all rusty and had seperated causing the tire to come apart. Possibly non-steel belted tires are constructed differently and can are able to not fail for a longer period.

    My Lark and Avanti had tire failure on old tires damaging the fenders. More costly than replacing tires.

    I check the date code on "new" tires to be sure they are less than a year old, and replace them at 7 years, Period.

  7. #7
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    I share both the concern over the safety of 10-year-old tires and the skepticism over how real the danger is. I have a dozen vehicles, and none of them get driven enough to wear the tires out before they reach the age of ten. They all live indoors, so there's little solar radiation damage. A couple of them (64 Daytona with no-longer-made Goodyear 195-75x15s and an Avanti II with 1.25" white wall radials) have tires on them that I can no longer find. Given that circumstance, it's not just a matter of going down to Tire World and pulling out my Visa card.

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    President Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    A lot depends on how the tires are maintained. Is the car garaged or out exposed to sun and weather? Sidewalls can dry rot and crack but cars garaged and tires kept clean and coated with tire dressing can last much longer...at least visually. The interior of the tires can break down regardless of mileage. Tires can look brand new and still age and degrade.

    My 2002 Avanti on the TransAm platform doesn't get a lot of use but remains garaged. When the car was about ten years old and still only had about 5k miles the tires started acting as if they were square rather than round. Even with such low mileage the rubber composition has changed and hardened. A new set of tires cured the condition.

    Tires and brakes are too critical not to pay attention to. Even the best are barely good enough.
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    To more directly answer your question - Different constructions of tires have different lives and failure modes. You can not compare old bias ply tires with modern radials. For steel belted radials, usually the failure mode with time (about 10-12 years) is ply separation where a large chunk of tread comes loose or off.
    I used to wear out original equipment tires in six to nine months. Now, I drive very little on any one car. I do not remember the last time (decades) that tires that I replaced were worn out (treadwise).
    Gary L.
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  10. #10
    Silver Hawk Member 53k's Avatar
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    A few years ago my son who was moving from Kansas to West Virginia had a serious radial failure. He was driving a one-ton, single-rear-wheel GMC crew-cab pulling a trailer. He put on new (unused tires) for the trip, but date code on them was fairly old. He was driving on I-64 in a work zone where both shoulders were closed off when he heard a bang and the ride changed. He had to drive some distance before he could get off the road. The tread had peeled off the right rear wheel and tore off part of the rear fender and bent the bumper. The tire did not go flat. With installing the spare he was able to complete the trip with no more explosions.

    My own personal radial failure was probably 20+ years ago. I had sold my RHD '64 GT (sold new in London) and was delivering it to my buyer near Detroit. We had debated putting new tires on it for the trip, but the buyer wanted to choose his own tires. I was driving on the Ohio Turnpike at about 65 mph when I got a loud bang from the rear. I pulled over and the right rear tire had thrown the entire tread and had gone flat as well. Fortunately I had carried tools with me and I was able to install the spare (I hadn't even checked it for inflation before I started out). While the peeled tread didn't do any body damage, it did break both LP gas fillers behind the right rear wheel and under the right rear quarter panel. I lost about 80 liters of propane. I was running on gasoline so I wasn't dead along the road and I finished the trip on gasoline and a questionable spare. I should have known better than to start out with Michelin tube-type 195x15 radials. They probably dated back in to the '60s.

    My one near-miss was on a Cooper radial. I had put a set of Cooper 225x75x15 radials on the car in Kansas (driving the car from California to West Virginia) because it seemed like the old radials were very hard. I didn't like the Torque Thrust wheels on the car so I took the car to a friend and had his crew remount the tires on a set of 6-inch steel rims he had. A few days later I noticed a bubble on the sidewall. I took the car to a local Cooper dealer. He said that whoever mounted the tire was pretty careless because the bead was damaged and the tire wouldn't have lasted much longer. So, rather than drive 200 miles to get my friend to make it good, I just had a new Cooper installed.
    Last edited by 53k; 03-31-2018 at 02:30 PM.

    Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
    '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

  11. #11
    President Member Jeff_H's Avatar
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    I made a post about what happened to the OEM tires on my 2004 F150 when they were about 11yrs old back in 2014:

    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...-bad-trip-home

    Jeff in ND

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    Tire failure

    OK Roy and guys(and girls),
    40+ years in the tire and wheel industry has let me see just about everything related to tires.
    Firstly, lets remember that the construction and materials have changed immensely. Bias ply became bias belted, nylon gave way to rayon and other polyester materials and ultimately then radial construction became the norm with steel belted tires as well as kevlar for belt support and strength. Our original tires from 60+ years ago were mostly made with real rubber. These tires were supported from the inside with very robust and forgiving tubes and liners. Now most tires have very little rubber, are of tubeless construction and are mostly made from synthetic materials which are very susceptible to breakdown from ozone, temperature and sunlight. We used to receive letters from Michelin, Goodyear, Yokohama, Toyo, Bridgestone and several other major manufacturers requesting us to not press a tire into service if we knew the tire to be over six(6) years of age. There is a lot of lee way here as the manufacturers are covering their own butts in this age of litigation with absolutely no one wanting to take responsibility for their own lives. Modern tires deteriorate from the inside out so mostly it is near impossible to foresee a tires' impending demise unless it is physically separating and the tread is distorted.
    Another factor is where the tires are being used. There is no way Bob in Phoenix will have a tire deliver the same range of service that Rich in Washington state or Gary in the northeast would receive. Heat is a killer. Those living in snow zones also usually have two sets of tires which greatly extend all 8 of the tire's longevity and performance. All 8 will also be rotated twice a year which also helps in longevity and smooth performance. Remember the Ford Explorer/Firestone fiasco back in the 90's. The initial failures were from the high heat areas of the country such as Arizona, Texas and California where not just the ambient temperatures were high, but also speed limits as well which create more flex and thus higher than normal temperatures in the tires themselves. Part of the failure was due to Ford trying to get the ride quality acceptable in an otherwise truck chassis by labeling the door decal ratings to 26 PSI. It matters not what brand of tire subjected to those initial low pressures, normal human neglect(most cars' tires are usually approximately 8-10 psi UNDER the recommended pressures) will inevitably lead to failure with extreme flex and subsequent temperature increase. We in this forum are most probably more anal about our tires' pressure and condition than the average car hating individual who sees a car as a simple device to move one around.
    I carry a laser temperature gun and when stopping for fuel on a long trip, I shoot each tire for a temperature reading. It hardly matters what temperature they are at, but rather the differential between the tires. For example, if you have just come off a 70+ mile per hour run for hours on end, all the tires should be running at fairly consistent albeit somewhat higher than normal temperatures and pressures. If one is considerably higher than the others, it is showing that it may have picked up a nail or in the case of this conversation, is starting to separate from age or normal degradation which causes excessive flexing of the tire, and thus higher pressure AND temperature.
    Like Gunslinger, my '83 Avanti rarely gets driven but last year while travelling to our local chapter meet, a discernible vibration was being transmitted from the otherwise great looking Michelins which I know is a factor of age degradation rather than obvious tread wear out.
    To be safe to both our well beings as well as our wallets I recommend replacing your tires every ten(10) years to err on the side of caution and safety. I hope this long winded explanation assists some of you.
    Happy Studebaker driving.
    Bill

  13. #13
    President Member t walgamuth's Avatar
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    My sorry tales of too old tires is with trailers. I've had two blow out doing significant expensive damage to my travel trailers. Around town is one thing sustained high speeds is another.

    Better safe than sorry.
    Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioRoy View Post

    What is the failure mode of aged tires?
    To answer the original question:

    Ignoring mechanical damage, running over curbs. deep potholes and the like -

    1. Tires fail because of internal separation of the reinforcing plies. This was a larger problem in the past than it is now with modern rubber compounds and radial construction.

    2. Tires also fail because the "rubber". which hasn't been real tree rubber for nearly a century, ages and oxidizes and loses strength because of heat and especially because of UV, ie. sunlight.

    Modern tires are far more resistant to sunlight degradation. Even parked outdoors, they're usually good for ten years or so. Continuously garaged away from sunlight, maybe twenty years.

    At twenty five years, I'd replace them "just in case".

    Check your tire pressures often enough, park the car away from sunlight, and they'll last long enough to scare you into buying new ones.

    This isn't 1960 when tires "blew-out" with some regularity. When's the last time you saw someone pulled off the Interstate with a blow-out?

    I'd also include a story about tire quality. Many moons ago our daughter had a Toyota which needed new tires. I took it to the Western Auto which sold many brands and bought four new tires, two high-dollar Michelins (about $45 ea) and two store brand ($17 ea). I rotated them every 5000 miles. After about 30K miles, the Michelins were worn out, and the cheapos were good for another 30K.

    Ever since I've bought the cheapest tires I can find. Never had a low-out or other sudden failure.
    Last edited by jnormanh; 03-31-2018 at 05:49 PM.

  15. #15
    Golden Hawk Member rockne10's Avatar
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    My experience with bias tires, 25 years. With radials, 10 or less. But there are too many variables to even begin to think there might be any hard and fast rules.
    Best advice, which most others have given: check them often, check pressures and maintain recommendations, look for any dry cracks close to the rims and between the grooves in the tread. Listen for any tone changes while driving or feel vehicle wallowing when negotiating the slightest curve. "Thump" them with a tire iron (like the professionals do).
    And, when you think they might still have some life left but you're not sure...turn them in to a backyard swing.

    But, should you experience a sudden "blowout", even on a steer tire at highway speeds, DO NOT PANIC, DO NOT SLAM ON THE BRAKES. Just release the accelerator and calmly steer in the direction you want to go. If there is little traffic you can let the car slow itself down. BTDT.
    Last edited by rockne10; 03-31-2018 at 06:30 PM.

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    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    It turns out that the Honda tires were made in February of '09 and they have lots of little cracks. Costco is having a sale, so Henry Honda will get new shoes soon.

    Bluebelle the 60 Lark has tires that were made in '05. Even though they look perfect, maybe it's time for a set for her as well.
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    I've commented on this before. I don't claim to be an expert on tires or anything else for that mater, but have read a bit on the subject. The NTSB has never given any specific guidelines on tire life, or specifics on age related degradation of tires. they indicate that there are too many variables involved in in storage and tire usage. Things like temperature humidity, inflation and UV damage. Also if a steel belted tire has been incorrectly repaired rust can damage the belts from the inside of the tire, and can go undetected. Then the NTSB throws it back at the tire manufactures, by saying that some tire manufacturers suggest tire replacement after seven years, but they take no stand in this regard.

    IMO the replacement schedule that we in the PNW can get away with, safely, because of our mild climate and relative little UV damage, a person in Texas would be foolish to try to maintain. I think that it's vary important to know your tires history and to check then often. All important is how your vehicle is used. common sense should be your guide, but I guess if you feel unsafe driving on what you have, better change them out, for your own piece of mind. I have a few cars, so if anyone in the PNW, arbitrarily decides to discard any seven year old tires, let me know I can find a good use for them.

  18. #18
    President Member Corley's Avatar
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    What is the filure mode? We'll, it CAN be serious injury or death. When I get around to it, I always replace any tires that were manufactured prior to the big war. Especially if they won't hold air any longer.
    Corley

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    Did anyone try putting inner tubes in older tires for safety?
    Some of the older rims were not designed for tubeless tires

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkapteyn View Post
    Did anyone try putting inner tubes in older tires for safety?
    Some of the older rims were not designed for tubeless tires
    I doubt inner tubes would add anything to safety. All of the strength is in the tire, which is good for 30+ lbs/sq in for decades, and probably up to 50-60 psi when in good new condition.

    I doubt an inner tube by itself will hold much more than 5 psi before it blows. All the inner tube does is prevent seepage between the tire and wheel.

  21. #21
    President Member Dads Baby's Avatar
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    Didn't we have a vendor or 2 that had serious accidents in the last 10 years? Anyone remember if they were tire related?
    Carey
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    I haven't used an inner tube since 1979 on my '73 Ford F-100 pick-up. Remember that there is increased friction when using an inner tube. Not sure if any modern tire manufacturer would recommend nor have any information about using an inner tube in 2018.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioRoy View Post
    It turns out that the Honda tires were made in February of '09 and they have lots of little cracks. Costco is having a sale, so Henry Honda will get new shoes soon.

    Bluebelle the 60 Lark has tires that were made in '05. Even though they look perfect, maybe it's time for a set for her as well.
    "Lots of little cracks" sounds like UV sunlight damage. If it's only superficial, it means nothing, since the outer layer of rubber does nothing, however...with steel belted radials, cracks which are deep enough can let the steel plys get wet, rust and fail. I think I'd replace those, "just in case".

    Made in '05 doesn't sound like an issue. If there's no obvious UV damage (lots of little cracks), no obvious faults (bulges), and plenty of tread, I'd run them summore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dads Baby View Post
    Didn't we have a vendor or 2 that had serious accidents in the last 10 years? Anyone remember if they were tire related?
    One vendor Lionel Stone had a rear tire blow out and lost control of his heavily loaded truck on the way to a National meet .(Omaha?)
    His wife was killed and he suffered major injuries.

  25. #25
    Speedster Member GTHawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzard View Post
    OK Roy and guys(and girls),
    40+ years in the tire and wheel industry has let me see just about everything related to tires.
    Firstly, lets remember that the construction and materials have changed immensely. Bias ply became bias belted, nylon gave way to rayon and other polyester materials and ultimately then radial construction became the norm with steel belted tires as well as kevlar for belt support and strength. Our original tires from 60+ years ago were mostly made with real rubber. These tires were supported from the inside with very robust and forgiving tubes and liners. Now most tires have very little rubber, are of tubeless construction and are mostly made from synthetic materials which are very susceptible to breakdown from ozone, temperature and sunlight. We used to receive letters from Michelin, Goodyear, Yokohama, Toyo, Bridgestone and several other major manufacturers requesting us to not press a tire into service if we knew the tire to be over six(6) years of age. There is a lot of lee way here as the manufacturers are covering their own butts in this age of litigation with absolutely no one wanting to take responsibility for their own lives. Modern tires deteriorate from the inside out so mostly it is near impossible to foresee a tires' impending demise unless it is physically separating and the tread is distorted.
    Another factor is where the tires are being used. There is no way Bob in Phoenix will have a tire deliver the same range of service that Rich in Washington state or Gary in the northeast would receive. Heat is a killer. Those living in snow zones also usually have two sets of tires which greatly extend all 8 of the tire's longevity and performance. All 8 will also be rotated twice a year which also helps in longevity and smooth performance. Remember the Ford Explorer/Firestone fiasco back in the 90's. The initial failures were from the high heat areas of the country such as Arizona, Texas and California where not just the ambient temperatures were high, but also speed limits as well which create more flex and thus higher than normal temperatures in the tires themselves. Part of the failure was due to Ford trying to get the ride quality acceptable in an otherwise truck chassis by labeling the door decal ratings to 26 PSI. It matters not what brand of tire subjected to those initial low pressures, normal human neglect(most cars' tires are usually approximately 8-10 psi UNDER the recommended pressures) will inevitably lead to failure with extreme flex and subsequent temperature increase. We in this forum are most probably more anal about our tires' pressure and condition than the average car hating individual who sees a car as a simple device to move one around.
    I carry a laser temperature gun and when stopping for fuel on a long trip, I shoot each tire for a temperature reading. It hardly matters what temperature they are at, but rather the differential between the tires. For example, if you have just come off a 70+ mile per hour run for hours on end, all the tires should be running at fairly consistent albeit somewhat higher than normal temperatures and pressures. If one is considerably higher than the others, it is showing that it may have picked up a nail or in the case of this conversation, is starting to separate from age or normal degradation which causes excessive flexing of the tire, and thus higher pressure AND temperature.
    Like Gunslinger, my '83 Avanti rarely gets driven but last year while travelling to our local chapter meet, a discernible vibration was being transmitted from the otherwise great looking Michelins which I know is a factor of age degradation rather than obvious tread wear out.
    To be safe to both our well beings as well as our wallets I recommend replacing your tires every ten(10) years to err on the side of caution and safety. I hope this long winded explanation assists some of you.
    Happy Studebaker driving.
    Bill
    Now we know! Rubber verses synthetic or designed obsolescence. Over my lifetime I have never had a new rubber bias ply blow out. I have a 1939 one ton Chevy truck. The bias ply tires were installed in the '50s and they still hold air and I drive it around on side roads at about 30 mph. These tires were also used on the truck when it was a milk truck so they've had plenty of use.

    Now, onto new radial tires. I had one brand new one on my tri-axle trailer that completely shredded after 600 miles. To my surprise, this tire had no steel belts at all. The tire was designed for trailers and the highest ply I could buy.

    Just the way it is now. They are not designed to last. One thing, however, make sure to keep them out of the sun.
    don

  26. #26
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    Don,
    A little known fact is that trailer tires should be run at maximum pressure(identified on the sidewall). They are usually of heavier belt construction so they don't do well with the resultant flexing that takes place when a tire is run under inflated and loaded perhaps to near capacity. Also as Rodney stated, trailer tires get no respect. They are bounced over curbs and pot holes which are usually avoided by the tow vehicle.
    Trailer tires that are built in America are difficult to find these days so yes, when parked, keep them covered so as to get as much longevity out of them as possible.
    Bill

  27. #27
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    I've had at least 2 tires blow out on cars that were sitting (thankfully) at the time. As we speak my 61 Champ has a bulge in it's r/f that will no doubt be next to go. Fortunately it's waiting for me to overhaul the carburetor so when it does go I'll be ready for it. It's around 8 years old & has 10/32nds of tread left so it hasn't seen much use but was exposed to the hot sun south of Riverside California for it's lifetime.
    59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
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  28. #28
    Speedster Member GTHawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzard View Post
    Don,
    A little known fact is that trailer tires should be run at maximum pressure(identified on the sidewall). They are usually of heavier belt construction so they don't do well with the resultant flexing that takes place when a tire is run under inflated and loaded perhaps to near capacity. Also as Rodney stated, trailer tires get no respect. They are bounced over curbs and pot holes which are usually avoided by the tow vehicle.
    Trailer tires that are built in America are difficult to find these days so yes, when parked, keep them covered so as to get as much longevity out of them as possible.
    Bill
    I do put maximum pressure in all my trailer tires and these 6 new tires were installed just before the trip. It ripped the valances all apart too. When I complained to a shop owner in Portland Oregon about blowouts after he replaced one for me. He asked how fast I was driving, I said 70. He said you can not do that, the speed must be 60 miles per hour. Interesting and it does help.
    don

  29. #29
    President Member Corley's Avatar
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    Old tires with too little air pressure will separate really quick. But, sometimes even newer tire have issues. I Had a tire about 6 years old that blew up in my face when adding air. Seems the tire shop must have damaged the rubber at the bead, because the wire in the bead had rusted and gave way. My hearing was gone for about a day, and I still have bits of rubber and rusty metal in my leg, hich was right in front of it when it exploded. Not to be messed with...
    Corley

  30. #30
    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    Henry Honda has new tires, but now he pulls to the right. How could Costco screw up the alignment installing tires? Pressures are roughly even on all four.

    I fixed the slow leak on the 60 Lark... by replacing it with TWO faster/bigger slow leaks. Hmmm....
    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

  31. #31
    Golden Hawk Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioRoy View Post
    Henry Honda has new tires, but now he pulls to the right. How could Costco screw up the alignment installing tires? Pressures are roughly even on all four.

    I fixed the slow leak on the 60 Lark... by replacing it with TWO faster/bigger slow leaks. Hmmm....
    It MAY not be an alignment issue. It MAY be a defective tire, for example with tread not in alignment with the tire. This type of thing usually happens with cheap tires or seconds.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

  32. #32
    Silver Hawk Member
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    Just swap the tires side to side and see if it changes the pull. If so, bad tire.
    , ,

  33. #33
    Speedster Member 56GH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioRoy View Post
    All this latest concern about age of tires has me... concerned. So it turns out that every tire on every car I have is more than 5 years old, some more that 12 years old. Some even older than that, but those are on cars that are not being driven.

    What is the failure mode of aged tires? I drive my 60 Lark at 65 or so and my 99 Honda Accord at 75-80. I never (almost never) hit potholes and my tires stay balanced for 60 thousand miles at least on the Honda. That's how easy I am on tires.



    I'm starting to get nervous about freeway driving, even in the Honda.

    How will the tires fail? When will they fail? There are 45 thousand miles on them now, but I have to check the date code. Will one of them suddenly deflate? Will they burst and splatter me against an SUV or a guard rail? Will they start to go out of balance? Will they just get slow leaks?

    Does anyone know?
    Roy:

    I bought a 1956 Golden Hawk in 1995 and did a restoration in 1996, including (4) 215R75-15 radials and Chrysler 5-1/2" wide rims. I never put that many miles on the car in the twenty years I owned it. In 2001 I was traveling through Orlando, FL, on Route 4 at about 55 mph to a zone meet.

    I gradually noticed a sort of thumping sound in the rear of the car but I couldn't pull over right away because of the lack of a shoulder wide enough. Suddenly, the right rear tire blew apart. When I pulled over, the steel wires had separated from the tire carcass in a huge mess, pushed my lower fender area upward and bent my fender opening trim. The spinning wires during the blow-out left pock-marks all over the bottom of the fender area and I had to peel the wires off the tire and rim. What a mess!

    Fortunately, my wife and I were not hurt and the insurance took care of the body work and painting of the fender. I never did find the fender brace though!

    Strangely, after I found a place to pull over, a big oil tanker 16-wheeler pulled up in back of me and out stepped Luther Jackson, a fellow 56J owner, who stayed with us until we got the spare on the car and continued on!

    I don't take any chances with old radials any more, even if they're only 5-6 years old!

    [IMG]Fender Trim.jpg[/IMG]
    Last edited by 56GH; 04-16-2018 at 07:25 PM. Reason: Photo addition
    Bill L.
    1962 GT Hawk

  34. #34
    President Member Jeff_H's Avatar
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    Henry Honda has new tires, but now he pulls to the right. How could Costco screw up the alignment installing tires? Pressures are roughly even on all four.
    Yup, could be a bad tire unless they actually did do something with the alignment? In the late 80s, I had a set of 4 new uniroyals put on my '79 mustang. I could barely keep it between the lines on the way home from the tire shop. The worn out tires I went in with were fine. Took the car to a different shop to have it checked out and they told me it had some bad tires on it and rotated them around so it would at least drive in a straight line... I took the info from that shop back to the tire shop and got them to replace 2 (if I recall right) of the tires.

    Those tires ended up being pretty crappy and wore out quickly. I also got a sidewall bulge in one of them that was a pain. I was 3 states away in college and the uniroyal dealer there I took it to told me I had to take the bad tire to the original shop to get my warrantee claim. So, I had to fork over non-existent $$ for the replacement tire, AND stuff that bad tire in my '79 mustang along with all my other stuff from college the next time I was back home a couple months later. Trust me, that was one overpacked mustang!

    Jeff in ND

  35. #35
    President Member
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    great stove hugger talk.... pass the jug..!

  36. #36
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    RadioRoy,
    You experienced what our industry called a "RADIAL PULL". It was always on cheaper tires and simply put, the belts were not installed correctly and thus by not being aligned internally, caused the rotation of the tire to tend towards one side or the other. Also your "bulge" was most likely a poorly manufactured belt splice. These two trends are always on cheaper brands, not typical of Michelin, Toyo, Yokohama, Bridgestone, Goodyear and such. You get what you pay for and in this age of "off shore" products, be wary of cheap as there is a reason why they sell for less. jackb, I'll take a slug!
    Bill

  37. #37
    Speedster Member 56GH's Avatar
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    As long as it has Mr. Daniel's magical elixir in it!
    Bill L.
    1962 GT Hawk

  38. #38
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    Bill, you are obviously a connoisseur when it comes to the "good stuff". Down the road from Daniels is a little distillery called George Dickel. Their motto is "If you know Jack, then you don't know Dick". I really like it, but it all boils down to personal taste.
    Happy tasting.
    Cheers, Bill

  39. #39
    President Member 48skyliner's Avatar
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    "Also your "bulge" was most likely a poorly manufactured belt splice. These two trends are always on cheaper brands, not typical of Michelin, Toyo, Yokohama, Bridgestone, Goodyear and such. You get what you pay for and in this age of "off shore" products, be wary of cheap as there is a reason why they sell for less. "

    I have owned many cars since I bought my 47 Cadillac in 1957, started driving on radials in about 1962 when I got my first sports car. I have had three sets of tires that had tread separation,all in the 1980s, in each case at fairly low mileage, and all three sets were Michelin. They never came apart, just got very lumpy and had bad vibration. About 25 years ago I started taking the advice of my tire expert at Discount Tire and ran Yokohama and Toyo tires on all my vehicles, never have had a problem with staying in balance, driving straight, traction on wet pavement, and pretty good tire life for very reasonable prices. I was always impressed with how little balance weight they required, an indication of very good manufacture quality control.

    I never had really high performance tires before, but I wanted some for my Skyline powered RX-7. I ended up with the Japanese Falken
    AZENIS RT615K, which is an amazing tire, stops as well on wet pavement as any previous tire I have had on dry pavement. If you find this hard to believe, I did also. The rubber is very soft and I think I will get about 12-14,000 miles on them, but I only drive it about 2,000 miles a year. I will put new tires on my Studebaker this summer, probably the same tires. Both cars have very powerful four wheel disc brakes and good suspension which can handle the high forces. My philosophy is that the tires only have to stop you really well one time to pay for a new set of tires.

    Falken has started making some tires in the U.S. in 2016, but the Azenis is their premier tire and is made in Japan. I would not recommend these tires for any stock suspension Studebaker.


    Regarding Bourbon connoisseurs
    I was in the fancy Orchid lounge of the St Francis hotel with my father a few years ago (1956) and he ordered a Jack Daniels Black Label (back in the day, that was 100 proof, the good stuff) and when the waiter brought it he took one sip and said "take this back to the bar tender, I think he made a mistake and gave me the green label". The waiter came back and said "the bar tender sends his apologies - he ran out of the Black label and didn't think anyone would be sophisticated enough to notice the difference. Your drinks are on the house". All these years I have wondered if he looked across the room and saw the guy pouring the Green Label. I never asked. Must have made a big impression on me - I remember it as if it happened last week.

    My selective memory has always plagued me. When I was in college I could tell you what dash number of Pratt and Whitney R2800 was in an F8F Bearcat, but I could never remember the solution to the differential equation.



    Last edited by 48skyliner; 04-18-2018 at 02:37 AM.
    Trying to build a 48 Studebaker for the 21st century.
    See more of my projects at stilettoman.info

  40. #40
    Speedster Member 56GH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 48skyliner View Post
    "Also your "bulge" was most likely a poorly manufactured belt splice. These two trends are always on cheaper brands, not typical of Michelin, Toyo, Yokohama, Bridgestone, Goodyear and such. You get what you pay for and in this age of "off shore" products, be wary of cheap as there is a reason why they sell for less. "

    I have owned many cars since I bought my 47 Cadillac in 1957, started driving on radials in about 1962 when I got my first sports car. I have had three sets of tires that had tread separation,all in the 1980s, in each case at fairly low mileage, and all three sets were Michelin. They never came apart, just got very lumpy and had bad vibration. About 25 years ago I started taking the advice of my tire expert at Discount Tire and ran Yokohama and Toyo tires on all my vehicles, never have had a problem with staying in balance, driving straight, traction on wet pavement, and pretty good tire life for very reasonable prices. I was always impressed with how little balance weight they required, an indication of very good manufacture quality control.

    I never had really high performance tires before, but I wanted some for my Skyline powered RX-7. I ended up with the Japanese Falken
    AZENIS RT615K, which is an amazing tire, stops as well on wet pavement as any previous tire I have had on dry pavement. If you find this hard to believe, I did also. The rubber is very soft and I think I will get about 12-14,000 miles on them, but I only drive it about 2,000 miles a year. I will put new tires on my Studebaker this summer, probably the same tires. Both cars have very powerful four wheel disc brakes and good suspension which can handle the high forces. My philosophy is that the tires only have to stop you really well one time to pay for a new set of tires.

    Falken has started making some tires in the U.S. in 2016, but the Azenis is their premier tire and is made in Japan. I would not recommend these tires for any stock suspension Studebaker.


    Regarding Bourbon connoisseurs
    I was in the fancy Orchid lounge of the St Francis hotel with my father a few years ago (1956) and he ordered a Jack Daniels Black Label (back in the day, that was 100 proof, the good stuff) and when the waiter brought it he took one sip and said "take this back to the bar tender, I think he made a mistake and gave me the green label". The waiter came back and said "the bar tender sends his apologies - he ran out of the Black label and didn't think anyone would be sophisticated enough to notice the difference. Your drinks are on the house". All these years I have wondered if he looked across the room and saw the guy pouring the Green Label. I never asked. Must have made a big impression on me - I remember it as if it happened last week.

    My selective memory has always plagued me. When I was in college I could tell you what dash number of Pratt and Whitney R2800 was in an F8F Bearcat, but I could never remember the solution to the differential equation.



    Actually, there have been very few bourbons that I didn't like! My taste is not that discriminating! I do like Woodford Reserve, though. Technically, Jack Daniels is not a bourbon, it's really a "Tennessee whiskey" but the name is instantly recognizable so that's why I mentioned it.

    in 1989 we bought a 1953 Champion Regal coupe from someone in Nashville, TN. We flew to Nashville and drove the Champ back home to Massachusetts where we were living at the time. On the way we made a "pilgrimage" to the Jack Daniels distillery in Lynchburg, TN. We didn't realize it at the time, but the county where the distillery is located was a "dry" county, so no sampling! Consarn it!
    Last edited by 56GH; 04-18-2018 at 01:37 PM. Reason: Photo posting problem
    Bill L.
    1962 GT Hawk

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