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Thread: 64 Commander super-thick grease in the differential.

  1. #1
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    64 Commander super-thick grease in the differential.

    Hi all, I am still researching all the great posts here. But I have a concern I'd like to throw out there for comment.

    I have a 64 Commander that has recently come to me. I'm not considering this car a full restoration candidate but I am going through everything one section at a time to try to improve safety and dependability. I found that the rear brake shoes still had good lining but both rear axle seals and pinion seal had been leaking a long while. I understand the outer axle bearing are greased and the inner carrier bearings are to get lube from the 80wt gear oil in the differential.

    When I opened the differential cover, the oil in there was literally as thick as STP... very thick. I don't feel excessive play in pinion or axles. Is this rear end for certain to have the GS5 80wt gear oil? There was never a case of thicker oil being used in them for any reason (other than wheel bearing grease on outer axle bearings? Also do the pinion bearings (front and rear) both get lubrication from the diff oil?

    This assembly had been leaking pretty bad. I am just wondering if someone hadn't put some really thick stuff in to counter the leak? or if I am just seeing well worn, very old gear oil?

    Reading the thread that mentions cleaning a diff without removing the carrier now.. hopeful I can maybe do a wash-out and re-seal and new lube.

    Thank you!!!!

  2. #2
    Golden Hawk Member BobPalma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John L View Post
    Hi all, I am still researching all the great posts here. But I have a concern I'd like to throw out there for comment.

    I have a 64 Commander that has recently come to me. I'm not considering this car a full restoration candidate but I am going through everything one section at a time to try to improve safety and dependability. I found that the rear brake shoes still had good lining but both rear axle seals and pinion seal had been leaking a long while. I understand the outer axle bearing are greased and the inner carrier bearings are to get lube from the 80wt gear oil in the differential.

    When I opened the differential cover, the oil in there was literally as thick as STP... very thick. I don't feel excessive play in pinion or axles. Is this rear end for certain to have the GS5 80wt gear oil? There was never a case of thicker oil being used in them for any reason (other than wheel bearing grease on outer axle bearings? Also do the pinion bearings (front and rear) both get lubrication from the diff oil?

    This assembly had been leaking pretty bad. I am just wondering if someone hadn't put some really thick stuff in to counter the leak? or if I am just seeing well worn, very old gear oil?

    Reading the thread that mentions cleaning a diff without removing the carrier now.. hopeful I can maybe do a wash-out and re-seal and new lube.

    Thank you!!!!
    BINGO! BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

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  3. #3
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    The leaks normally start because the vent is plugged causing internal pressure. While cleaning, look for the vent hole, about 3-4 inches inside the left spring at 3 "o" clock. Could be behind the clamp holding the brake line.

  4. #4
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    If it has never been changed from the factory, heat and age can break down the oil in this case it's thicker. I had a 62 GT Hawk that had just over 100K on it, pulled the rear cover, had to scoop the 90 weight out by hand, and shot brake clean into housing. I replaced pinion , inner and outer axle seals. Ran it around for a couple of weeks and did a drain and refill on it. Lou Cote

  5. #5
    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    Use GL-5 85/90 or 90 Wt. Hypoid Gear Oil in it.
    The original Oil used in the '50's and '60's had Whale Oil in it and was very thick looking but very slippery and able to get into small spaces like a thinner oil would do.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner




  6. #6
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    You folks are great. Thank you very much for the info. All very valuable and stuff I never really thought of.

    I did indeed have to scoop it out manually. Thick as paste at first. I'll soon be heading out to see what Napa can still look up for my crème puff. Hopeful to find brake shoes, seals, wheel cylinders, brake hoses. Master cylinder looks like something they certainly wont have.

    This is a "first car" gift for my 16 year old daughter who loves the "vintage" stuff (haha). We have other vehicles for practicality but I want this safe for her to use for some local use.
    Last edited by John L; 03-12-2018 at 06:25 AM.

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    Hi, Replace the steel lines also , Most 64 Studes had a dual master cylinder If this one does not , I would put one in. How are the seat belts ?

  8. #8
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    Yes, I actually intend to bend up all new brake lines this weekend. Thanks.
    I'd love to just replace the master cylinder for peace of mind. Do you guys have any idea of a source if one is still available?
    Seat belts seem OK, lap belts only of course, but they look like they must be newer than 1964 to me. Much of the interior has been freshened up at some point, but years ago.

    I've been searching online a little and am having trouble locating some of these items. If you all could point me to sources or offer any advice, I would sincerely appreciate it.

    1964 Studebaker Commander, 6 cylinder, automatic

    Front Brake shoes
    Rear Brake shoes
    "WE-P-42-FF-LE RELINED" is printed on the edge of one of the shoes, I forget front or back?
    Front brake hoses (need 2 - Sunsong SAE J1401 3/16 HL is printed on one of the hoses that had apparently been replaced)
    Rear brake hose (1 needed)
    Front wheel cylinders (2 needed)
    Rear wheel cylinders (2 needed)
    FD7228 is stamped on top edge of one of the wheel cylinders, I also forget which, front or back)
    Front wheel/grease seals (2 needed)
    Rear outer axle seals (2, with the steel plate shields)
    Master cylinder
    Front outer tie rod ends (2)
    any other front end items that may be available (ball joints, rod ends, pitmans, etc etc).
    Front Shocks
    Rear Shocks
    739087 is stamped on one of the shocks, front or rear?
    Automatic Transmission pan gasket, filter, screens?


    Items I already have are... diff cover gasket, inner axle seals, pinion seal, transmission tail shaft seal.

    Just trying to make it safe for her to drive a little and enjoy.

    The body doesn't have a lot of rust and the paint isn't hateful either. It must have been someones restoration prospect at some point. I have aligned all doors, hood and working to get the trunk to properly close now. Lubricating hinges, etc. Getting pumped to see it drivable, maybe in a couple of weeks if I can locate some of these items.

    Thanks for any help or direction!

    John
    Last edited by John L; 03-16-2018 at 05:27 PM.

  9. #9
    President Member RadioRoy's Avatar
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    studebakervendors.com

    They have all the parts and they know what the right parts are.

    You should also purchase the chassis parts and body parts catalogs. They have great line drawings of everything, where it goes, what it is called and the part number.
    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
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  10. #10
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    You can also check out Rock Auto.

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    I hope your daughter is different, but my belief is that a young driver's first car or two should be something that has little value and is easily replaced for a grand or two. Each of my daughters totaled a 10-15 year old Volvo. The older girl (with her younger sister aboard) was T-boned at the rear wheel by a SPEEDING distracted driver. She then went on to total a much too nice Mazda Protege on an admittedly real bad snow/ice day. The younger girl ( who was being driven to an appointment or something during the T-bone) early in her driving career went head first into telephone poles in snow (with snow tires) a couple of times. It took her two hits to finish the $1200 Volvo 850.

    They both are pretty good drivers today, but the first couple years of real road experience came at the cost of some hardware. When they had their permits, and we were putting on supervised (by me) miles, I tried to get them to spend some time on snowy parking lots to get the feel of low traction conditions. Both refused. )

    I have to think today's cell phone generations of young drivers (the ones that even choose to drive) are likely to chew up even more hardware while gaining experience.

  12. #12
    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    I agree with Dan.
    I've seen it so often where young inexperienced drivers have bad accidents during their first few years of driving. It happened to me also when I was 16. Not only do they not have the experience, but when people are young, they think they are invincible, and will live forever. They take risks that us older people have learned are foolish. After my cousin's young daughter totaled a mint 67 Plymouth, I figured the first car should be large enough to afford safety, and cheap enough to not hurt the pocketbook if it gets totaled.

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    Old trick; noisy rear end. Fill it with STP and I've even heard of a handful of sawdust too. Nice and quiet. SELL OR TRADE immediately!!

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    Old trick. Noisy rear end. Fill with STP and some even throw in a handful of sawdust; makes it nice and quiet. Then SELL it!!

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    I understand and somewhat agree with you guys, Dan and TW. Couple of qualifiers here.. Her daily driver will be the wife's retired 09 VW Beetle. The stude is her nostalgic, novelty, "first car" if you will. She will drive it to school on nice clear days, drive it to the school shows, etc. But the true first real car is gonna be the VW.


    On that subject, I am lucky. My girls, 16 and 23 years old, both have been gear heads since very young. I've personally never grown up and with me having nutty ideas... We have had family golf carts, classics, trucks, jeeps, sand and desert buggies, Rzr's, four wheelers, dirt bikes, dual sports, and motorhomes. My oldest has both driven and ridden them all and is the best driver in our family. Admittedly, better than myself even. My youngest does about the same and with some luck, will learn enough and respect enough to stay clean on the road as well. Anything can happen and some things you just can't control. But we live life while we are alive.

    But nonetheless, I paid $1500 for the commander and I'd wager the VW is actually worth way more right now. But honestly I don't care if you guys tell me that I've stumbled onto the deal of the century and this is Zsa Zsa Gabore's gifted Commander from 1964 and is worth millions from Jay Leno or Mecum. This one is hers and she will just love this thing. It's her business what she does with it. ...I do hope it IS worth millions though, her older sister is in graduate school now so I am certain youngest will be needing some cabbage herself soon too.
    Last edited by John L; 03-17-2018 at 03:53 PM.

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    Didnt see any saw dust. Have heard that too. Bearings all appear fine and aren't noisy even dry. I think it's just old and thick. Thanks though.

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    Thanks for the vendor recommendations too!!!

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    An earlier thread said stick with the Stude vendors you can find on line. I am dealing with one of them as I go through some of my issues right now and you can't beat knowledge and experience. Every question approached and answered and "there are no stupid questions".

    Working on your car can be a frustrating thing but with the right bunch behind you (they are here) it will work out...

  19. #19
    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    Hi John L, I sent you a Private Message when Logged IN, click on the Top Dark Blue Line Link, and Inbox.
    Last edited by StudeRich; 03-17-2018 at 07:44 PM.

  20. #20
    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    I went to Fleet Farm today to buy some GL-1, and was surprised that they didn't have any. I'll have to search the auto stores.

  21. #21
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    PM's returned - thanks guys.

  22. #22
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    Thick rear end oil you say ? Old rear end oil, some thick like tar.jpg

  23. #23
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    IMG_4010.jpg

    Meh, I'm not bragging or anything but this isn't a picture... It's a high-speed video.

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