H.P. Intake Manifold

[Stuhawk]

Did Studebaker ever mfg a H.P. Intake Manifold for the 289 V8 ? If so will any other 4-BBL carbs work on this manifold besides the WCFB/AFB without modification. I see where SI has an R-1 Air Cleaner
(H.P.) in their catalogue that will fit any Carter WCFB or AFB 4-BBL. Wouldn't the stock 4-BBL 289 Intake Manifold also be considered a square bore. The reason for this inquiry is whether or not a Street Demon 4-BBL carb in a (625 or 750) configuration might work on the Stude 289 4-BBL Intake manifold. I tried a Street Demon 750 CFM version on a Chevy 409 and it was a screamer right out of the box with little or no adjustments. When the air actuated secondaries kicked in it left "little doubt" whether it was working or not. I had to use an Adapter/spacer to work with the Chevy Spread Bore Intake. You just don't see much of anything after market advertised for the Studebaker 289 High Performance , etc. Just wondering what you Performance Guys are doing.

Stuhawk

[55 56 PREZ 4D]

While there are performance guys on this site, you really need to check out:

http://www.racingstudebakers.com/foo/index.php

[PackardV8]

No, there's basically just the old arn intake. The '55-62 intakes used the small Carter bolt pattern and the '62-64 used the AFB pattern. Most aftermarket AFBs/Edelbrocks are drilled for both.

The Street Demon has the Holley bolt pattern, so it and any Holley require adapters to fit the Carter bolt pattern. The additional height of the adapter can be too much to fit under the Avanti hood, as well as some C/Ks.

The other consideration is you aren't working with a 409" here. A Studebaker 289" can't even use 500 CFM of air flow; the smallest Street Demon is 625 CFM and most are 750 CFM.

Just asking, the Street Demon and Holley carbs are good carbs, but why do you not think the more easily adapted 500 or 600 CFM Edelbrock would be good enough? That's what most Performance Guys here are doing.

jack vines

[DEEPNHOCK]

Studebaker did make a few wide flange 4bbl cast iron intake manifolds that an AFB will bolt on to...and a Holley base.
They do exist, but not in large quantities, and they do not flow much more than an old square bore style.
(And the GM A/T kickdown linkage tab on the throttle arm will hit the heat crossover..unless trimmed off)



You can also get a low profile 'open plenum' aluminum intake that will allow an Avanti or '53 CK hood to close...
But they are hand built customs....



Also available are 'dual plane' intakes, both in satin and polished aluminum...
They are also hand built, and are about 2" taller than stock...



Even a low profile dual quad can happen...



Studebakers total production numbers were not high enough for a lot of the aftermarket people to spend money to gear up.
Just too small a marketplace. I have spoken to Vic Edelbrock Jr. (RIP) and we spent some time with Edelbrock foundaries discussing aluminum cylinder heads and aluminum intake manifolds... Not something for the timid CASO's out there...

So, if you want an intake, get in touch with me. I build them.
Or, if you want an adapter plate to put a (cut down modified) Chevy intake on, get in touch with Jon Kammer....

Back to your original question. Too big a carb will not give you good street performance.
625cfm is on the edge for a modified Stude engine. 750cfm would be in the full race zone...
Not impossible... Just harder to tune unless all the go fast goodies are working un unison...

Did Studebaker ever mfg a H.P. Intake Manifold for the 289 V8 ? If so will any other 4-BBL carbs work on this manifold besides the WCFB/AFB without modification. I see where SI has an R-1 Air Cleaner
(H.P.) in their catalogue that will fit any Carter WCFB or AFB 4-BBL. Wouldn't the stock 4-BBL 289 Intake Manifold also be considered a square bore. The reason for this inquiry is whether or not a Street Demon 4-BBL carb in a (625 or 750) configuration might work on the Stude 289 4-BBL Intake manifold. I tried a Street Demon 750 CFM version on a Chevy 409 and it was a screamer right out of the box with little or no adjustments. When the air actuated secondaries kicked in it left "little doubt" whether it was working or not. I had to use an Adapter/spacer to work with the Chevy Spread Bore Intake. You just don't see much of anything after market advertised for the Studebaker 289 High Performance , etc. Just wondering what you Performance Guys are doing.

Stuhawk

[3x2stude]

On the racing site Jeff Rice does modified Mopar intakes. I make adapters to put a small block Chevy intake on the Studebaker. Jeff's intakes will be lower than the adapters but the adapters give you the ability to experiment with different manifolds.

[Stuhawk]

No, there's basically just the old arn intake. The '55-62 intakes used the small Carter bolt pattern and the '62-64 used the AFB pattern. Most aftermarket AFBs/Edelbrocks are drilled for both.

The Street Demon has the Holley bolt pattern, so it and any Holley require adapters to fit the Carter bolt pattern. The additional height of the adapter can be too much to fit under the Avanti hood, as well as some C/Ks.

The other consideration is you aren't working with a 409" here. A Studebaker 289" can't even use 500 CFM of air flow; the smallest Street Demon is 625 CFM and most are 750 CFM.

Just asking, the Street Demon and Holley carbs are good carbs, but why do you not think the more easily adapted 500 or 600 CFM Edelbrock would be good enough? That's what most Performance Guys here are doing.

jack vines

PackardV8,
I dont have a problem with the WCFB that is on the car now but even if you rebuild the (WCFB) carb that doesn't guarantee the drive ability or reliability . Most if not all rebuild kits do not furnish the wear parts that are actually needed like throttle shafts , etc. that are worn and suck in unwanted air and someone else has probably already tinkered with it. I once installed an AFB (700) on a 366 Chevy in a tandem dump truck and also bought the deluxe tuner kit with it and set it up and made some tweaks and it ran like a house afire. You could hear the secondaries open up 1/4 mile away. We also had a 1966 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser Wagon with a 330CI engine and a humongous 4-BBL Quadrajet. I think that was a 650/700cfm if I remember correctly. I flipped the ac lid upside down and it would draw way more air and when you slapped her down in passing gear and the secondaries opened up........it was music to your ears. I know that theoretically speaking that Quadrajet is too big a carb for a little 330CI but it came from the factory like that. It seems some engines due to the larger stock valve size and flow characteristics can handle bigger carbs. I'm just looking for an engine (289) that is peppy with good performance and sounds good out the tail pipes. If it had a little High Lift Cam and a slight rumble that would be Great too!
I don't have anything against Edelbrock but I have never owned one. I'm sure they make some good carbs. I know they all can be frustrating at times and sometimes no amount of tinkering/rebuilding will make it right. At least that's been my experience. I'm confident that you Performance Guys on SDC "Know Your Stuff" and that's why i'm asking. Thanks for your help.

Tom

[Stuhawk]

Boy !!, those are some really nice pics. Thanks to all for sharing them. As a side note with today's 3D Printers you would think it possible to come up with a H.P. Intake Manifold for the Studebaker 289 relatively easy for someone in the know. Anyone out there ?

[PackardV8]

I don't have anything against Edelbrock but I have never owned one. I'm sure they make some good carbs. I know they all can be frustrating at times and sometimes no amount of tinkering/rebuilding will make it right. At least that's been my experience.

Agree; over the years I've worked on carburetors, I've heard cursing at Carter, Rochester, Holley, Edelbrock, Weber and even Strombergs. Your experience is what it is, but in my experience any carb can be made to work if one has the time and talent.

What is true is that we shadetrees just aren't always good and patient enough to find and fix all the problem areas. In more cases than I can count, I've been asked to change carbs/manifolds when the problem was ignition or valves.

After forty years of carb work, I finally got a O2 meter. Then I found out how much I didn't know about carbs.

Bottom line - There's no such thing as a carb that "no amount of tinkering/rebuilding will make it right." They'll all work and work well if built and tuned by someone with the tools and experience to get them in sync with the rest of the engine combination. As you mentioned, GM tuned 750 CFM Quadrajets to work well on 300" engines. No matter how great they sounded, the secondaries never fully opened; just enough to flow what the engine could use.

I'm just looking for an engine (289) that is peppy with good performance and sounds good out the tail pipes. If it had a little High Lift Cam and a slight rumble that would be Great too!

Build a 299"/305"/308" with 9.5 compression, an R2+ cam, your choice of carb and intake and smile every time you drive it.

jack vines

[Stuhawk]

Build a 299"/305"/308" with 9.5 compression, an R2+ cam, your choice of carb and intake and smile every time you drive it.
jack vines

Jack,
Now That's what i'm talking about. Down to the "meat and potatoes" !

[345 DeSoto]

I built the 289 in my Sky Hawk with .030 over flat top pistons and R1 valve springs. Per advice I gleaned from this Site, I topped it off with a "Box Stock" Edelbrock 1403 500CFM and the necessary spacer...to clear the linkage. Replaced the points in the Delco distributor with a Pertronix Unit, and added a few degrees timing advance, to take advantage of the alcohol free 89 octane regular. With the 200 4R transmission, it's not a "screamer", but BOY does it fly...

[64studeavanti]

With .030 over flat tops and the shim gasket you should pushing 10.5 to 1 compression. Maybe a bit much for 87 octane. If you used the thick gasket, you are still close to 10.0 to 1.

What cam are you using?

Which head?

[bezhawk]

Why no mention of the Evans intake? It is specifically made for Studebaker engines, not modified from something else.

[345 DeSoto]

I'm using Stock cam and heads for a 56 Skyhawk 289...

[DEEPNHOCK]

Ken did copy another intake design to make his.
Ken can handle his own marketing and sales. He's a good guy.
I do have an opinion on the technical aspect his intake, and have one of his intakes on my shelf as inventory for sale.
Bought the second one he made and had it benchmarked on a flow bench for raw data.
If someone wants to talk intakes, give me a shout.

Why no mention of the Evans intake? It is specifically made for Studebaker engines, not modified from something else.

[DEEPNHOCK]

Stu... You asked a good question, and were provided with answers and a lot of info....a stuffed and loaded potato.
And then said all you wanted was meat and potatoes. No butter. sour cream, chives, bacon bit, and 'stuff'.
If you want the raw, basic, caso answer to your question.
Pull off your WCFB intake and strip it clean.
Grab a die grinder with a rotary burr and open up the secondary bore to match the AFB secondary bore.
Trim at GM A/T kickdown linkage tab off the AFB (see pic)
Re-route your fuel inlet line. Add an AFB sized air filter.
Fire it up, adjust it, and go have fun.
You can do this upgrade for just the cost of the carb and air filter and a little labor.

Build a 299"/305"/308" with 9.5 compression, an R2+ cam, your choice of carb and intake and smile every time you drive it.
jack vines

Jack,
Now That's what i'm talking about. Down to the "meat and potatoes" !