The Purpose of Unions in Modern America

[t walgamuth]

See that seems like a blatant generality. Are some leaders crooks, yes. But I am certain most are not.

[stall]

I think unions have a place but IMHO I have to agree with FDR; public employees should be exempt. I'ts not hard to find evidence of politicians buying votes with public monies that eventually bankrupt the city or state.

[Packard53]

I also agree that private unions have their place but not public employees unions. I came to this conclusion the hard way by having to deal with a teachers union for 6 years while serving on a local school board.

John S.

[t walgamuth]

I was on the school board here. I disagree about the teachers association. Teachers need the protection because after a period of time they are virtually locked into their school systems because of the expense of hiring experienced teachers so getting employment anywhere else is virtually impossible.

I do think all unions would serve their profession better when they help managment deal with deadbeat employess.

My dad and both my grandfathers and at least one uncle were either Studie employees or Ball Ban. Dad was a stewart for a year and quit because he was expected to get guys hired back when they showed up for work drunk.

My Paternal Grandfather was the Union president at Ball Ban and an alcoholic, though he never drank while working and worked without incident until he retired.

I agree with the guy who said Unions created the middle class. They also fought for the weekend and the 40 hour week.

[8E45E]

Some may remember staying at the Riviera Hotel in Las Vegas in 1989 which was a unionized hotel. It took three staff members to get a photocopier from the basement storage area to one of the meeting rooms; someone from Maintenance to take it from the basement storage area to the hallway, just outside the door of the room it was requested, then a Room Service staff member to move it from outside the door to where the guests wanted it. Then finally, an Electrician on staff to come up, plug it in the wall, and turn the machine on.

I have seen this kind of activity operate in schools from an early age, where a teacher was not allowed to clean up if something such as glue or paint spilled in the artroom, as an example. He or she had to call the custodial staff to perform the cleanup work. It was beyond the teacher's 'scope of work' as outlined in union documents.

Craig

[t walgamuth]

Some may remember staying at the Riviera Hotel in Las Vegas in 1989 which was a unionized hotel. It took three staff members to get a photocopier from the basement storage area to one of the meeting rooms; someone from Maintenance to take it from the basement storage area to the hallway, just outside the door of the room it was requested, then a Room Service staff member to move it from outside the door to where the guests wanted it. Then finally, an Electrician on staff to come up, plug it in the wall, and turn the machine on.

I have seen this kind of activity operate in schools from an early age, where a teacher was not allowed to clean up if something such as glue or paint spilled in the artroom, as an example. He or she had to call the custodial staff to perform the cleanup work. It was beyond the teacher's 'scope of work' as outlined in union documents.

Craig

Why would you want the teacher to clean up a mess? Who's gonna tend to the kids while she is doing that?

[Commander Eddie]

I think the relevance of unions today may hinge on the industry they represent. The only union to which I have ever belonged was SAG (Screen Actors Guild). The members of this guild work in an industry that is rife with money and the potential for corruption. The purpose of SAG has been, and still is today, to protect its members from the abuse of power and being victimized financially for the work they do in this industry.
I have always felt protected by SAG and they have stayed out of controversy for the most part. I always got my checks and residual checks (I still get them to this day), and their representation has been solid and fair.
All that being said, the entertainment industry is far different in many respects to other industries. A strong union for actors is still useful and needed. I cannot speak for other industries, however. (Your results may vary) as they say.

[rockne10]

Greed corrupts. Power corrupts.

The corruptible seem very attracted to power. And when the job of the union becomes maintaining itself at the expense of its members it loses any support I may have given it.

Locally, construction workers were contracted to replace window air conditioners in a classroom building, but were not permitted to plug them in; that fell to the electrical workers. And if the teachers happened to plug them in the electrical workers would walk out.

The unions have certainly greatly improved the lives of the blue collars, and in some industries are still sorely needed. But, in many cases, both sides have entirely dropped the ball on common sense.

[Skip Lackie]

Some may remember staying at the Riviera Hotel in Las Vegas in 1989 which was a unionized hotel. It took three staff members to get a photocopier from the basement storage area to one of the meeting rooms; someone from Maintenance to take it from the basement storage area to the hallway, just outside the door of the room it was requested, then a Room Service staff member to move it from outside the door to where the guests wanted it. Then finally, an Electrician on staff to come up, plug it in the wall, and turn the machine on.

I have seen this kind of activity operate in schools from an early age, where a teacher was not allowed to clean up if something such as glue or paint spilled in the artroom, as an example. He or she had to call the custodial staff to perform the cleanup work. It was beyond the teacher's 'scope of work' as outlined in union documents.

Craig

This was called featherbedding back in the 1950s when the railroad unions continued to demand steam-era work rules for diesel-era operations. It drove nearly all of the railroads in the Northeast US into bankruptcy.

[stall]

Some may remember staying at the Riviera Hotel in Las Vegas in 1989 which was a unionized hotel. It took three staff members to get a photocopier from the basement storage area to one of the meeting rooms; someone from Maintenance to take it from the basement storage area to the hallway, just outside the door of the room it was requested, then a Room Service staff member to move it from outside the door to where the guests wanted it. Then finally, an Electrician on staff to come up, plug it in the wall, and turn the machine on.

I have seen this kind of activity operate in schools from an early age, where a teacher was not allowed to clean up if something such as glue or paint spilled in the artroom, as an example. He or she had to call the custodial staff to perform the cleanup work. It was beyond the teacher's 'scope of work' as outlined in union documents.

Craig

I can relate, in my other life I had occasion to be in charge of getting our machine tool machines into the convention center and setup for the show. I was given a $1,000 in $20s and five $100 bills to bribe the union guys to do there job, that was the first one. The next show in Indianapolis I needed three times that cash and the fork truck guys wanted free drinks at the bar across the street.

If you didn't pay they wouldn't move your goods or plug in your displays. BTW all our displays simply required plugging in a standard plug, they were all prewired. Of course this required a "tip".

[rockne10]

This was called featherbedding back in the 1950s when the railroad unions continued to demand steam-era work rules for diesel-era operations. It drove nearly all of the railroads in the Northeast US into bankruptcy.

Well, to be fair, much of what depressed the rail market was the Interstate Highway system. It provided fast and safe short and long haul by truck rather than by rail.
The Autobahn was brilliant in a country the size of Germany. Applying it to the U.S. created millions of jobs for highway construction and maintenance workers, as well as the drivers and vehicle manufacturers; also opening a vast tourist industry to the newly burgeoning middle class.
But it sure didn't serve the rail industry well.
And, in retrospect, our goods would still be so much cheaper if we could have moved them by a well-maintained rail system.
We remain damned if we do and damned if we don't.

[8E45E]

Why would you want the teacher to clean up a mess? Who's gonna tend to the kids while she is doing that?

That is how a teachers' UNION LEADER would look at it!!

Craig

[t walgamuth]

That is how a teachers' UNION LEADER would look at it!!

Craig

You didn't answer the question.

[48skyliner]

It was a beautiful spring morning in 1961. I was a lieutenant working as an observer to the Titan I missile base construction. At this particular base about 20 miles from Denver, I walked into the supervisor's trailer, and the boss seemed very concerned about the weather. He said it had rained all weekend, and everyone had missed out on the opening days of the fishing season. Sure enough, a few minutes later someone came running in and said there was trouble down in the silo. Some electricians had been working over the weekend stringing some wires. A 2x4, serving as a hand rail on the scaffold, was in their way, so they removed it. Now on Monday morning the carpenter noticed this and started complaining that this was carpenter's work, the electricians are not allowed to do wood work. The carpenters went on strike to protest and all the electricians, mechanics, pipefitters, etc went out on "sympathy". They all got in their cars and left, presumably to go fishing. Naturally, the Corps of Engineers colonel approved work the following weekend to keep on his precious schedule and the workers got paid double time for working the weekend.

The stereotype image of the highway construction crew with one guy working while five other guys stand around drinking coffee was certainly in evidence at every phase of the missile construction I observed on both Titan I and Titan II bases. I don't even want to begin talking about the quality of the work done.

[t walgamuth]

It was a beautiful spring morning in 1961. I was a lieutenant working as an observer to the Titan I missile base construction. At this particular base about 20 miles from Denver, I walked into the supervisor's trailer, and the boss seemed very concerned about the weather. He said it had rained all weekend, and everyone had missed out on the opening days of the fishing season. Sure enough, a few minutes later someone came running in and said there was trouble down in the silo. Some electricians had been working over the weekend stringing some wires. A 2x4, serving as a hand rail on the scaffold, was in their way, so they removed it. Now on Monday morning the carpenter noticed this and started complaining that this was carpenter's work, the electricians are not allowed to do wood work. The carpenters went on strike to protest and all the electricians, mechanics, pipefitters, etc went out on "sympathy". They all got in their cars and left, presumably to go fishing. Naturally, the Corps of Engineers colonel approved work the following weekend to keep on his precious schedule and the workers got paid double time for working the weekend.

The stereotype image of the highway construction crew with one guy working while five other guys stand around drinking coffee was certainly in evidence at every phase of the missile construction I observed on both Titan I and Titan II bases. I don't even want to begin talking about the quality of the work done.

Well, that was in 1961. Its a different world out there for unions now. RR changed all that when he fired all our air traffic controllers in the eighties. Unions that survive have learned to be much more reasonable in working with their employers.