Ah, yes! Another artful way to apply artificial valuation on something with no inherent value at all. I all ways thought the Federal Reserve had a monopoly on creating this fantasy. Now, comes along cyber currency, bit coins and the ever loving stock market.Originally Posted by pinehurstbob
I'm glad my Studebaker's have some real value, at least to me, and CASO I may be, I'm still not fooled by the bit coin con.
Bo
For the past 20 years I've been attending the Mopar Spring and Fall Flings in Van Nuys. The swap area went all the way back to the rear of the property. Every year it trickles down a little more. It is now less than 50% of what it use to be. And this is billed as "The Largest Mopar Event West of the Mississippi." I hate to see what a lesser event is like.
The car culture boom began with people who were born in the late 20's/early 30's. Most of those people are either in or rapidly approaching their 90's. I'll say 1972 was the "pull back" year for performance and at least from the manufactures the point of decline. If you were 20-25 back in '72 you are between 60-70 now.
So, the greater age group of the car culture interest are people 60-90 years old. Fear not it won't completely die. And the premiere cars will always exist but it is those cars across the middle, the "drivers" and "want to be drivers" (project cars) that will slowly trickle off to China as our survivors "clean out that junk" we left behind. I think what went on this year in Arizona is a foreshadowing of things to come. Not every car and every part out there in the desert found a home regardless of one man's valiant effort to leave something behind when the time came.
'64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-69 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.
I never heard of bitcoin until a couple days ago, and this is exactly my thoughts about it also.
A passage from Travels with Charley (1962): "Preparation for the winter in New England is drastic. The summer population must be large and the roads and highways gorged with refugees from the sticky heat of Boston and New York. Now the hot dog stands, the ice-cream parlors, the curiosity shops, deerskin-mocassin-and-glove places, were all shut- tered and closed, many of them with cards saying 'Open Next Summer.' I can never get used to the thousands of antique shops along the roads, all bulging with authentic and attested trash from an earlier time. I believe the population of the thirteen colonies was less than four million souls, and every one of them must have been frantically turning out tables, chairs, china, glass, candle molds, and oddly shaped bits of iron, copper, and brass for future sale to twentieth-century tourists. There are enough antiques for sale along the roads of New England alone to furnish the houses of a population of fifty million. If I were a good businessman, and cared a tittle for my unborn great-grandchildren, which I do not, I would gather all the junk and the wrecked automobiles, comb the city dumps, and pile these gleanings in mountains and spray the whole thing with that stuff the Navy uses to mothball ships. At the end of a hundred years my descendants would be permitted to open this treasure trove and would be the antique kings of the world. If the battered, cracked, and broken stuff our ancestors tried to get rid of now brings so much money, think what a 1954 Oldsmobile, or a 1960 Toastmaster will bring—and a vintage Waring Mixer—Lord, the possibilities are endless! Things we have to pay to have hauled away could bring fortunes. ~ JOHN STEINBECK
Travels with Charley 1962
Last edited by Geigs; 12-17-2017 at 09:35 AM.
Prophetic. 1960 Toastmaster! Mid Century! Art Deco! Machine Age! Space Age! Now up for bids on eBay!
1963 Champ "Daisy Stu Bludebaker"- sometimes driver
1957 Silver Hawk "Josie"- picking up the pieces after an unreliable body man let it rot for 11 years from an almost driver to a basket case
1951 Commander Starlight "Dale"- basket case, next project after the Hawk
1947 Champion "Sally"- basket case
1941 Commander Land Cruiser "Ursula"- basket case
I'm not quite a millennial. I was born in 1984. But I love my old cars and the hobby. I enjoy old tractors and antiques as well. I use technology when it is helpful, but it is not something I invest free time in. I'd much rather work on restoring something. I will say that it is difficult for me to find a friend my age that is interested in my hobby. Most of my friends are older. I hope that my kids are interested in the hobby. Anyhow, rest assured that not all us young people are interested in technology. I do feel that there will be a swing away from all this digital and back to more old school interaction.
I can relate because, I like I said earlier, next to nobody in the class of '79 cared for Studebakers because they weren't some diyecieyent kayewell new Trans Am.
I have to wonder if a kid the not being interested in anything that isn't computerized is just a update on a kid not being interested in anything that doesn't include a ball?
I was wondering if values crashed and if many brass era cars got sent to the crusher went the flivver generation mostly died off? Or since I heard that the values on the other pre-war cars have crashed, how many of them ended up abandoned or crushed?
1963 Champ "Daisy Stu Bludebaker"- sometimes driver
1957 Silver Hawk "Josie"- picking up the pieces after an unreliable body man let it rot for 11 years from an almost driver to a basket case
1951 Commander Starlight "Dale"- basket case, next project after the Hawk
1947 Champion "Sally"- basket case
1941 Commander Land Cruiser "Ursula"- basket case
The steam-punk trend seems to be raising so who knows...
Josephine
-55
Champion V8
4d sedan
Aren't Studebakers more Dieselpunk (Art Deco) and Atompunk (Googie) depending which side of the double ender you are? I'm born in '60 and I strongly associate Studebakers with the '50s and Googie.
1963 Champ "Daisy Stu Bludebaker"- sometimes driver
1957 Silver Hawk "Josie"- picking up the pieces after an unreliable body man let it rot for 11 years from an almost driver to a basket case
1951 Commander Starlight "Dale"- basket case, next project after the Hawk
1947 Champion "Sally"- basket case
1941 Commander Land Cruiser "Ursula"- basket case
I'm also lucky enough to've been born 1960 & I just mean that since steam-punk is raising it's a good thing for old stuff, even Studebakers...
Josephine
-55
Champion V8
4d sedan
Think what a pristine I-Phone 4 will sell for in 2050. Everyone gets nostalgic, but for different generations it is different things.
----
Basically the Millennial generation is the first to see a decline of prosperity in this country since the end of the Depression. They were told to go to college to get a good job. For many that doesn't work out. The education cost are higher than they ever were and the well paying jobs..., well there are less jobs than there are people educated for them. Who told them that was a reality?
So, yes, I get it. I taught at a community college and I saw the typical Millennial - often. It can be very frustrating. But if you were 18 years old facing significant education debt for a "possible" career to pay higher taxes what would be your motivation? The simple truth is the government went into significant debt to keep people of past generations content and kept kicking the can down the road. The past 10 years are the first time a generation is feeling the "bite." I'm not trying to give Millennials a "pass" but previous generations helped shape the world they live in with false "everyone gets a trophy" expectations, endless unrealistic hope ("you can be ANYTHING you want to be"), and a financial burden they themselves had little to do with its largeness. While previous generations built a great nation it is the same generations that let things slip to where they are. Discipline was lacking. Millennials are only half responsible for being themselves.
They are being judged by a generation that went through a depression, fought in a major war and worked hard to build the nation. From my perspective the Baby Boomer (that would be me) and older generations were given/took more than was practical regardless of their difficulty early in life. And fearing they won't get their share Millennials are asking for their slice of the pie up front. Selfish? You decide. It will be interesting to see what the generation that follows Millennials does..., and is called. Those who persevere are likely to be called something like "Survivalist."
Last edited by wittsend; 12-17-2017 at 08:11 PM.
'64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-69 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.
Really?
I happen to take exception to that.. As well as StudeJohn and asesolen (Mike).. I am class of 79 and older than John and Mike (not by much) Keep your TA Bandit car..
However, I think class of 79 is not a brand or year specific generation. I enjoy 50's Fords, 60's Larks, and 70's/80's Datsun and Toyota sports. But I also can not expect a generation that live in fear and filled with apocalyptic movies look beyond themselves and drive something that will not someday drive itself..
I'm in my 60s and love going to the car shows that the young millenials are going to. They're called "vape meets" around here. Its all done via texting and done impromptu. No one knows where or when they are going to happen, but there is usually a small cadre of instigators who will get it started and they will then send out texts. But by the time you get there, its time to go to the next location. So everyone gets in thier cars and hit the road to the next location. Sometimes its a Sonic Burger, In N Out Burger, or an abandoned parking lot.
These "kids" are driving some pretty hot cars. Mercedes, SRTs, WRXs, and a wide variety of import and domestic rides. Some are even getting in the new "van kulture". Minivans which are bagged, pimped, and customed to the hilt. Its pretty awesome.
So, if you're trying to get in with the latest carshow craze and you're looking for it printed on a flyer, you're gonna miss it. These "meets" don't even get started till about 10 PM. Get the smart phone out, get texting and go meet some of the young crowd. We do. It reminds me of when I was thier age, rebelling against the old farts who didn't understand what we were doing by jacking up the back of our cars and cutting open the exhaust.
Now its all about style and speed.
sals54
Please explain to me how this is any different than credit cards when they first appeared in the 1950s. There were plenty of naysayers at that time. What about loans? And banks for that matter? Werent those silly fantasies at one time (much further back in time, of course)?
I'm trying to get my head wrapped around that one. If any individual display deserved "Best Presentation Award" at this year's MCACN, this REAL van would have earned my vote; right down to the Bicentennial plate surround by a Grand Spaulding Dodge frame!!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/797730...posted-public/
Craig
Shaggin wagon!
Millenials have been so inundated with gas prices and getting fuel economy that they dont want old gas hogs. They cant afford to drive them, or sit in traffic with them. Many dont have a place to store them when not driving them. They dont have the bells and whistles. Millenials, many of them at least, dont want to work on a car.... they want to get in and go and have a reliable vehicle.
Do you pay $20k for a reliable somewhat restored older car that gets 12-15mpg or $10K for a newer car that gets 30-40mpg? For a millenial living check to check, thats a no brainer financially.
1960 Lark VIII Regal Wagon...
Check the Blog @ http://thisoldstude.blogspot.com
Will be updating sooner or later. It has been a long time since I have posted anything.
Anyone want to trade a 3spd for a FOM?
I think I saw this guy lurking around the van! Enlarge (click on) picture.Shaggin wagon!
'64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-69 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.
They were all backed by US dollars, Bitcoin isn't.
Gary L.
Wappinger, NY
SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer
I think bitcoin is much the same as the instruments listed by creegster (with the possible exception of bank deposits). None of them are true US dollars. In all cases (including bitcoin) you take it on faith that the instruments can be converted to US dollars. Same with stocks and bonds, and wire transfers for example. There are scammers on all monetary instruments (including printed money), but (so far at least) you can convert legitimate bitcoin purchases to US dollars and visa versa in the same way you can convert the paper mortgage on your house or a stock certificate or the retailer can convert a credit card purchase. None of the above are "backed" by the US government with the exception of bank deposits in certain institutions to a set maximum amount.
Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA
Agreed: also, when loans and banks were first invented, well before the US EXISTED, those were probably considered crazy by some and some people swore they would never trust them. Crypto is just a new monetary vehicle that some dont trust. And that is fine that some dont trust it; its always good to have skeptics.
A lot of these posts are funny to read (as a millenial, born 1994) the future will be the same as it has been. Older cars will always be easier to work on without all the sensors, and cheaper to get mechanical components for. Plus, nothing currently has a impressive body the way vintage cars have. I grew up with my dad's coral and gray 1955 chevy. I was hooked on old cars since. A custom red bullet nose got me hooked on studebakers, and a 1960 Hawk in the garage slowly being restored helps fuel the passion even more.
I'd have to say from my experiance you are in the rare minority. My kids grew up in my shop with me working on some 40+ year old car, bike or whatever, and I rarely drove anything newer. Neither of them, or any of their friends have ANY interest in vehicles at all. None of them even drive or have a license, even though they've been old enough for years (my oldest is about your age); they're just not interested.
I don't understand it, heck, I built my first motorcycle from a derelict at 12 and got my license at 15 1/2 and my first car (an old wreck I had to fix) at 16 like every other kid at that time.
That's not these kids. These guys and girls are rollin in some high dollar rides. I'm talkin about 5year old Mercedes, with expensive rims and tires, custom paint jobs worth more than my car. Porsches, Lexus, and rare imported cars from Europe and Japan. These are very custom and fast cars. Many have aftermarket turbos and superchargers. These are hard working millenials with jobs and money and cool fast cars.
So what line of work are these flush Millennials in? It's just frustrating because I flirted with success with Fun Rockets, and maybe InterStellar OverDrive, and it didn't pan out. Yesterday, I was wondering if I missed a calling by not getting into computers right out of high school in 1979. But I've heard that was feast and famine and trying to correctly pick out of endless shifting trends.
1963 Champ "Daisy Stu Bludebaker"- sometimes driver
1957 Silver Hawk "Josie"- picking up the pieces after an unreliable body man let it rot for 11 years from an almost driver to a basket case
1951 Commander Starlight "Dale"- basket case, next project after the Hawk
1947 Champion "Sally"- basket case
1941 Commander Land Cruiser "Ursula"- basket case
We as car people have always been a small portion of the population. Today we are just becoming a smaller portion. I envision no end to the current trend. To most of society we are a bit crazy, otherwise why would we put so much of our time and money into a car that we can't or won't drive every day. The world continues to move in a direction that we are not in concert. Worrying about something over which we have not control is useless.
The same fringe group of gearheads still carry on, but in that group the Tuner rules. To believe that the tuners will suddenly fall in love with our old iron is just naive. Just like many on this forum know little about, or couldn't care less about the pre war cars, so too will the next group move away from the post war cars.
Our group will continue to get smaller, and the ongoing sifting out process of lesser cars will continue, as well. All orphan car groups continue on the same course as we in the Studebaker world. We should feel fortunate that Studebaker was in production as long as it was, because it insures that it will survive longer then most orphan car groups. Celebrate what we have, we are very fortunate to be were we are and have what we do.
Yes, what Hallabutt said. Just think what we would have to settle for if Studebaker never built cars. We really are lucky. Merry Christmas everyone.
Merry Christmas.jpgMerry Christmas.jpgMerry Christmas.jpg
What? Do you put that ("Fun Rockets, and maybe InterSetellar OverDrive") on a resume??? I've seen this posted before and it is confusing???
Millennials primarily refer to people born in a specific time period. "Millennials" refers to specific actions and attitudes that befuddle previous generations. There were likely "Millennials" (actions and attitudes) during the Baby Boomer, Gen X and Gen Y period also. There were just likely less of them and called a different name. So, you can be a Millennial (time wise) and still be as hard working and goal minded as any other generation. These are the Millennials that are making a decent living. To answer the question; They are the doctors, lawyers, financial investors etc. Or you can be a "Millennial" who was taught that everything should be given to them. But as I stated up in Post #55 it takes (the lacking action of) a parent to raise the "Millennial." So only put half the blame on them.
'64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-69 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.
Fun Rockets did go on the resumes for technical jobs. InterStellar OverDrive (without the maybe) went on the resumes for commercial art jobs. They both had a lot good time and good effort in them. 0ne was a promising model rocket company that was screwed up by a dumb partner. The other was a Johnny Bravo meets Futurama in an Atompunk universe down to the peacock pompdours, cyclops babes, and gold anodized chrome trefoils before that stuff existed dealie was screwed up by the Heroes World comics distribution crunch.
http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...1&d=1513818536
http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...1&d=1513818552
Last edited by DougHolverson; 12-20-2017 at 07:28 PM.
1963 Champ "Daisy Stu Bludebaker"- sometimes driver
1957 Silver Hawk "Josie"- picking up the pieces after an unreliable body man let it rot for 11 years from an almost driver to a basket case
1951 Commander Starlight "Dale"- basket case, next project after the Hawk
1947 Champion "Sally"- basket case
1941 Commander Land Cruiser "Ursula"- basket case
With that explanation in the post above (#69), yes, you should have gone into computers. I'm doubtful it is now a lifetime career but at least it would have had a decent employable run. Very few jobs today are safe from downsizing or extinction. 20 years ago I sat around as my education colleagues discussed that students back then were likely to change job fields as many as six times in their lifetime. It is likely more so now. I think that is yet another reason Millennials are hesitant to enter the work force. The life cycle of many jobs is so short. It seems a difficult task to be early 20's get a good paying job, marry, buy a house, start raising kids..., and then have your job disappear. I realize that this has always existed, but it is more common place today and happening in a faster cycle.
The world of either working at one place for life or moving upwards as so many previous generations did has far fewer opportunities for people today. And except for Walmart door greeters finding a job (especially in a new filed) after 50 is extremely difficult.
'64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-69 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.
Round these parts, the Millenial issue tends to be one of either money or interest. As a general rule, if they have the interest, they don't have any money. If they have any money, they don't have an interest.
Around here we joke that 30 years from now video game shows will have replaced car shows. Long tables of geeks with white hair playing the vintage video games. That said, I don't think the car hobby dies out. After all, you can't drive a video game down the road and get head turned, a wave, or flash of the headlights.
They can come in fresh to our Studebaker realm and not have any preconceived stereotypes about a 289 Ford Engine, that they are still building them in Canada, or that 65-66's aren't real Studebakers because of GM engines, etc. etc......
Maybe they'll be more likeable than most of the people my age were?
Then they better NOT read today's current crop of magazines: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...per-in-Post-62
Craig
It is not all that long ago, but I found plenty of jobs after I was 50. The thing is that many older people would not take these jobs because it was less of a job and paid less than their previous employment. Some examples of jobs that I did take after primary "retirement"; substitute teacher in secondary schools, new & used car salesman, airline crew shuttle driver, limousine chauffeur. I was also offered many jobs that I did not take like working in a garage/auto shop.
Gary L.
Wappinger, NY
SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer
Well, there is "having a job" and being able to pay one's bills with what the job pays. Many I know have taken early retirement simply because it paid more than the jobs they could find. And these were not necessarily financial irresponsible people either. Thankfully I am frugal, planned a head and saved tenaciously to stave off hardship when my $66 an hour teaching job vaporized. But most others aren't in such a position even though they might have been deemed "financially moderate" (reasonable) in their spending. It is not like a person made $60,000 a year and now they have to take a $45,000 job and can barely get by. More often it is they made $80,000 and now they consider themselves fortunate if they can get a $25,000-$30,000 job that they can't even exist on (as a family).
Some people are more easily discouraged than others. And I think some otherwise reasonable Millennial's look at the current situation and ask, 'What is the point? I went to college and will make less than my father but pay more in taxes.' It is not that some want to be lazy (thought I'm sure many are) rather they are hopeless to see a future with a positive outcome.
Last edited by wittsend; 12-21-2017 at 10:52 PM.
'64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-69 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.
Back to the original question, I don't think it is up to the newer generation to save a hobby. It is up to the current collectors to infuse that passion in the younger perspective collectors. Be the best ambassador possible, and they will want to partake in things you are interested in. Be a grump on a couch criticizing, and they will make it a point to avoid interactions. Attitude. it is important.
Bez Auto Alchemy
573-318-8948
http://bezautoalchemy.com
"Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln
OMG Hit the nail on the head ! Get them involved , show them how it works, we all know its coming to an end..But at least we can say we imparted our knowledge to the next generation. How about a 53 starlight coupe with a bad ass high torque electric drive train?
Last edited by lumpy; 12-21-2017 at 09:38 PM.
Bolding is mine in the above quote not the original poster.
I can't disagree about being a good ambassador. But (regarding the bolded text) you have a car company that went out of business because of lack of interest from buyers. You have a car brand that with the exception of a few specialized cars/individuals hasn't set the world on fire with interest. After all, I read a lot here about, "the days when I bought a used Studebaker for $50 ... ." Now you have a generation that has little interest in driving and if they have any interest in cars at all they are imports. And somehow "they WILL WANT to partake in things you are interested in." If only it were that easy to get them to "want" anything that an authority figure was presenting.
I'm thinking there is better chance of a change with the generation after the Millennials. I say that with a 50% probability because either the next generation will be worse than the Millennials..., or they will be completely opposite and defy their parent world view and cars like Studebaker will be vogue again. What seems sad to me in this matter is that so many people have gone to great strides to provide NOS, used, remanufactured, new parts for Studebaker's. And as I hear, "If no one comes to get it this week it is headed to China" it seems such a valiant effort slipping away and finding no home. Other car brands/models suffer from just the opposite.
'64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-69 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.
Instead of renting a banquet hall, we held our daughter's graduation parties in my barn. The reaction of the young "kids" to my cars was amazing. They about wore the door hinges out, sat inside them in groups, and I did not mind. You'd all be surprised at how much they've heard from their families about Studebaker around this locality. Some knew their Grandfathers or Great Grandfathers worked there. And, it's positive memories. Untainted by the layoffs, the pension dilemma, and all the other baggage people my age carried.
These kids have got a lot to get through before they can get to ownership. Heck, the past decade, I had to lean on what I earned before the last decade to get my two through college. I've toyed with liquidation to pay their way several times since 2008. Student Loans, the first real job, etc. I know where they are at because I came into the working world in the early 1980's. A very similar time to today (Remember the "Death of the Convertible?). It took me several years until the late 1980's to get established. I'm certain these kids will have an interest once we get going again, and they get some breathing room.
I think the main difference between the future hobby and the one we knew is the death of the quest we had for originality. I don't think they will put up with the maintenance and related issues with an original car. But nostalgia will return, and they will want a piece of it.
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