Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ye olde valve rocker arm adjustment problems- 1955 259 V8, Presiident State

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Engine: Ye olde valve rocker arm adjustment problems- 1955 259 V8, Presiident State

    It might be my imagination, but I don't think so. Car is worse after valve adjustment for clicking and clacking. Actually did this twice with the same result- maybe I'm insane- doing the same thing twice and expecting different results:
    1) Using remote starter, determine that #1 cylinder is coming up to UDC (thumb over #1 cylinder and wait for confirmation pressure. Set damper on UDC mark. Set #1 cylinder valves (both of 'em)- in my case .026 for both. Check gap with .026, .025 and .027. for confirmation- good slide, loose slide, tight slide respectively between rocker and valve.
    2) Connect test lamp between distributor primary on coil and ground. Bring engine around manually until light just comes on. About 1/4 of the dampener circumference from 1st setting.
    Set both valves on 2nd firing cylinder, in my case #8.
    3)Continue as above, adjusting valve gaps in cylinder firing order when test light comes on- both valves on each cylinder until you get through 'em all.
    4) Replace Air filter ,valve covers etc.
    5) Start engine and listen to clicks and clacks..
    6) Take a bite out of a tree trunk and spit it at your engine.

    I checked my feeler gauges with an electronic caliper, they were all a little on the light side, but not much. Timing was checked but unaffected. Maybe there were a few clicks and clacks before. Maybe I'm just more sensitized now. Any advice will be appreciated and evaluated. Thanks in advance.
    cws

  • #2
    There are times when wear has made indentations in the valve stem tips and rocker arm tips which are bridged by a feeler gauge. This results in greater clearance than the feeler gauge indicates.

    A check of this is to use a dial indicator on a magnetic base. Place the tip of the dial indicator stem on the rocker arm in line with the valve stem. Rotate the engine to the correct TDC and manually manipulate the rocker to show actual on the dial indicator.

    Also, wear on the cam lobes will make some more noisy than others. A thou or two less than spec is sometimes necessary to quiet them.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Jack-
      Thanks for the advice. It is quite easy to bring everything in a mil or two. Not sure I really want to mess around with the dial indicator. I'll have to see if I can find one to try. Appreciate your thoughts on this.
      cws

      Comment


      • #4
        Here are two of the ways I do it -

        EO/IC rule (Exhaust Opening and Intake Closing) -
        Set the intake valve lash when the exhaust valve is beginning to open. This will put the intake lifter at the base circle which is where you want it to be. Then set the exhaust valve lash when the intake valve is about halfway down on the closing side.

        TDC method -
        Bring each cylinder up to "top dead center" set both the intake and exhaust to the desired value.
        NOTE - The damper ring should be marked every 90 degrees for this method. This is easy to do by cutting a piece of string 1/4 the diameter of the outer diameter of the damper plate, then mark the damper at the ends of the string, starting with the factory TDC position. Use a file to mark the plate for future valve adjustments.

        Either of these methods work very accurately...as long as the user knows how to properly use a feeler gauge...that is a "light drag" on the gauge..!

        Note - for the cleanest, easiest to complete, and a NO BURN on the hands...complete the adjustment (overnight) cold.
        This is MUCH more accurate method than doing with the engine running, and much less hassle and potentially more accurate than with the engine hot and stopped.

        Mike

        Comment


        • #5
          As recommended in my shop manual I always adjust my valves with the engine warm and running. It's messy but quicker and more accurate and only requires a wrench and the feeler gauge. Also, remember that Studebakers use solid not hydraulic lifters and a little "clicking and clacking" is normal. If there is no noise they are probably adjusted too tight. Not good!

          Comment


          • #6
            I adjust them cold, or warm, engine off.

            If there is a false read on the feeler gauge due to wear on the rocker face (indicated by a circle worn into the face), that is easily fixed. Remove the rockers and re-radius them, on a bench grinder with smooth stone. Its not rocket science, just follow the contour and use light, gentle swipes to remove material till the circle disappears. Then smooth it a bit on a wire wheel and you are done. The 56J rockers are especially prone to wearing a circle into the face, and I consider this just routine maintenance anytime the rockers are removed. Seldom had to do it on a 259/289 though, probably because they get a lot more oil to the top end.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rbisacca View Post
              As recommended in my shop manual I always adjust my valves with the engine warm and running. It's messy but quicker and more accurate and only requires a wrench and the feeler gauge. Also, remember that Studebakers use solid not hydraulic lifters and a little "clicking and clacking" is normal. If there is no noise they are probably adjusted too tight. Not good!
              I second this. This is just about what I was about to input - running engine and they should not be silent.
              Gary L.
              Wappinger, NY

              SDC member since 1968
              Studebaker enthusiast much longer

              Comment


              • #8
                Running...
                You will NEVER see any sort of racer (boat, car or airplane), professional or otherwise mechanic worth his/her proverbial salt...adjust rocker arms with the engine running..! I've been around all of these, never in my 66 years have I seen valve clearance adjusted with the engine running. They leave that to the folks that know better I guess.
                Not just an opinion. It is NOT more accurate, matter of "fact" it's just the opposite.

                I know for fact just how easy it is to NOT get clearances correct with an engine running. And if one does, it's pure luck. I've seen a few claim how good they are at this, and have been able to prove them wrong every time.
                This topic comes up every now and again, with the same comments all around, and will still be able to show mis-adjustments in 99.99% of the try's.

                You want proper mechanical cam adjustments, do it static.
                You want proper hydraulic cam adjustments, do it hot and running.
                Don't mix them up.

                But...it's your engine, do as you wish for those that wish to perform this adjustment in this manor.

                Mike

                Mike

                Comment


                • #9
                  This is the way I always do the valves in mine. Always cold, and always on the small side when gapping. Some will say its better to have some clatter. I prefer to have as little noise as possible. Its fast, easy and I haven't broken anything with this method in almost 50 years.

                  Get #1 to Top Dead Center
                  Exh.- 1 – 3 – 4 -8​
                  Int.- 1- 2 – 5 - 7 ​
                  ​
                  Get #6 to Top Dead Center
                  Exh.- 2 – 5 – 6 – 7​
                  Int.- 3 – 4- 6 - 8​
                  sals54

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten View Post
                    Running...
                    You will NEVER see any sort of racer (boat, car or airplane), professional or otherwise mechanic worth his/her proverbial salt...adjust rocker arms with the engine running..! I've been around all of these, never in my 66 years have I seen valve clearance adjusted with the engine running. They leave that to the folks that know better I guess.
                    Not just an opinion. It is NOT more accurate, matter of "fact" it's just the opposite.

                    I know for fact just how easy it is to NOT get clearances correct with an engine running. And if one does, it's pure luck. I've seen a few claim how good they are at this, and have been able to prove them wrong every time.
                    This topic comes up every now and again, with the same comments all around, and will still be able to show mis-adjustments in 99.99% of the try's.

                    You want proper mechanical cam adjustments, do it static.
                    You want proper hydraulic cam adjustments, do it hot and running.
                    Don't mix them up.

                    But...it's your engine, do as you wish for those that wish to perform this adjustment in this manor.

                    Mike

                    Mike
                    Mike,
                    I agree, I'd never do it again. Did it once, and its a good way to make a real mess with spilled and spewed oil. I saw somewhere, a valve cover modified with the top cut out, to allow access to the adjusters, yet cut down on the oil mess. Adjusting valves with motor running is old school technology, and may even be in the Stude Shop Manual. I recall my dad, who was a mechanic, using that method on OHV six cylinder cars when I was a kid. I see no benefit now though, over doing it with the motor shut down, and cold or warm.

                    Regardless of method, once adjusted, there should be a light tic. When the tic gradually goes away, about 10,000 miles down the road, the time for next adjustment is drawing near. I adjust them to around .030", and get 14,000-16,000 with hardened exhaust valve seats, and 10,000-12,000 with regular seats. Its time for adjustment when it begins to rock a bit, while idling. The exhaust valves close up and lose clearance, but the intakes close very little, if at all, between adjustments.
                    Last edited by JoeHall; 07-23-2017, 05:24 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Avanti Workshop Manual, (Engine page 20) - Valve Clearance. Engine Cold: "Use only for initial adjustment--must be followed by hot adjustment". Engine Hot: "With engine at slow idle...........".

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A narrow bladed "Mini Feeler Gauge" will gige you a better adjustment result hot or cold, running or static. Try it. Luck Doofus

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten View Post
                          Here are two of the ways I do it -

                          EO/IC rule (Exhaust Opening and Intake Closing) -
                          Set the intake valve lash when the exhaust valve is beginning to open. This will put the intake lifter at the base circle which is where you want it to be. Then set the exhaust valve lash when the intake valve is about halfway down on the closing side.

                          TDC method -
                          Bring each cylinder up to "top dead center" set both the intake and exhaust to the desired value.
                          NOTE - The damper ring should be marked every 90 degrees for this method. This is easy to do by cutting a piece of string 1/4 the diameter of the outer diameter of the damper plate, then mark the damper at the ends of the string, starting with the factory TDC position. Use a file to mark the plate for future valve adjustments.

                          Either of these methods work very accurately...as long as the user knows how to properly use a feeler gauge...that is a "light drag" on the gauge..!

                          Note - for the cleanest, easiest to complete, and a NO BURN on the hands...complete the adjustment (overnight) cold.
                          This is MUCH more accurate method than doing with the engine running, and much less hassle and potentially more accurate than with the engine hot and stopped.

                          Mike
                          Mike-
                          I really like the string idea- save a lot of wear and tear and maintain accuracy. All of my measurements have been done "cold"- I've already got enough of a mess. Thanks for our thoughts.
                          cws

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I know, I am one of the least qualified forum members to comment on this topic. (But when has that ever stopped me?) Especially, given the credentials/credibility of some who have already posted. Evident here, is that there is more than one way to adjust valves. In my many years of tinkering with all sorts of engines, I have found that people develop "expectations" from the bulk of their experience. Therefore, if your experience is mostly with hydraulic lifter type engines, your expectation will be a running "sound" of that type engine. Very little valve clatter.

                            Folks unfamiliar with solid lifter engines, especially occasional mechanics, giving only a slight glance at an instruction manual, and relying on their "expectations," will invariably try to adjust the valve train for quiet running. Somewhere here, we are missing something. It is not the technique, nor the noise...

                            How 'bout PERFORMANCE??? Hot, cold, running, or static...get 'em adjusted. I have used a couple of the above mentioned techniques (with equal ineptitude of my talents.) Once they are opening, and closing, on time, in time...the performance trumps technique, or accompanying clatter.
                            John Clary
                            Greer, SC

                            SDC member since 1975

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The valve adjustment procedure may not be the issue. I went through the same issue and still had noisy lifters. For a totally unrelated issue I removed the rocker assemblies and found several of the small oil holes supplying oil to the rockers plugged with debris and therefore there was no oil, that is what was clattering not the adjustment nor the procedure.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X