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Thread: eBay : - 1964 Studebaker R2 Gran Turismo Super Hawk

  1. #1
    President Member SScopelli's Avatar
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    eBay : - 1964 Studebaker R2 Gran Turismo Super Hawk

    Looks like another R2 equiped car on eBay.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/142368943502

    VIN 64V19830


  2. #2
    President Member thunderations's Avatar
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    I saw this car in Cortez, CO 2 years ago at a local car show. We were traveling across the country, towing our Studebaker behind the motorhome. We were one of five Studebakers, (had the 66 Daytona) in a 100 car show, and this 64 GT is everything that the ad says. I'm not really big on black cars, but I'd take this car in a heartbeat. Has to be one of the nicest 64's I've ever seen and the documentation is a big plus. I have no ties to this car, but just thought I'd pass on what I know about it. Owner was a heck of a nice guy too.
    The show was on a cloudy day and when the clouds started to look threatening, the owner fired it up and took it home before any raindrops fell.
    1966 Daytona (The First One)
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  3. #3
    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    That is REALLY TOO BAD!

    It just destroys the correctness of a really nice otherwise correct GT Hawk, when someone does not measure a correct Car or at least eyeball a Pic or something of a correct Decklid. before drilling Nameplate holes etc.
    Not Jet Green1.JPG 64 R2 Red7.JPG

    It does not take a Tape Measure to SEE that major error. > Black R2 PS.jpg
    Last edited by StudeRich; 05-02-2017 at 07:35 PM.
    StudeRich
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  4. #4
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    Another non-auction on an auction site. It does appear to be a great car with just a couple of exceptions.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

  5. #5
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    Yep. It is destroyed. Should just haul that old junker off to the crusher, recycle it into a Mitsubishi Mirage.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by studegary View Post
    Another non-auction on an auction site. It does appear to be a great car with just a couple of exceptions.
    Just like the gold Hawk emblem on the glove box lid instead of the correct chrome style - easy to correct for such a nice example of a '64 GT.

    \"QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER\"
    MELBOURNE.

  7. #7
    President Member 63 R2 Hawk's Avatar
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    Nice Hawk! I was confused about the "rare transistorized ignition system (updated to Mallory ignition by Petronix)". Was transistorized ignition an option in '64 and who was the company that made it?

  8. #8
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    Just completed the purchase of the 64 GT Hawk depicted herein. The owner, J Wayne McCarey, retired Colonel, USAF, and his lovely wife, Shirley, are simply wonderful and gracious people! Wayne had retained just about every original provenance item possible! Smooth transaction. I got in the car, fired her up, and drove 414 non- stop (2 refueling) miles to my residence. Ran like a top!
    Wayne had previously entered the "Super Hawk" in 37 shows and had received awards in 34 of them. The car was judged three times at the "Regional" or National levels. He received two seconds, and after 8 years of making corrections, finally received a "first" Surprisingly, at no time were points deducted for the "Gold" Hawk on the glove box!!

    As a newbie to the site, I will be reading to learn more about these rather unique cars. BTW: My car was built on December 19, 1963, the second to the last Hawk to roll off the line. The last one no longer exists so Studebaker National Museum sends a letter telling Wayne that his car (now mine) is the last Hawk ever produced. Cool letter.

    Rick

  9. #9
    President Member PeterHawk's Avatar
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    The chevron on the interior driver's side door panel should be red/white/blue and I don't think the "caution" decal should be on the fan shroud.

    Peter Bishop
    Director,
    Northeast Zone

  10. #10
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    None the less, Beautiful example of a "Rare Bird" Nice find!

    Jim
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  11. #11
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    Rick: The letter you reference from the SNM is wrong. The very last Hawk built, serial # 64V-20197, produced on 12/20/63 does indeed still exist. It is unfortunate that some people make such erroneous statements, especially when they are in a position that many folks consider to be authoritative.

  12. #12
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    nevadarick, Congrats on a wonderful acquisition. It makes my original GT pale by comparison. I guess I have some serious work ahead.
    Cheers, Bill

  13. #13
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    Absolutely correct. Wayne did receive point deductions for these items. I intend to correct them when able! Many thanks for the input.

    Rick

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    If it does exist, where is it? Any documented evidence of its existence? I'm sure not disputing what you suggest; but, without documentation or substantiation, I obviously would tend to believe SNM!

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    As long as were discussing this car, I have a question. I've been told that anywhere from 5 to 17 examples of the 64 "Super Hawk" with the option 37--High Performance Package, still exist. Can anyone enlighten me on a more accurate number of the remaining cars and the basis for their opinion? Many thanks!

    Rick

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevadarick View Post
    If it does exist, where is it? Any documented evidence of its existence? I'm sure not disputing what you suggest; but, without documentation or substantiation, I obviously would tend to believe SNM!
    I will tell you, I know the owner and I know the car. Do not doubt that it does exist.

  17. #17
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    I have the original of the letter from SNM. I believe that Studebakercenteroforegon ( in a different post on the same subject matter) is correct. The letter reads, "There is no evidence that the one GT full-package Hawk with the R-2 engine survived that was manufactured after this (my car) R-2 full package Hawk. If that is indeed the case, this (my car) is----The last surviving GT full-package R-2 Hawk built at the Studebaker plant before it closed on 20 December 1963".

    I hope this helps clear up any confusion. I'm an absolute newbie to the site and welcome all comments or remarks, critical or otherwise (as long as they are polite, please)

  18. #18
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    Hopefully, I have corrected and clarified my earlier "misstating of the SNM letter. Now, can anyone answer my question about the absolute/finite number of remaining GT full-package Hawks with the R-2 engine? Thanks and apologies for the wrongdoing,

    Rick

  19. #19
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    Rick, a beautiful GT Hawk. Welcome to our world. As you said you would, take advantage of this forum. There is no end to what one can learn.
    Perry
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  20. #20
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    Hello Rick, just some general info that might be of help to you. My R1 GT was built on December 20th, 1963, and you are reading the SNM letter correctly in it's statement that your R2 full package Superhawk is at this point the last one of this status to survive. The leading "expert" on all the "R" series cars built is George Krem, and hopefully he might chime in to give you more info. His cousin, Bob Palma, is also very knowledgeable with production orders. Glad to have you with us, enjoy that beautiful car. Bill

  21. #21
    President Member jbwhttail's Avatar
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    I own the first full package R2 GT off the production line for 1964 as validated by Bob Palma. My wife and I looked at the New York auto show car three years ago, it came off the assembly line the day after mine. It also was a full package car in Astra White. So the 1st and 2nd cars still exist

  22. #22
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    Bill and JB--thanks for the input and reply. Now, can anyone tell me just how many 1964 GT, R-2, full package cars are still around/in existence? I've heard between 5 and 17; but, that's a rather large gap!

    Rick

  23. #23
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    Beautiful Hawk, nevadarick! Congratulations!
    -Matt

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  24. #24
    President Member jbwhttail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevadarick View Post
    Bill and JB--thanks for the input and reply. Now, can anyone tell me just how many 1964 GT, R-2, full package cars are still around/in existence? I've heard between 5 and 17; but, that's a rather large gap!

    Rick
    I would guess the number to be closer to the 17 or more,two Bordeaux red and one Black one were at South Bend last week. Add the show car and one I know of in Texas and we get five not counting yours. As people age we will see more appear.. nice ride you purchased.
    It is an addiction!

  25. #25
    Silver Hawk Member Guido's Avatar
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    Unless a minuscule number of any particular model were produced, it would be impossible to accurately know how many still survive. They can be hidden away and only be known by one or two people or owned by people not associated with the Studebaker hobby.

    Case in point, I was in NAPA about a decade ago getting a master cylinder for my '62 4x4. I ran into a local chapter member who has a '63 Avanti his mother bought new. As we were standing in the checkout line I looked out the front window and saw a black '63 GT Hawk. I loudly asked who owned the Studebaker and the man in front of me said it was his. So there were 3 Studebaker owners in line at the NAPA.

    It turns out he bought the car new, he wanted an Avanti but his wife would not let him spend the money. He ended up getting a R-2 Hawk with 4 speed. He was not a SDC member and I have never seen the car again.

    I have personally sent 4 Studebakers overseas so they can end up anywhere.
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  26. #26
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    My R1 was purchased with another 64 GT in a package deal. The other was a full package R2 that was built for the 64 auto show circuit. It was 1 of 7 GT show cars built for that purpose. I ended up selling it and it now resides in Oz, where it will be getting a thorough complete restoration. In doing research on it I found that James Bell in Washington state owns one and there is the one in New York. The count is adding up so who knows how many we'll end up with. Bill

  27. #27
    President Member Lou Van Anne's Avatar
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    Sprint Phone Photo's 076.jpgThis is my R2 full package 64 GT....otherwise known affectionately know as my problem child. Close to finally having her road worthy....I hope. S/N 64V11322
    (If you really want an R2....I'd consider trading for a fully equipped A/C version?)
    Lou Van Anne
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  28. #28
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    Beautiful GT and I like the Aero Strut wheelcovers. The door handle guards are installed upside-down. Beautiful car nonetheless.
    Bill Pressler
    Kent, OH
    (formerly Greenville, PA)
    Currently owned: 1966 Cruiser, Timberline Turquoise, 26K miles
    Formerly owned: 1963 Lark Daytona Skytop R1, Ermine White
    1964 Daytona Hardtop, Strato Blue
    1966 Daytona Sports Sedan, Niagara Blue Mist
    All are in Australia now

  29. #29
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    Hey Bill;

    It must be my elderly eyes. I just looked at the Red R2, full package 64 GT in the post two above this one (several times, now). I just can't tell that the door handle guards are installed upside down on my car--they look the same as the Red one. Do you have pictures as to how they are suppose to look?

    Thanks for any help,

    Rick

  30. #30
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    Hey Bill;

    having looked at many pictures of the door handle guards, I think you're right. The left was installed on the right side and the right on the left side. Because they can only go on one way, they are now upside down--correct?

    Rick

  31. #31
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    That's right, Rick. Probably half the Studes I see with them have them installed upside-down, left-on-right-side and vice-versa.

    Studebaker Accessories brochures of the '60's show them always with the straight/flat edge on the bottom. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any pics of those particular pages in any of the brochures, online.
    Bill Pressler
    Kent, OH
    (formerly Greenville, PA)
    Currently owned: 1966 Cruiser, Timberline Turquoise, 26K miles
    Formerly owned: 1963 Lark Daytona Skytop R1, Ermine White
    1964 Daytona Hardtop, Strato Blue
    1966 Daytona Sports Sedan, Niagara Blue Mist
    All are in Australia now

  32. #32
    Speedster Member 56GH's Avatar
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    There's a picture of door handle guard AC-2699 on page 13 of the Fred K. Fox article on the 1962 Gran Turismo Hawk in an old issue of Turning Wheels. (It notes that handle shown is pre-1961 style.). It apparently verifies Bill Pressler's contention that the straight part is at the bottom.

    Excuse the poor quality of the photo. My page copy is not that good either.

    SCAN0001.jpg




    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Pressler View Post
    That's right, Rick. Probably half the Studes I see with them have them installed upside-down, left-on-right-side and vice-versa.

    Studebaker Accessories brochures of the '60's show them always with the straight/flat edge on the bottom. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any pics of those particular pages in any of the brochures, online.

  33. #33
    Speedster Member TXmark's Avatar
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    If you want to get your car critiqued this is the place to get it, you must take in stride. I saw your car on ebay when it was first posted, I think you got a great buy, If I wasn't car poor and near retirement I would have bought it. Welcome to the forum


    Quote Originally Posted by nevadarick View Post
    Hopefully, I have corrected and clarified my earlier "misstating of the SNM letter. Now, can anyone answer my question about the absolute/finite number of remaining GT full-package Hawks with the R-2 engine? Thanks and apologies for the wrongdoing,

    Rick
    Mark Riesch
    Wilmington, NC

  34. #34
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    Hopefully Rick isn't so thin-skinned. These are all things I'd want to know if I had just bought a car, and I saw many "beautiful car" comments here.
    Bill Pressler
    Kent, OH
    (formerly Greenville, PA)
    Currently owned: 1966 Cruiser, Timberline Turquoise, 26K miles
    Formerly owned: 1963 Lark Daytona Skytop R1, Ermine White
    1964 Daytona Hardtop, Strato Blue
    1966 Daytona Sports Sedan, Niagara Blue Mist
    All are in Australia now

  35. #35
    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevadarick View Post
    Bill and JB--thanks for the input and reply. Now, can anyone tell me just how many 1964 GT, R-2, full package cars are still around/in existence? I've heard between 5 and 17; but, that's a rather large gap!
    There is also a 'large gap' in condition, which leads one to say there is no up-to-the-minute finite number of survivors.

    They range in condition from this one: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...yles&styleid=1

    to this one: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...-64-GT-project and this one: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...-on-Craigslist

    And there is (was) a former showcar rotting in the woods that probably has been parted out by now.

    Craig
    Last edited by 8E45E; 05-18-2017 at 08:54 PM.

  36. #36
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    Hey Guys;

    I really appreciate the comments. Having practiced trial litigation and being "in the trenches" for more than 40 years, my hide is pretty tough. I'm not going to cry over being told that my door guards were installed the wrong way or that an interior emblem is backwards. To the contrary, I like knowing what is incorrect with my car so that I can remedy the issue. PLEASE, keep the comments coming. I love em!

    I'm still trying to determine if there is a known number of surviving 1964 R2, "full package" cars remaining. I have no idea where certain dealers come up with their estimates of between 5 and 17!

    Rick

  37. #37
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    I can post a few current pics of my 64 GT (and some of my other collectibles); but, don't know where or how to do it (if it can be done at all--newbie at work!)

    Rick

  38. #38
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    Ok, OK, so I might never know how may of my car models might still exist. I went to place it on my Grundy Insurance policy (stated value) and they asked me what I thought the car was worth. I know what I paid for it; but, have NO idea as to the car's replacement or stated value. Any help out there?

    Rick

  39. #39
    Golden Hawk Member BobPalma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevadarick View Post
    I can post a few current pics of my 64 GT (and some of my other collectibles); but, don't know where or how to do it (if it can be done at all--newbie at work!)Rick
    Welcome aboard, Rick; you do have a pretty car.

    As for the door handle guards, it's easy to see how they should be installed if you consider their function. As someone approaches the car to open the door, their fingernails are more likely to strike above the door handle than below it. Therefore, the broader (wider) protective surface would go on top.

    To post photos here, it is a good idea to open a Photobucket account. It's free. Post your photos to Photobucket and then copy the link to the appropriate photo, using the img tab they offer you. Paste the link here in your posting and it will appear as your photo when the post is opened.

    As others have said, it is impossible to know how many are "left" of a given make or model. Is a stripped, rolled-over car that has rusted down to nothing at all, languishing in a northern, rust-belt junk yard, "left?" Probably, assuming the Serial Number plate is intact and readable, but how would you even find it, much less account for it? Other nice cars may be in collections not associated with Studebaker and unknown to the Studebaker world.

    For example, the nicest collector car I own is my 1973 Mustang convertible with 17,902 actual miles on it as I type this. All original paint, and it is even sitting on all four production-line tires with the spare never down. But I've never belonged to a Mustang Club and if you asked 100 "Mustangers" in the Indianapolis area if they knew of the car, I doubt any of them do.

    A friend of mine who was president of that club maybe 30 years ago asked me to show it as a "benchmark" at a major Mustang Club meet at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway back then and I did. But he was killed in a motorcycle accident (hit from behind by a drunk driver at 11 o'clock in the morning on a bright, sunny day!) shortly thereafter, so his knowledge of the car died with him. I don't know of anyone else who would remember it. (I bought it January 3, 1976. It turned 17,000 miles as I drove it home, so you can see that it doesn't get a lot of exposure!)

    Anyway, welcome to SDC. That sure is a nice Hawk, but it is impossible to know how many are "left." BP
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