Electrical: Weird electrical/charging issue...maybe

[60 Lark]

I've got a 1960 Lark V8. Bought it about 6 months ago. Was a barn find that PO got running and gave it parts it needed (shocks, brakes, carb etc)
I put a new battery in it and had the starter rebuilt. The thing starts right up and runs great. The problem is after I drive and park it or stop it (like to get gas, or get some lunch) When I turn the ignition, the engine barely turns over. If I keep on the ignition, she'll eventually start...most of the time. Now here is the weird part. If I let it sit over night, or even longer...for days and go to start her, she fires right up with a full push from the starter/battery. I hate having to carry a jump starter and worry about having to leave her some where.

Any thoughts or insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[rkapteyn]

Rebuild the starter using new bushings.
When the bushings wear. the armature will rack up on the stator when it is hot.
Robert Kapteyn

[TWChamp]

What Robert said is a very likely cause, but since you said the starter was rebuilt, I would think the bushings are new or very good.
I know this modern crap gas boils at a lower temp than the old good gas, and this will cause flooding and starting problems, but it sounds like you are having cranking problems.

[doofus]

If the starter bushings are good chances are armature is dragging from heat swelling. a good starter shop can spot this and "Shave" the armature down a few thousandths to stop the dragging.Luck Doofus

[fh4ever]

make sure your battery cables are in good shape and your ground connections are good. I just replaced my cables (6v) with heavy duty 1 ga. tractor cables and what a difference. I agree with the comments on the starter bushings too...and did they really replace the bushings? I fought that issue for years on another car...I strategically parked on a hill in case I needed a roll start.... it was a starter bushing all along.

[RadioRoy]

Starter and generator "professional" rebuilds are a crap shoot in my experience. IMO, the starter should be suspect until it is proven to be good. I have seen new bushings pressed into end caps with elongated holes, so the bushing moves out of position.

[Jeffry Cassel]

Above is true; the starter may not work well when hot. Open the hood when you go in for lunch. I personally would be worried about the engine. If you run hot and turn it off it will actually get hotter (no water circulating) be fore it cools. If you are running Pennzoil or Walmart oil it'll run right off hot parts (cylinder walls). the pistons expand when hot and a ton of friction can result ( not good.) Try to turn over the engine manually; if you can that's good cause the problem is likely the starter or the starter cable. If you cannot then the engine is tight when hot; You'll need to cool it off and use a good oil such as Valvolene SAE 30 or40. (not mutigrade) And don't forget ZDDP and you might want to put in some STP. Run a 160 degree thermostat. Take its temperature after it has warmed up an the set 10 min. Use an infrared thermometer so you can check various places and look for hot spots. Pennzoil is notorious for varnish in the engine. If its been run on it for a while that sticky nasty vile stuff could contribute to your problem.

[60 Lark]

Thanks for all of the info guys. Here is a few questions to your posts. Is a normal starter cool to the touch when the car is running and if so, would I be able to tell if mine is getting hot by feeling the case? If my pinion gear is not completely disengaged from the fly wheel, could that cause it to overheat? Would I hear any strange noises if my pinion is hanging up? Rkaptyen, what does "rack up" mean? Jeffry, what is ZDDP?

[RadioRoy]

Thanks for all of the info guys. Here is a few questions to your posts. Is a normal starter cool to the touch when the car is running and if so, would I be able to tell if mine is getting hot by feeling the case? If my pinion gear is not completely disengaged from the fly wheel, could that cause it to overheat? Would I hear any strange noises if my pinion is hanging up? Rkaptyen, what does "rack up" mean? Jeffry, what is ZDDP?

If the pinion gear is not disengaging, you should hear a hellish racket and it will take out the starter Bendix rather quickly, but won't overheat the starter motor.

By "rack up" I think he means the armature is hitting the fields. Physically dragging. Sometimes the armature hits the fields if the bearings/bushings are bad. Even of the bearings/bushings are good, the armature can get too close to the fields. Sometimes the armature is chucked in a lathe and turned down ever so slightly, or maybe the main shaft is out of true.

ZDDP is Zinc additive. Our old motors need zinc to lubricate the sliding surfaces between the tappet/lifter and the cam lobe. Modern cars have roller cams and don't need zinc (or not as much zinc) and sometimes the zinc can cause other problems. I'm thinking catalytic converter problems, or air pollution, but really don't remember.

The starter should not be any hotter than the rest of the engine block.
.

[60 Lark]

Thanks RadioRoy. I'm learning a lot. When I had my starter rebuilt, the guy mentioned that my shaft was slightly out of true, but that he worked it back. If the shaft is even minutely off, I'm guessing that could cause rubbing of armature on the fields. If that is the case, I might get him to shave the armature.

Does the starter constantly spin even when not engaged to the flywheel? I ask that because I'm trying to understand how a starter would heat up. You activate the starter by twisting your ignition key. When you release the key does the starter keep spinning. If it does not, why would my starter be getting hot after a 30 minute ride?

[TWChamp]

The starter should only spin for the few seconds you hold the key in the start position. It heats up due to all the radiated heat off the engine.

[RadioRoy]

On some starters, when the armature heats up, it expands. If it expands too much, or is too close to the field to start with (such as it could be if not properly centered, or if one of the field pieces is out of place or has a burr), it can touch and drag.

Taking the starter apart should show scrape marks on the armature if it is indeed dragging.

If you replace the starter with another one, be aware that the snout and Bendix are different between an automatic and a stick transmission.

[mbstude]

On some starters, when the armature heats up, it expands. If it expands too much, or is too close to the field to start with (such as it could be if not properly centered, or if one of the field pieces is out of place or has a burr), it can touch and drag.

Taking the starter apart should show scrape marks on the armature if it is indeed dragging.

If you replace the starter with another one, be aware that the snout and Bendix are different between an automatic and a stick transmission.

One fix for the armature is to shave a couple of thousandths off of it in a lathe.

[60 Lark]

Thanks guys. I'm gonna pull the starter and take a look at it, and talk with they guy that I had rebuilt it. I'll let you know what we find.