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Thread: 61 Champ V8 259/ hasn't run in 20 years

  1. #41
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    Update- okay so I decided I would bump the starter- so as I'm hooking up the new battery which neg/black is hooked to the starter solenoid and the red/ positive is hooked to the engine at the water pump- the battery sparked a little after a bit I started to smell smoke- unhooked and started looking where the heat/smoke was co I have from- wire rubber melting from the generator up into the wiring harness- wondering if those wires on the battery cables should be the other way around- black/ neg should be ground I believe is what studerick said as well. This is a first for me with my hands in the engine area- I don't mind getting dirty but the electric stuff just really scares me!
    ⚑️so now I need to work on the whole wire today- it now has little rubber around it. ☹️

  2. #42
    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    All 12 volt Studebakers are negative ground.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWChamp View Post
    All 12 volt Studebakers are negative ground.
    TWChamp- Thank you- I have been putting off hooking this darn thing up to the battery- I've stood here looking at the engine making sure all the plug wires are not going to found out- and then just when it sparked a bit I thought something isn t right- then I see a little smoke- I just switched the cables around. Wonder why they had the positive hooked as ground and the ground on the started solenoid, my only guess they had it hooked up opposite on the battery. Maybe to lazy to switch the wires around. Oh well now I'm A bit leery hooking it back up again.

  4. #44
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    Well, it was do or die-- for me I hooked the battery cables back up to the truck like they should have been in the first place. Hooked to the battery and I watched for a few mins- looks good no melting rubber- so smells like fire lol so I decided to try the "Key" pump method as I was told- so lights came on- turn the key and get a rapid clicking sound- I stopped and checked everything still looked ok- tried again same sound with an extra click in there- I did this a few times and then noticed a little smell- positive battery cable was hot! So I unhooked everything and decided to decide my next step.

  5. #45
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    The rapid clicking sound was probably your starter solenoid. Usually when it clicks rapidly when the key is turned, it means the battery does not have a sufficient charge to crank over the engine.
    This could be related to the hot positive cable. Did you clean the battery terminals and cable ends thoroughly?

  6. #46
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    Oilnsteel- I did replaced one of the battery cables and the other I did use a round head wire push on it so it did make good contact. Pretty new battery I could put a charge on it to make sure it's fully charged. Thank you for your reply! I will try again tomorrow πŸ˜‰

  7. #47
    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    Yep, be sure the battery has a full charge, and don't engage the starter for more than a few seconds. Maybe try 2 or 3 times, then let the starter cool for a few minutes. If it doesn't budge, let the pistons soak some more, or try to pry on the flywheel teeth. Remember to check for stuck valves. I know of a Wisconsin air cooled V4 that snapped a camshaft due to stuck valves. My 1949 Chevy 216 bent a couple push rods, but I was able to straighten them, and it's still running fine.

    The worst stuck engine I ever worked on was a 1959 GMC six that had some antifreeze in the cylinders. After soaking for several days, and trying to click the starter, I finally got on the flywheel with a prybar and worked it back and forth. At first it I got it to move 1/16", then slowly more and more, until I finally got it free enough to turn all the way around.

  8. #48
    Silver Hawk Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Several folks suggested to pry on the flywheel teeth. I broke two teeth, of two different flywheels, on two separate occasions. They are a lot easier to break than one would imagine. I will not be doing that anymore. I'd suggest dropping the oil pan, and placing a pry bar inside the balance holes, drilled in the crank throws. Its good and solid, and a 24-36 inch bar in one would provide lots of torque; about 20 times as much as it takes to snap off a flywheel tooth. The oil pan is gonna need to be dropped anyway.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=TWChamp;1050287]Yep, be sure the battery has a full charge, and don't engage the starter for more than a few seconds. Maybe try 2 or 3 times, then let the starter cool for a few minutes. If it doesn't budge, let the pistons soak some more, or try to pry on the flywheel teeth. Remember to check for stuck valves. I know of a Wisconsin air cooled V4 that snapped a camshaft due to stuck valves. My 1949 Chevy 216 bent a couple push rods, but I was able to straighten them, and it's still running fine.

    The worst stuck engine I ever worked on was a 1959 GMC six that had some antifreeze in the cylinders. After soaking for several days, and trying to click the starter, I finally got on the flywheel with a prybar and worked it back and forth. At first it I got it to move 1/16", then slowly more and more, until I finally got it free enough to turn all the way around.[/QUOTE
    TWChamp- I will be checking the valves tomorrow-

  10. #50
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    I'll keep at it-- thank you for your help! I need it.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHall View Post
    Several folks suggested to pry on the flywheel teeth. I broke two teeth, of two different flywheels, on two separate occasions. They are a lot easier to break than one would imagine. I will not be doing that anymore. I'd suggest dropping the oil pan, and placing a pry bar inside the balance holes, drilled in the crank throws. Its good and solid, and a 24-36 inch bar in one would provide lots of torque; about 20 times as much as it takes to snap off a flywheel tooth. The oil pan is gonna need to be dropped anyway.
    Joe, I'm hoping I won't need to resort to the flywheel- I'm an old lady and not so sure I would be able to do any good trying to pry at it with a prybar- but I might have to do something. Thanks for your reply!

  12. #52
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    TWChamp, I took off valve covers again to see if there was an stuck valves-- now tell me.... if I take the neck of the valve should I be able to move it left or right? I can on most of them, however 2 are tight on one side and 3 are tight on the others- is this because of that spring? i sprayed them with marvel oil, how would you suggest I unstick them if they are stuck? I was thinking of a piece of wood on the top and wedging it someplace so I could press down seems those springs are keeping me from that. Also how many valves are there on each side? 8? Wasn't sure what's under those springs.
    Did not tap the starter today- added a bit more marvels.
    Thanks

  13. #53
    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    I would use an aluminum bar or piece of hardwood and a hammer to see if you can tap down on the rocker and make the valve move down and spring back.
    Yes, 8 valves per side.

  14. #54
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    TWChamp ok I will try that. So it is normal that I can kind of twist them in my fingers a bit. The others were tight I thought might have been because the rocker is at a slight slant. After comparing the other side, that didn't seem to matter, others that were loose were also tilted some.
    Thanks for the reply!
    Wouldn't have even attempted this had I not found this forum. πŸ˜‰

  15. #55
    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what you are moving on the valves. Can you post pictures of them?

    Where in Indiana are you located, and are there any Studebaker mechanics close to you?

  16. #56
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    On the top of the Heads, you are just mainly looking at the Valve Springs which close the Valves, the Valve STEM is inside of those.

    Some should be shorter because the Valves are Open, the other taller ones are Closed, and you MAY be able to rotate the Valve retainer and Valve Spring on those if you turn hard enough, but that will not help anything.

    To actually TURN a valve, you must completely disassemble them with a Valve Spring Compressor, this is usually done to replace the Valve Oil Seals.

    When you get your Studebaker Chassis Parts Catalog & Shop Manual, you will see the relationship between all these Parts and how they go together, for someone who has never seen the inside of an Engine or ANYONE owning a Studebaker for that matter, I highly recommend you purchase these.
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWChamp View Post
    I'm not sure what you are moving on the valves. Can you post pictures of them?

    Where in Indiana are you located, and are there any Studebaker mechanics close to you?
    TWChamp, I was at the wrong side....push rods is what I was able to move. I am in Valparaiso IN. No Studebaker mechanics that I know of --
    Thanks for your reply.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by StudeRich View Post
    On the top of the Heads, you are just mainly looking at the Valve Springs which close the Valves, the Valve STEM is inside of those.

    Some should be shorter because the Valves are Open, the other taller ones are Closed, and you MAY be able to rotate the Valve retainer and Valve Spring on those if you turn hard enough, but that will not help anything.

    To actually TURN a valve, you must completely disassemble them with a Valve Spring Compressor, this is usually done to replace the Valve Oil Seals.

    When you get your Studebaker Chassis Parts Catalog & Shop Manual, you will see the relationship between all these Parts and how they go together, for someone who has never seen the inside of an Engine or ANYONE owning a Studebaker for that matter, I highly recommend you purchase these.
    StudRich, I'm sorry I'm asking so many questions I do have a studebaker chassis part Catalog and I have looked at it- however my truck is at my property in my garage and I live 5 miles from there... when I work on the truck I didn't have my manual with me, I read it when I come home. I guess I have been asking too many questions that I should be able to figure out myself with a shop Manual.
    I will resort to my book. Thanks for your help.

  19. #59
    Champion Member chief915ky's Avatar
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    its normal that you can turn some of the pushrods but not others..... the ones you can rotate, the valves are close and no tension is on that pushrod..... the ones that you cannot rotate, the valve isn't closed, so there's tension on the pushrod.
    Lee
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief915ky View Post
    its normal that you can turn some of the pushrods but not others..... the ones you can rotate, the valves are close and no tension is on that pushrod..... the ones that you cannot rotate, the valve isn't closed, so there's tension on the pushrod.
    Thank you Lee for clearly that up- I understand that. That's exactly what is happening with this Engine. Glad it is normal- πŸ‘πŸ»

  21. #61
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    I think I read that you have alread pulled the valve covers. Since you have you can check for a stuck valve by using a prybar with a bent foot and doing some gentle prying to see if the valves drop down a little bit by prying against the valve springs. Do not pry so hard that you bend something or unseat the pushrods.
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    Kammie use a brass drift and hammer, tap on the rocker arm directly above the valve stem to bump the valve. if valve wont budge chances are it's stuck in the guide.this usually happens on open exhaust valves. if all valves are free and engine still wont turn over you have stuck rings. some times you can leave a vehicle in gear and rock it back and forth. if pouring something in cylinders to free up everything remember you have to coat the whole cyl diameter not just the bottom 1/3. try taping a peice of small ID hose to your spray can and angling toward the upper side of the cyl. keep at it, it will give up sooner or later. Luck Doofus

  23. #63
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    If you put the car in gear and rock it, be sure to pull the overdrive handle out and put the car in high gear.
    Of course if you have an automatic, then it can't be rocked.

  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by studebakerkid View Post
    I think I read that you have alread pulled the valve covers. Since you have you can check for a stuck valve by using a prybar with a bent foot and doing some gentle prying to see if the valves drop down a little bit by prying against the valve springs. Do not pry so hard that you bend something or unseat the pushrods.
    Thank you Studebakerkid! That's exactly what I did however I put a little block of wood in there to give me a little leverage and so ever gently pryed was able to press the valves in. Only 2 were a little stickier than the others . I know I have a long ways to go but so ever happy! Thank you for your and put and replying to me.

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by doofus View Post
    Kammie use a brass drift and hammer, tap on the rocker arm directly above the valve stem to bump the valve. if valve wont budge chances are it's stuck in the guide.this usually happens on open exhaust valves. if all valves are free and engine still wont turn over you have stuck rings. some times you can leave a vehicle in gear and rock it back and forth. if pouring something in cylinders to free up everything remember you have to coat the whole cyl diameter not just the bottom 1/3. try taping a peice of small ID hose to your spray can and angling toward the upper side of the cyl. keep at it, it will give up sooner or later. Luck Doofus
    It's funny that you would say use a brass drift I actually had one of my dads and a brass mallet and I did tap all of those areas that you suggested And I actually felt like the spring had a little more give to it and then I used a prybar as studebakerkid and a few others advised a prybar. I used one with a piece of wood for leverage and was able to move every valve A couple a bit sticky but all in the same they did move down. thank you so much for your reply.

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWChamp View Post
    If you put the car in gear and rock it, be sure to pull the overdrive handle out and put the car in high gear.
    Of course if you have an automatic, then it can't be rocked.
    TWChamp, I also though of that a couple of days ago however being an automatic I didn't know if it would work the same if I were to drop it into drive I did try that and of course it didn't work, then Reading a few other replies from other Studebaker guys suggested a prybar and also tapping on those rocker arms and low in be hold they're all moving so I have no stuck valves ! I am just so excited I know I still have a long way to go but I am happy that I have no stuck valve's now to move forward. Thank you for helping me again!

  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TWChamp View Post
    I would use an aluminum bar or piece of hardwood and a hammer to see if you can tap down on the rocker and make the valve move down and spring back.
    Yes, 8 valves per side.
    I just did that and it worked! I'm so excited! No stuck valves.

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kammy View Post
    TWChamp, I was at the wrong side....push rods is what I was able to move. I am in Valparaiso IN. No Studebaker mechanics that I know of --
    Thanks for your reply.
    I rebuild Studebaker engines, but I'm in South Bend.

  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselJim View Post
    I rebuild Studebaker engines, but I'm in South Bend.
    DieselJim, Do you make house calls? πŸ€•I'm going to keep at it, today I was able to move the valves..... I'm not wanting to get under the truck and do the flywheel thing.... sure wish someone lived closer to do that part..... the more I read I'm thinking if I get it unstuck sounds like there are still things that might need to be fixed. Wonder just how many stuck engines actually are running fine without being rebuilt.
    May I ask what you get to rebuild a Engine?
    Maybe I can call and talk with you? Let me know thank you much.

  30. #70
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    Really don't make house calls that far. I have a rebuilt 289 engine on the swap page for $2850.00. You can call me.

  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselJim View Post
    Really don't make house calls that far. I have a rebuilt 289 engine on the swap page for $2850.00. You can call me.
    Haha okay! I don't blame you- It is a bit of a drive. I really don't want to change engines- if this one doesn't work out ---I might consider having it rebuilt- thanks anyway 😊

  32. #72
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    The price for a "rebuilt" 289 in #70 looks too good to pass up (if you got the dough, re, me...). I don't know diesel Jim, but likely if he's offering here..... to us... might be your quick route. However...you have many other systems that will need attention. Realistically, you should be thinking getting out cheaply for a driving truck like yours....somewhere in the $3-5K range. That's a quick run through the numbers (up/down a bit). To your point (I thought I'd made it above), its very unlikely the present engine in your truck will provide more than "adequate" service. But for tax purposes, and just driving around town....once loosened up, you might get lucky. You need to plan ahead for other systems. Ask here.

  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackb View Post
    The price for a "rebuilt" 289 in #70 looks too good to pass up (if you got the dough, re, me...). I don't know diesel Jim, but likely if he's offering here..... to us... might be your quick route. However...you have many other systems that will need attention. Realistically, you should be thinking getting out cheaply for a driving truck like yours....somewhere in the $3-5K range. That's a quick run through the numbers (up/down a bit). To your point (I thought I'd made it above), its very unlikely the present engine in your truck will provide more than "adequate" service. But for tax purposes, and just driving around town....once loosened up, you might get lucky. You need to plan ahead for other systems. Ask here.
    Jack b, thanks for the reply, I have no doubt the rebuilt engine is a good deal- I'm in no hurry to jump at replacing the engine and wanting to hurry up to get in and drive down town. I knew what I might be getting into when I decided to buy the truck, knowing it was possibly froze-stuck- seized. To what extent I do not know yet- this has been fun for me this far- I'm taking it slow, asking questions, lots of very kind people on this forum helping me as I go. I understand that there is going to be a lot more to just getting this truck running. I plan on taking my time. If it should free up and take me to the next step then that's where I will go. Did I mention I'm in no hurry? πŸ˜‰

  34. #74
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    Excellent position to take up front. We see many "project" vehicles due to "barn find burnout". Somehow the "resurrection" trumps reality and patience. You obviously possess the latter. I'm sure I can speak for all (most) here who enjoy helping someone who asks....continued GL !

  35. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackb View Post
    Excellent position to take up front. We see many "project" vehicles due to "barn find burnout". Somehow the "resurrection" trumps reality and patience. You obviously possess the latter. I'm sure I can speak for all (most) here who enjoy helping someone who asks....continued GL !
    Thanks Jack! Have a nice weekend.

  36. #76
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    If you are still not having any luck with breaking the engine loose, there is also the grease gun technique...

    Break the porcelain out of a spark plug and braze a grease zert on the end. Find the cylinder that is closest to TDC and insert the plug. Start pumping grease into that cylinder - you can generate quite a bit of force with a hand held grease gun. Once it breaks loose, you will need to flush that cylinder to get the majority of the grease out.

    My Uncle did this on a Studebaker V8 that had sat outside in a vehicle for a couple decades. Once it was free, he drove it about 10K miles over 15 years with no major issues.

    Is this the truck you have? Think this photo was from a Craigslist ad sometime back.

    Last edited by 62champ; 04-22-2017 at 09:54 AM.

  37. #77
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    I've used the grease gun method to loosen up brake cylinders (pre-war) with excellent results..

  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by 62champ View Post
    If you are still not having any luck with breaking the engine loose, there is also the grease gun technique...

    Break the porcelain out of a spark plug and braze a grease zert on the end. Find the cylinder that is closest to TDC and insert the plug. Start pumping grease into that cylinder - you can generate quite a bit of force with a hand held grease gun. Once it breaks loose, you will need to flush that cylinder to get the majority of the grease out.

    My Uncle did this on a Studebaker V8 that had sat outside in a vehicle for a couple decades. Once it was free, he drove it about 10K miles over 15 years with no major issues.

    Is this the truck you have? Think this photo was from a Craigslist ad sometime back.

    62 Champ -Yes that's the truck.
    Okay I will try this- How do I figure out which cylinder would be "Top-Dead-Center" =TDC once I know I then break away porcelain off of the plug - then I can braze a fitting on that plug and pump it up with a grease gun? Is this correct? Now do I keep all other plugs out? (They are all out) right now.
    Thank you for the reply and help.

  39. #79
    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    Actually you don't want TDC, as that would not give any rotational pressure. A piston half way up with both valves closed works best. I would save this as a last resort. I would keep working the flywheel back and forth first.

    This is why it's best to "pickle" an engine if you know it will set for a long time. This is where you slowly pour oil into the carb until you see heavy smoke out the tail pipe, then you pour it in fast enough to kill the engine. Now all the pistons and valves will have a oil to help stave off rust.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TWChamp View Post
    Actually you don't want TDC, as that would not give any rotational pressure. A piston half way up with both valves closed works best. I would save this as a last resort. I would keep working the flywheel back and forth first.

    This is why it's best to "pickle" an engine if you know it will set for a long time. This is where you slowly pour oil into the carb until you see heavy smoke out the tail pipe, then you pour it in fast enough to kill the engine. Now all the pistons and valves will have a oil to help stave off rust.
    TWChamp, okay- I rigged up a large plastic syringe with a clear rubber tube to stick into the spark plug holes so I could squeeze more MMO up and all around. I also decovered that extra clicking sound-- it wasn't the battery, it was a electric fuel pump. I unhooked it for the time being so I could hear the click of the starter. I've not yet got to the flywheel. Tinkering with other stuff on the truck while it soaks-- been using elbow greaseπŸ˜‰ Thanks for the reply.

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