PDA

View Full Version : Engine: Intake Manifold Installation



R2GTHAWK
01-25-2007, 05:42 PM
I'm starting to put things back together with the underhood detailing
of my 1963 R-2 Hawk and I have a few more questions.
I am using composite intake manifold gaskets and I would like
to know if I should use gasket sealer on one side, both sides,
or not at all.
Does the condenser that mounts on the coil bracket connect to the
positive side or negative side of the coil?
I am using the thick triple carb gasket and I would like to
know if there are any other "tricks" that I should use to keep
excess heat away from the carb.
Thanks for all of your assistance, it really helps!!!!:D

JDP
01-25-2007, 05:49 PM
No sealer, condenser to positive, thick gasket is all you need unless you want to block the heat riser port and use a electric choke.


64 Commander 2 dr.
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
62 GT Hawk 4 speed
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

gordr
01-25-2007, 05:56 PM
quote:Originally posted by R2GTHAWK

I'm starting to put things back together with the underhood detailing
of my 1963 R-2 Hawk and I have a few more questions.
I am using composite intake manifold gaskets and I would like
to know if I should use gasket sealer on one side, both sides,
or not at all.
Does the condenser that mounts on the coil bracket connect to the
positive side or negative side of the coil?
I am using the thick triple carb gasket and I would like to
know if there are any other "tricks" that I should use to keep
excess heat away from the carb.
Thanks for all of your assistance, it really helps!!!!:D


Intake manifold gaskets on a Stude don't have to resist fluids or high pressure. Use sealer on the gaskets, and you have a real mess to clean up if you ever take it apart. I'd suggest giving both sides of the composite gasket a light coat of heavy grease, like wheel bearing grease. It will seal pinhole leaks, etc., and helps the gasket slide and conform to the surfaces as the manifold is torqued down. When time comes to remove it, the gasket should not be badly stuck to either part.

The condenser on the coil bracket is an ignition noise suppressor,and should be connected to the (+) side of the coil.

Some of the gasket kits contain restrictor plates for the crossover passage; using them would definitely make the manifold run cooler, but the release of the automatic choke would be delayed, and that's not good.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

DEEPNHOCK
01-26-2007, 09:52 AM
I recommend that you use Permatex Ultra copper gasket sealant on the intake manifold side only. Just a small, SMALL film around the intake ports. Place the intake gasket onto the upside down intake manifold and allow to set up overnight. When you are ready to mount the manifold to the head, smear a light film of grease on the intake surface of the heads. This does two thinks. It allows you to move the manifold around a tad to get the bolts to line up (and the gaskets won't move)....and it will allow the intake to come off later 'with' the gasket still in place, and the gasket will very likely be useable. An old drag racer trick that works great on Stude's. If you are running some thin 'block off plates', they should be put on the heat crossover port on the head side of the gasket (using the same Permatex Ultra Copper and overnight set up).
Remember...if you are running block off plates, you must remove, gut, or wire open your heat riser valve on the RHS exhaust manifold.
BTDT a dozenteen times....
Hope the info helps.
Jeff



quote:Originally posted by R2GTHAWK

I'm starting to put things back together with the underhood detailing
of my 1963 R-2 Hawk and I have a few more questions.
I am using composite intake manifold gaskets and I would like
to know if I should use gasket sealer on one side, both sides,
or not at all.
Does the condenser that mounts on the coil bracket connect to the
positive side or negative side of the coil?
I am using the thick triple carb gasket and I would like to
know if there are any other "tricks" that I should use to keep
excess heat away from the carb.
Thanks for all of your assistance, it really helps!!!!:D


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

Mike
01-26-2007, 12:37 PM
The original Stude intake manifold gaskets for R2 engines had a restricted heat riser passage on the driver's side. The round hole looks like it's about 3/4 of an inch across. The passenger side was wide open; as were both sides on an R1. That left plenty of room for the choke stove tube. Since it extended into the exhaust passage in the head, it got plenty of heat. R2's used the standard heat riser control valve.
The different part #'s for R2 intake manifold gaskets are listed in the Avanti parts book, and the Jet Thrust parts supplement. There's a picture and explanation in the SAE "Avanti" paper. The special gasket was supposed to be stainless steel, because it was exposed to hot exhaust gasses.
Mike M.

JDP
01-26-2007, 01:17 PM
Jeff, I would not use the copper coat stuff with the paper gaskets he's using, I don't see the point, but am more then wiling to learn.:)


64 Commander 2 dr.
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
62 GT Hawk 4 speed
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

Mike Van Veghten
01-26-2007, 11:28 PM
I only use the dark material only. The material the white gaskets are made of hasn't worked well for me.
I also put composite gaskets on dry. I've also reused them as long as they aren't too stiff.

I have found that a composite material gasket that's slightly hard/stiff...can be helped out with engine oil. Let a coat soak in both sides for a while...they work like new.

Mike

DEEPNHOCK
01-27-2007, 09:00 AM
'Ultra Copper' from Permatex is a high temp silicone, it's not the 'Copper Coat' head gasket shellac of years past...
C'mon JP, get into the nineties!;)
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by JDP

Jeff, I would not use the copper coat stuff with the paper gaskets he's using, I don't see the point, but am more then wiling to learn.:)


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

tim333
09-12-2015, 08:39 PM
Which side of a metal gasket go toward the manifold, the grooved or raised?

DEEPNHOCK
09-12-2015, 09:08 PM
Which side of a metal gasket go toward the manifold, the grooved or raised?

(The OP said he was using a composite gaskets)

But, to answer your question, I have always put the ridged side up when using the steel gaskets.
But your gasket surfaces must be pristeen to use the steel gaskets.

TWChamp
09-12-2015, 09:52 PM
Which side of a metal gasket go toward the manifold, the grooved or raised?

If the manifold gasket has steel on only one side, then the steel faces the hot exhaust manifold. Since your's has steel on both sides, I don't think it matters.

bob mulhern
09-15-2015, 03:40 PM
Ridged side up ,also watch bolt tightening order,I did not and I am now ordering new gasket

rkapteyn
09-18-2015, 04:16 PM
Post#5 is incorrect because the proper passenger side intake manifold gaskets on the R2 engines block the heater riser passage completely.
The drivers side had a hole for the choke heat riser.
One of the Avanti parts suppliers was selling the standard manifold gaskets as fitting the R2 engines which is incorrect.
Look in the Avanti parts manual and you will find two different intake manifold gasket numbers left and right for the R2 engines.
http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/archive/index.php?t-44467.html

Robert Kapteyn

Mike
09-18-2015, 07:11 PM
I had thought the right side R2 intake gasket had a wide open heat riser port, and was the same as used on both sides in R1 engines. I checked my Avanti parts book, (black cover, Dec. '63), and was surprised to see unique part #'s for both left and right R2 intake gaskets. That is: left and right are not the same, (as expected), and neither are the same as for an R1, (surprise). R1 engines used the same on both sides, and it's an older part#.
I also reviewed my copy of the SAE paper, "The Avanti By Studebaker", Hardig and deBlumenthal, Jan '63. The R2 intake manifold gasket gets a whole paragraph and a picture! It says heat to the manifold is limited by a small hole for exhaust gasses in the left side intake manifold gasket, which is stainless steel since part of it is exposed to exhaust. The right side isn't mentioned. The picture shows what I suppose is the left side only. It has a small hole for the exhaust passage. I have one that looks like it, here on my desk. Mine has a 1/2" hole, just a little larger than the bolt holes. It's painted silver, and has Mc4293 stamped on it.
If the right side gasket had a completely blocked exhaust passage, wouldn't the loop of tubing for the choke stove prevent the manifold from seating on the head? It's the same for both R1 & R2, and protrudes well past the gasket surface. Also how could the automatic choke work with no exhaust flow past the stove through the heat riser passages?
Perhaps the right side R2 gasket had a unique # because it was stainless steel to match the left side.
I still need to check the Lark/Hawk "R" series parts list. I could swear I've seen the R1 gasket listed for the right side R2 somewhere. Also is that Mc4293 a McCord #?
Mike M

rkapteyn
09-25-2015, 01:07 AM
The stove pipe for the choke is on the passenger side and extends through the gaskets using the 1/2" hole.
The drivers side is completely blocked of on the R2 engines.
R1 engines use the standard wide open ones , same as the regular V8.
Early pictures show the R2 engines used the wide open gaskets but that was only on the prototype and early production engines and was later changed to the fully blocked ones and the ones with the 1/2"hole
These gaskets were steel and were painted gray or were galvanized but never stainless. Never use composite gaskets because they insulate the heat.
Steel gaskets were used by Studebaker so that heat would be transferred between parts and the parts would heat up evenly and prevent stresses.
Someone else posted once that with the tight financial situation in later years Studebaker would not spend money foolishly and redesign items unless really needed.
I like to add that do not totally condemn the use of composite intake manifold gaskets because some day in the future there will no steel ones available.
If you use these composite gaskets you may need to retighten the hold down bolts more often because of the uneven heating of the manifold versus the heads , these two parts will expand and contract differently and even if it would be a few thousands
eventually the rubbing back and forth will create leaks

Robert Kapteyn
member since 1968

tim333
09-25-2015, 01:22 AM
The choke stove pipe is on the passenger side of my R2 intake.

rkapteyn
09-25-2015, 01:53 AM
My bad! You are correct.
Robert Kapteyn

Treblig
09-26-2015, 08:12 PM
The choke stove pipe is on the passenger side of my R2 intake.

I sent you a PM.
Treblig

Treblig
09-28-2015, 02:02 PM
Still no answer on PM sent to "tim333"

treblig