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tlamarti
10-05-2006, 10:01 PM
I am "new" at this and I need some advice. I "think" I have the correct radio for my 1950 2 door Champion. It's a STUDEBAKER PHILCO MODEL S- 5123 The knobs (Slide rule type..not a pushbutton) look like the bullet of the car. Is this the CORRECT radio and if so, HOW do you mount it. I have no mounting brackets, Could someone please describe them or give me an idea how it mounts to the firewall? How does it hook up electrically? Also, where/how/how can I get an antenna for this radio? Where does it go. Also, If someone can allow me to contact them (via email/phone) for future questions about this car, I would be most grateful. Thanks, Tom LaMartina, Lynchburg, VA

Tom LaMartina

rockne10
10-05-2006, 10:44 PM
On the bottom of the bezel there are two holes just slightly inboard of the knobs. Two special screws go vertically to the bottom edge of the dash. Then there is a long bolt with an ell on the end; the ell fits through a small hole just under the cowl edge and the threaded part goes through a bracketed hole in the bottom rear of the radio and is cinched up with a wingnut.

A single power wire with inline fuse should come from the radio to the ignition switch. The antenna would be located on the top of the post between the drivers door and the left front fender. Any antenna will work but it would be nice to find something that appears like the original. There's always one for sale on ebay that claims to be original type.

These cars also had the option of an internally controlled (crank-up) antenna. If you can find a good one at a swap meet, it will set you back a couple hundred dollars.:( Installation of the crank-up antenna requires very precise positioning of the hole in the body.

Welcome to the Forum, Tom.:)


Brad Johnson
Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
33 Rockne 10
51 Commander Starlight
53 Commander Starlight
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/rockne10/51x2.jpg
previously: 63 Cruiser, 62 Regal VI, 60 VI convertible, 50 LandCruiser

Dwain G.
10-06-2006, 01:04 AM
Yes, that is the correct radio. Studebaker's accessory number is AC-2113. There are copies of the installation manuals available.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/53C.jpg
Dwain G.

Roscomacaw
10-09-2006, 01:15 AM
Tom,

Just come back here with your questions!:D

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle!!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

pyrodork
03-27-2011, 02:07 AM
A single power wire with inline fuse should come from the radio to the ignition switch.

okay, i'm currently kinda/sorta working on 2 radios. one for the stude, one for the plymouth. the stude radio i know isn't right for the year, but i got it cheap and i'm going to rebuild it and use it until i get the correct one. the one for the 37 plymouth is correct and it has a separate control unit from the radio itself; connected by some steel cables.

now onto the question... the stude radio has one wire. the plymouth radio has one wire coming from the radio (with a fuse holder end on it), and two wires from the controller box that go to the power/volume knob. both these wires have chopped ends. i assume one wire had the other end of the fuse holder on it, while the other one went to the power source. ACTUAL question is, while i'm still working on these radios and testing them, how do i connect them to a battery? would i get an extra wire to (+) ground it to the shell of the radio and use the (-) terminal for power? and i read on a different post to use a 10 amp fuse on the stude radio. is this correct? it just seems high. i was going to use a 3 or 5 amp on the plymouth radio.

extra fancy bonus question:
the plymouth radio has a weird antenna plug i've never seen before. it looks easy to rewire to a standard female antenna plug, but does anyone know what this type of plug is called or where i may find the male end? it has 2 bayonet pins and twists in. almost like a BNC plug.

thanks! nice to revive an old post!

Bud
03-27-2011, 08:05 AM
The correct radios for your car would be a S4927, 4923 or 4924. The 49 series radios have a rectangular case where the 51 series radios have a slanted back to clear the windshield wiper linkage. Pyrodork, send me a PM with your email address and I'll help you with your radio questions. Bud

Jeff_H
03-27-2011, 09:59 AM
On the Plymouth radio: I assume there is a mechanical cable from the volume knob on the control head that goes to the radio? Take your meter on ohms and check the continuity between those 2 wires with the on/off switch in each position. If they are shorted when in the ON and not when in the OFF, then your assumption about where they go seems on the mark. I am suprised they would have the switch in the control box like that and not just have the mechanical cable that turns the volume do it or is this not the normal setup where you turn the volume down low and then it clicks off?

A 10A fuse actually sounds a little small.... If its a 6 tube radio, probably about right though. The 8 tube radio will pull more current and may need a larger fuse.

I'd caution that if these radios have not been "restored" or otherwise used or gone through recently, they are not likely to work. Or, if they do work, not for very long. All the capacitors in them should be replaced with new/fresh parts. The vibrator modules are possibly stuck or have corroded points too. Replacements are available.

There are folks who regularly restore and refurb old car radios. Like anything else in the old car hobby, not cheap. Depends on what you want for your car.

pyrodork
03-27-2011, 02:43 PM
ah, okay. my stude radio is for a 42-46, i think. well, i can fix it up and resell it.

for the plymouth radio, there's mechanical cables for the power/volume, tone, and tuning. in taking them apart yesterday, i saw the power switch is located in the controller unit. not sure if that's the volume too, but i'd assume so. there is more resistance when the cable is connected, so there's probably something on that end, too. the switch is definitely located in the controller, though. i found it weird that the tone knob is a 3-position switch and not a standard pot.

i've been dinking around (amateurly) with electronics for nearly my whole life. i've restored this and that before, so i don't think these radios would be a problem. the stude radio was untested when i bought it, but the plymouth radio had been tested without an antenna and works (although obviously got no reception). regardless, i'm replacing the caps.

so to reiterate and make sure i understand you (as i don't have much experience with meters), if it shorts (or beeps or whatever... i told you i don't have much experience with meters) when it's on, but it's fine when it's off, then those two wires go together? the guy i bought it from said he didn't think it made any difference which wire it connected to. i chose the wire based on the length of the remaining wire. i assumed the longer wire went to the power source and the wire that was almost as long as the mechanical cables was the one that connected to the radio.

but again, how do i connect this to a 6v battery to play with it before installing it in the car? i'm assuming the one wire goes to the negative, but wouldn't there need to be a ground wire coming from the positive to complete the circuit?

royvaldez
03-27-2011, 03:33 PM
Bud is correct, but you can still use the radio you purchased.

starlightchamp
03-27-2011, 04:20 PM
I'll try to post a graphic of the mounting. I have restored a half dozen of these radios. Gave them all away except
the one in my 50 Starlight and one in a friends car. All the above is good advice. The fuze is 10 amps for a six tube.
I measured a draw of six amps as typical. The tube heaters eat up most of this current. Don't fool around with the
innards if your not radio smart. The voltage on the tube plates is around +250 and can bite!!
Most of the time the vibrator is dead. You can replace with a solid state one for about $38. If you do have some
electronic experience, get a schematic on line and change out the electrolytic filter capacitors-they will be dried out.
I always also replace the coupling capacitors between stages.

pyrodork
03-27-2011, 09:24 PM
i'm not really concerned about the 40's stude radio. the red dial indicator is missing anyway. i just want something that's functional to have more than dead air in the car, and that looks kinda fancy (i like chrome).

thanks for the mounting diagram! that's going to help a lot once i get -a- radio for the stude going!

where would i get the replacement vibrator if i need one? i go to antiqueelectronicssupply.com for my stuff now, but have never needed one of those before.

Jeff_H
03-28-2011, 09:04 AM
so to reiterate and make sure i understand you (as i don't have much experience with meters), if it shorts (or beeps or whatever... i told you i don't have much experience with meters) when it's on, but it's fine when it's off, then those two wires go together? the guy i bought it from said he didn't think it made any difference which wire it connected to. i chose the wire based on the length of the remaining wire. i assumed the longer wire went to the power source and the wire that was almost as long as the mechanical cables was the one that connected to the radio.

but again, how do i connect this to a 6v battery to play with it before installing it in the car? i'm assuming the one wire goes to the negative, but wouldn't there need to be a ground wire coming from the positive to complete the circuit?

The idea was if the actual power switch is in the control head and not in the radio itself, then those 2 wires would either be shorted together inside the switch when its turned to the ON position and open circuit when in the OFF position. Your meter in ohms or continuity test mode will show that. If you can confirm that, then which wire goes to the radio vs to the car ign switch or battery is up to you most likely.

Yes on the battery connections. Connect the Positive + post of the battery to the radio chassis/frame and the negative goes to the power wire. This is if you know for a fact it was a positive ground vehicle. If there is a solid state replacement vibrator installed in either radio, its critical you get the polarity correct as it will be damaged otherwise. When installing one of those vibrators, there is a choice of + or - ground versions and someone may have converted the car and swapped the vibrator so check the markings on it. The mechanical vibrators don't care (at least the ones I am familiar with, not sure about that Plymouth).

pyrodork
03-28-2011, 10:31 PM
i haven't tested the plymouth radio yet (still no battery... and who knows where my meter is), but i think that is correct... that it doesn't matter which wire goes to the power.

thanks!

starlightchamp
03-29-2011, 05:54 PM
Pyrodock,
Radio vibrators here. Be sure to get proper polarity ground. 6 volt.positive ground vibrator for early 50's cars.

http://www.radiosforoldcars.com/whoF.htm

pyrodork
03-30-2011, 12:52 AM
great! thanks!

pyrodork
04-01-2011, 12:39 AM
ok, i finally got a battery and got it (the plymouth radio) wired up. it's making a buzzing sound. is that evidence that the vibrator is bad? how exactly would i know if the vibrator is bad?

Jeff_H
04-01-2011, 09:51 AM
The vibrator will make a humming/buzzing sound. It should not be real loud. Is there a hum coming out of the speaker too? If so, your filter capacitors are likely bad. You should hear a hum from the vibrator but none from the speaker. If its working at all, tuning the radio you should hear something from the speaker.

deco_droid
10-29-2012, 12:29 PM
Found this old thread and have a couple questions. For now I just want to pull the radio and clean it up a bit, then later I'll find someone local that can get it working. 1. Do the two knobs simply pull straight off? I figured so, but didn't want to ruin anything if there is some "secret" trick. 2. I saw the schematic further up the thread and it looks like there is only one connection to pull for the power and antenna. Is that right, and is it better to pull that before dropping the radio down? Thanks much.

RadioRoy
10-29-2012, 01:08 PM
As I recall, your radio has seven push buttons.

The volume and tone knobs pull off with finger pressure only.. The manual tuning knob is fastened internally. Do not attempt to pull it off as that will break a special little part inside that is no longer available. The push buttons likewise do not pull off.

Do not clean up the chrome with steel wool. The little bits are conductive and will get inside the electrical parts and damage the radio.

Gold Hawk Doug
10-30-2012, 01:06 AM
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the function of the vibrator? What does it do?

The radio in the Hawk works great, but I think it has a bad ground. Sometimes its gets that "static build up" like when your in a very bad rain storm, and a good thump on the bottom of the dash, under the radio fixes it for now....

Doug

RadioRoy
10-30-2012, 12:56 PM
The vibrator converts DC to AC, which then is fed into a transformer and stepped up to around 250 volts to operate the tubes.

Your Hawk radio probably has a bad ground connection to the frame. Check the bolts where it mounts to the steel frame under the dashboard, and put some tooth type lock washers under the bolts.

Gold Hawk Doug
10-30-2012, 01:03 PM
Thanks Roy, for confirming my suspicions. Will do as you say.

Doug

deco_droid
11-07-2012, 06:17 PM
As I recall, your radio has seven push buttons.

The volume and tone knobs pull off with finger pressure only.. The manual tuning knob is fastened internally. Do not attempt to pull it off as that will break a special little part inside that is no longer available. The push buttons likewise do not pull off.

Do not clean up the chrome with steel wool. The little bits are conductive and will get inside the electrical parts and damage the radio.

Thanks much -- Getting ready to pull my radio. I pulled the antenna connection. How does the power connection break loose? Do I need to unscrew the fitting on the side, does the connection pull apart, or what? It's just hard to see what I need to do even with a flashlight...

unclemiltie
11-07-2012, 06:44 PM
You can disconnect the power by undoing the fuse connection and letting the hot side hanging under the dash. But---- I always prefer to remove the wire going to the radio from the back of the ignition switch by undoing the nut and taking the wire off and then putting the nut back on. I do not like to let hot wires hanging under the dash.


There are two screws on the bottom of the radio and the wing nut on the j-bolt to undo then in order to drop it.

RadioRoy
11-08-2012, 12:29 PM
It's always a good idea to disconnect the battery before working under the dash. One slip of the wrench and you can have a fire.

The old insulation was rubber that was covered with cloth. The rubber has hardened over the years and the wires are stiff and brittle. Do NOT wiggle or move them. If you do, the insulation will crack and fall off. If you leave the wires alone, they will be fine. If you wiggle and bend them, you will have trouble.

deco_droid
11-08-2012, 01:22 PM
It's always a good idea to disconnect the battery before working under the dash. One slip of the wrench and you can have a fire.

The old insulation was rubber that was covered with cloth. The rubber has hardened over the years and the wires are stiff and brittle. Do NOT wiggle or move them. If you do, the insulation will crack and fall off. If you leave the wires alone, they will be fine. If you wiggle and bend them, you will have trouble.

Thanks, Roy. I have found some stiff wiring as you mentioned and have not tried to move or rearrange them, but I didn't realize they could be a fire hazard. I may have to update the wiring later on...

RadioRoy
11-08-2012, 03:02 PM
If you leave the wires alone, they will be fine.

IF you leave them alone.

deco_droid
11-08-2012, 04:38 PM
If you leave the wires alone, they will be fine.

IF you leave them alone.

Duly noted, sir!

:)

Frank DuVal
11-08-2012, 10:58 PM
Doug,

If the radio sounds like it is in a thunderstorm, it may be developing "silver mica disease". When banging the dash stops fixing it, it will be time to open it up for major surgery. Lots of info on the net, but it is something for only hardy repairers to attempt.

deco_droid
11-19-2012, 02:38 PM
Okay, radio is all out, opened the front casing but the front chrome piece with the dial and everything is still stuck on. Is the right tuning knob holding up my disassembly? It looks like there is a small nut inside holding the knob on, but I could not find a wrench small enough to get in there and loosen it to find out. I am just trying to pull the front facing off so I can clean it, the dial and knobs real good. Once I locate a small wrench, am I good to go? Thanks.

RadioRoy
11-19-2012, 02:48 PM
What are you trying to do? Are you trying to take the chrome bezel off and clean it up? If so...

Do not take off the screw on the bottom center of the radio by the model number plate. Taking off that screw will release the tuning mechanism and most likely tear off all the hair-fine wires that connect to the tuning coils. Then the radio will never work again. The push button tuning mechanism stays with the radio chassis and the chrome bezel comes free from that. The manual tuning knob stays on the bezel.

The screws that release the bezel are inside, towards the front. You can see them by opening the back of the radio and reaching them with a long 1/4" nut driver. They hold the pot metal bezel to the sheet meta radio chassis. They are slightly inboard of the knobs and at about the depth of the front edge of the radio sheet metal chassis.

The manual tuning knob is a slip fit over the pushbutton tuning chassis and stays with the bezel. It is held on by a special clip that is swaged onto the knob and has a movable slotted piece inside of it. It does not need to be removed to remove the bezel. Do not attempt to remove it. Once you get the bezel off the radio, you can see what I am talking about.

deco_droid
11-19-2012, 03:13 PM
Okay, thanks much. Yes, I'm just trying to clean up the front a bit. I have most all the dash chrome off and this was the most involved portion of it. I just pulled the front speaker cover and thought I could access what was holding me up, but I will pull the back plate as you say. It's already in decent shape, but I am a detailer, so I want everything to look as new as possible -- this kinda stuff is fun for me. When I locate someone to rebuild the radio, I will pull it again, but for now I just want it to look purrrty.

:)

RadioRoy
11-19-2012, 03:46 PM
Have you figured out how to pull the knobs (lights/heater/defrost/etc) off the switches yet?

deco_droid
11-19-2012, 03:53 PM
Have you figured out how to pull the knobs (lights/heater/defrost/etc) off the switches yet?

Okay, well honestly, I hadn't gotten that far. I started right to left, so I stopped at the ignition switch and decided I didn't want to mess with pulling that.

I may be persuaded to pull those knobs though. Are secretly located allen screws involved??? I'm all ears, Roy!

RadioRoy
11-19-2012, 04:13 PM
No allen screw.

There is a tiny hole in the bottom of the switch, close to the collar that mounts the switch. Push into that hole a straightened paper clip and at the same time pull the knob off - gently.

remember to disconnect the battery so you don't run it down while the lights are on.

rkapteyn
11-19-2012, 05:54 PM
The easiest way to identify Studebaker radio's 1947-1956 is to look at the number on the radio.
The 4 digit Philco radio numbers starting with 51 are for the 1952 cars.
50 for 1951 cars etc.
Appearently that were date codes for the year that they were designed, wich is the previous year.
Did did not work for prewar or Delco radio's after 1955.
Robert Kapteyn

deco_droid
11-20-2012, 11:31 AM
No allen screw.

There is a tiny hole in the bottom of the switch, close to the collar that mounts the switch. Push into that hole a straightened paper clip and at the same time pull the knob off - gently.

remember to disconnect the battery so you don't run it down while the lights are on.

Thanks, Roy. Didn't get to the knobs last night, but I did clean up the radio. I'll probably put it all back together tonight. One thing -- is the text on the front supposed to be painted white like the other Stude text on the car? It was hard to tell for sure what the original color was.

RadioRoy
11-20-2012, 03:02 PM
The text inset in the chrome on the radio bezel should be white. Easy to do. Just paint it white and whipe it off with a lint free rag before it dries.


Interestingly, the similarly positioned text on the 53-55 radios is red.