Engine: In's and out's of a 169 rebuild.

[poweroptions]

I have found an experienced, old school rebuilder of flatheads in my area. What does he need to be made aware of that is specific of the 169? THANK YOU !

[PackardV8]

Yes, CASOs, we know you've done hunnerds of Champions without any machine work whatsoever. Yes, Champions are very much an agricultural implement which can still run with the most basic of refurb, but there are those who want to do a Champion as well as it can be done. First step is to give your machinist a copy of a Studebaker Shop Manual.

1. Carefully magnaflux the block around the exhaust seats. Many Champion blocks, especially those from trucks, are cracked.

2. Most Champions have severely worn lifter bores. Studebaker's answer was to offer .001" and .005" oversize lifters. These are NLA. To do it right, he'll have to buy tooling to ream the lifter bores oversize, find and insert bushings and ream back to take new standard lifters.

3. Champions have a reputation of being oil burners, partly because there are no valve stem seals. We've been machining the new valve guides to take modern positive valve stem seals.

4. The block deck usually needs to be milled flat.

5. The main bearing bores usually need line honed.

6. Hard exhaust seats must be shallow depth. Using a standard depth seat can hit water. One of our members here paid huge money to an east coast restoration shop and got back an engine which leaked around the seats.

7. Remind him to read the specs in the Shop Manual; this isn't a BBC. Building many big bore engines, machinists automatically think in terms of larger clearances and ring end gaps.

8. We recondition all the connecting rod big ends.

9. Clean all the bolt holes with a bottoming tap.

10. Remind him to read the Shop Manual procedure on in installing and tightening the wrist pin pinch bolts.

Good luck.

Jack Vines

[poweroptions]

Yes, CASOs, we know you've done hunnerds of Champions without any machine work whatsoever. Yes, Champions are very much an agricultural implement which can still run with the most basic of refurb, but there are those who want to do a Champion as well as it can be done. First step is to give your machinist a copy of a Studebaker Shop Manual.

1. Carefully magnaflux the block around the exhaust seats. Many Champion blocks, especially those from trucks, are cracked.

2. Most Champions have severely worn lifter bores. Studebaker's answer was to offer .001" and .005" oversize lifters. These are NLA. To do it right, he'll have to buy tooling to ream the lifter bores oversize, find and insert bushings and ream back to take new standard lifters.

3. Champions have a reputation of being oil burners, partly because there are no valve stem seals. We've been machining the new valve guides to take modern positive valve stem seals.

4. The block deck usually needs to be milled flat.

5. The main bearing bores usually need line honed.

6. Hard exhaust seats must be shallow depth. Using a standard depth seat can hit water. One of our members here paid huge money to an east coast restoration shop and got back an engine which leaked around the seats.

7. Remind him to read the specs in the Shop Manual; this isn't a BBC. Building many big bore engines, machinists automatically think in terms of larger clearances and ring end gaps.

8. We recondition all the connecting rod big ends.

9. Clean all the bolt holes with a bottoming tap.

10. Remind him to read the Shop Manual procedure on in installing and tightening the wrist pin pinch bolts.

Good luck.

Jack Vines

Mr. Vines, that makes me nervous. This fellow I speak of only rebuilds flatheads and nothing else. He was referred to me through my longtime mechanic here in east Texas. He has a 48 Merc convert. flathead 8 there now being rebuilt. With all of your pointers and the fact he only rebuilds flatheads I am still shaking in my boots. I want my Champion done right the first time and so many mechanics I talk to WON'T read a damn thing when I give them my manuals. Call it the know it all factor here in Texas.

[jackb]

Does the "know it all" factor come with a written guarantee ? Check to see if SI has any left over NOS "fitted" blocks. Short money, easy shipping... and assy. line fitted pistons & lifters....

[kxet]

What do you do with lifter oiling passage that is drilled from side plate gasket surface? My 49 Champion leaked and I tapped the holes and screwed in a set screw and it works well, what did factory engines have to plug these passages if any thing?

[karterfred88]

Take the manual to the "flat head rebuilder", there is nothing gloriously different in a Studebaker engine. Note that there may be certain areas where the Studebaker engine may be weaker than most, such as under the valve seats. If after reading the manual, he decides that the Studebaker is so inferior to a Ford, Hudson, Farm tractor, etc., flat heads he's rebuilt and won't do it, walk away. Thousands have been done by other rebuilders and came out fine, running for another 10, 20, 30 years. No guarantees anywhere that yours will come out fine wherever you go. Unfortunately they are not "deep on the ground" anymore so fixing them is the only option. Sometimes, some ingenuity will be required to get it done. If it helps soothe you mind, ask him for a list of people and engines he has done, contact those people and ask them if it worked out as expected and they are satisfied.

[poweroptions]

Take the manual to the "flat head rebuilder", there is nothing gloriously different in a Studebaker engine. Note that there may be certain areas where the Studebaker engine may be weaker than most, such as under the valve seats. If after reading the manual, he decides that the Studebaker is so inferior to a Ford, Hudson, Farm tractor, etc., flat heads he's rebuilt and won't do it, walk away. Thousands have been done by other rebuilders and came out fine, running for another 10, 20, 30 years. No guarantees anywhere that yours will come out fine wherever you go. Unfortunately they are not "deep on the ground" anymore so fixing them is the only option. Sometimes, some ingenuity will be required to get it done. If it helps soothe you mind, ask him for a list of people and engines he has done, contact those people and ask them if it worked out as expected and they are satisfied.

THANKS, that made me feel a helluva lot better. This rebuilder is known here in east Texas and has a good reputation. I'll take Jack Vines 10 pointers along with my shop manuals.

[Dwain G.]

What do you do with lifter oiling passage that is drilled from side plate gasket surface? My 49 Champion leaked and I tapped the holes and screwed in a set screw and it works well, what did factory engines have to plug these passages if any thing?

Stude did come up with a fix.......in 1959! A package of 12 aluminum plugs to drive into the 12 holes. Part #1549330.

[Mikado282]

Cracks around the valves in Ford flathead V8's were repaired by driving iron filings in the cracks and letting them rust in the block outside for a year or two and then machining the blocks. I assume other engine blocks were treated in a similar manner back in the day.

Edit: My grandfather owned a garage and auto repair business in the 20's & 30's. This was told to me by my father in the late 60's when I was trying to rebuild a Rambler flathead 6 and ran into cracks around the valve seats.

[PackardV8]

Cracks around the valves in Ford flathead V8's were repaired by driving iron filings in the cracks and letting them rust in the block outside for a year or two and then machining the blocks. I assume other engine blocks were treated in a similar manner back in the day.

Learn something every day here. I've been building engines for more than fifty years and never heard of that trick.

jack vines

[wdills]

Cracks around the valves in Ford flathead V8's were repaired by driving iron filings in the cracks and letting them rust in the block outside for a year or two and then machining the blocks. I assume other engine blocks were treated in a similar manner back in the day.

Jack, Please don't use this repair method on my engine.

[rkapteyn]

Stude did come up with a fix.......in 1959! A package of 12 aluminum plugs to drive into the 12 holes. Part #1549330.

I stock these 1549330 plugs at $1.50 ea plus $3.00 shipping.

Robert Kapteyn
studebaker@mac.com

[Ron Dame]

Would people 'back in the day' really wait a year or two for a repair? I doubt I would.

Cracks around the valves in Ford flathead V8's were repaired by driving iron filings in the cracks and letting them rust in the block outside for a year or two and then machining the blocks. I assume other engine blocks were treated in a similar manner back in the day.

[PackardV8]

Jack, Please don't use this repair method on my engine.

Hi, Wayne,

No worries ;>) We magnafluxed the block for your dad's build carefully and no cracks were found.

jack vines

[kxet]

Thanks for info on oil passage plugs, on flathead ford cracks, I was told to hammer razor blades in the cracks, sounded like a waste of time. Used car lot stuff, 2 mile or 2 minute guarOnteed.. I tapped the oil holes and used threaded plugs for Stude, people told me to replace valve covers but they were square, old engines will run with loose lifter bores. My idea is to drive them,and the oil leaks from covers are fixed. Took Studebaker years to fix, wonder what problem was.