R2 Avanti wont start...

[larry r bunton]

Hello, I have a 63 R2 Avanti and we are having some ignition problems. The car doesnt seem do te getting any fire so I checked the fire out of the coil and to the spark plug and there is plenty of spark there. Then I checked the fire across points with the key on and there is nothing there. I replaced the condenser, coil, plug wires, cleaned points. I checked the continuity though the points to ground and it is all connected. Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks

63 Avanti R2

[buddymander]

all things indicate a rift in the space/time continuum....Actually, your tests are inconclusive because it is impossible to have spark at the coil and plug and NOT have any current at the points. Period.

[larry r bunton]

right.....the car is not firing at all. Could it be the timing? What gets me is the car was running and it just stopped.

[buddymander]

Step One: Check to be sure that there is sufficient current to the positive side of the coil.

[GTtim]

When the key is switched to start, there should be 12 volts at the plus side. When the key is run, it should be about 5 I think.

Tim K.
'64 R2 GT Hawk

[Guest]

My guess is you have a points not grounding issue. meaning the points never contact enough to get coil saturation. Or your system has a contant ground. Need the check DC VOLTAGE to positive side of coil. I believe that should be around 9.5 volts. Take your wire lose from you negitive side and check voltage on the negitive side too. Without it hooked up it sould also read 9.5 volts. then i would take you condensor lose from the points and ohm out you points. put your positive lead on the wire going to the points negitive to ground. rotate your distrbtor and see if you get infinity when open and a reading when closed. if you never see changes which way is it. If you always getting a reading you have a grounded circut check for a bare wire or connector touching your breaker plate watch where the wire passes though the housing could be bare if it has a ceramic connector to pass thought the housing check it closely too. If you never get a reading then you points are not making contact, remove them and clean the contact surfaces well. once you get a reading both ways gap your points with a feeler gauge i think the book calls for .016 if the points are new i would put it up to .018 they will wear. check for spark. you also might want to go the local autoparts store and buy a spark tester 6 bucks and will help you in the future. you can use anything non conductive to break open the points and the coil should fire. i hope that helps

Erin Hays
"From Stuck and Rusty to Slick steel and sex appeal"
RZRECTD
1961 Hawk
1962 Lark
1963 Wagonaire

[larry r bunton]

It seems to me that it might have slipped time or something. I'm sure the coil is drawing enough current.....the coil is brand new and all my voltage readings seem correct. I'm thinking its out of time for this reason.....I removed the right side spark plug closest to the firewall and the spark plug tip was bent and was slightly touching the electrode. Thinking that cylinder didnt fire and maybe the piston came up and bent the plug. Thanks for your input Erin.

63 Avanti R2

[PackardV8]

Hi, Erin,

Studebakers with their gear-driven camshafts rarely "slip time" like the GM plastic chain-drives do. Even if it were to happen, there is no way the piston could hit the spark plug electrode. Something else is going on there.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by 1961HAWK
i think the book calls for .016 if the points are new i would put it up to .018 they will wear.

Actually...the opposite. The points don't wear...the rubbing block does...meaning the gap gets BIGGER over time. Check it out. I always set points with a dwell meter. Go back and check the dwell in 3,000 miles or so. You'll find LESS dwell than your initial setting.

(EDIT...I had this correct in my mind, but wrong by the time it got put in writing. Erin is right...as the rubbing block on the points wear, the gap gets SMALLER, the dwell time and angle gets bigger. Gap your new points at the wide side of the spec and/or set your dwell at the low side of the spec. Sorry about that)

I'm with buddymander. If you have a hot spark at the plugs, there is no way the points aren't working correctly. Need more information.

What are the symptoms that lead you to believe "the car doesn't seem to be getting any fire"?

When you say "out of time", do you mean cam timing or ignition timing? What leads you to think this?

The spark plug with the electrode closed up worries me. I'd pull ALL the plugs and check them. What spark plugs are you running (brand and number)?

[Guest]

Thanks Jack, i have rebuilt a few studebakers i am aware they have gears....

Larry,
i doubt you have slipped time anymore than the distributor moving. look at you new coil and make sure it say for external resistor only. if you have an internally resisted coil that might not help. check gap on all your plugs. when was the last time they were out is it possible you bent it during your problem of it not running? one of the Good things about points is you can always static time it. but first you have to have fire.... i am amusming (and you know what happens when 1 assumes) that the rotor is turning when you crank the engine. I have never, but im know a few people have sheared their distibutor pins.

Erin Hays
"From Stuck and Rusty to Slick steel and sex appeal"
RZRECTD
1961 Hawk
1962 Lark
1963 Wagonaire

[larry r bunton]

could it be ingnition timing? new champ.Y 18 sparkplugs but when i took them out they had gas on them,coil is external,spark at coil and plugs points.maybe a loose piece of carbon bent tne plug closed? thanks larry 63 avanti r2

[N8N]

oughta be using RJ12YCs in a R2 motor. they are shorter reach than the H18Ys used in other Stude OHV engines. that could be a possible problem. That said I am running the Bosch equiv. of H18Y in my R1 with no issues (used them because they were near new and I didn't have any RJ12YCs laying around,) but I have no idea what my heads originally came off of (they are the correct casting number, but they were also used on standard late 289s, according to Jon Myer the reach is different because heads intended for R-engines had a deeper recess milled in for the spark plug.) If yours are original R2 heads reach might be an issue and if you had a bent electrode I'd change 'em.

that reminds me I oughta check the thread length in the heads when I change spark plugs...

but if your plugs are all covered with gas but you still have spark that says to me that something ain't right timing wise. Is it spitting back when you try to start it by any chance? I think it's time to pull the dist. and check the gear, also might want to pull the driver's side valve cover and check cam timing, make sure you didn't lose a tooth up front.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight

http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[larry r bunton]

the plugs are J 18 Y same as J12Y both the same 3/8 long it calls for the J12Y but they replace with J18Y.it just turns over but no start. maybe in the carburator? we just put new flange gaskets on it today, started it run for maybe 30 sec. and quit.cold blooded car. and will not start. Thanks 63 avanti R2

[buddymander]

I think we should all just show up over at his garage at the same time and get this thing figured out once and for all.....better fix some sandwiches....

[JDP]

Again, check to make sure the plugs are not fuel fouled, easily done in cold weather. Once fouled, no way it will start.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)