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Parts to build an R2?

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  • Engine: Parts to build an R2?

    We are in the process of building an R2. for a 1960 Lark We have some questions.

    Are the same parts used to build an Avanti R2 as a regular car with an R2?

    An R2 needs to run an Avanti vibration damper and pulleys. If not, what should be used.

    We understand that you should use an Avanti water manifold which is what the water pump mounted in. The parts book shows that both the R1 and R2 Avantis ran the same water maniflod. Is this correct or should something else be used?

    Thanks for your help and information!

  • #2
    The R-2 water manifold for a Lark/Hawk is one of the hardest parts to find. That plus the extension forward of the Avanti water manifold makes it a necessity especially in a 60 Lark. Back in the 90's I had to buy an entire engine to get the needed water manifold to bring my R-2 Hawk back to it's original condition.
    59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
    60 Lark convertible V-8 auto
    61 Champ 1/2 ton 4 speed
    62 Champ 3/4 ton 5 speed o/drive
    62 Champ 3/4 ton auto
    62 Daytona convertible V-8 4 speed & 62 Cruiser, auto.
    63 G.T. Hawk R-2,4 speed
    63 Avanti (2) R-1 auto
    64 Zip Van
    66 Daytona Sport Sedan(327)V-8 4 speed
    66 Cruiser V-8 auto

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    • #3
      I don't care if it's original, I just want the super charger to fit under the hood. I'm building a street rod. I'm putting a Champion cab on a station wagon frame.7

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      • #4
        If you go to the Studebaker Truck Talk site, go to the top of the page where it says something about pictures, and scroll down to Rob Young E9 clone, you can see what I'm building.

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        • #5
          Warren's info still applies, you do not need a Avanti Water Manifold, you probably will not have a Radiator Fill Tank and a Radiator that far forward as the Champ Truck has no room for all that, you need the R2 Lark setup for your Studemino.
          StudeRich
          Second Generation Stude Driver,
          Proud '54 Starliner Owner
          SDC Member Since 1967

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          • #6
            Having built an R2 Lark myself, I have some experience to draw from. You're right-- finding a Lark/Hawk water manifold is next to impossible, and the Lark style Supercharger bracket that mounts on top of the water manifold is only slightly less difficult to get... so here are some ideas to consider, especially if being "factory correct" is not your goal.
            Finding a '57-'58 Golden Hawk supercharger mount is quite a bit easier, and mounts the supercharger to any Studebaker V8 of any year, as long as you use the standard, ordinary V8 water manifold used from 1952? up to 1960?-- easily identified by the thermostat housing which has 4 bolts. Last I checked, Myer Studebaker in Duncan, Ohio has several of these supercharger brackets at reasonable cost. The reason I couldn't use one of those in my '64 Daytona is because that Golden Hawk supercharger mounting bracket mounts the supercharger slightly higher, and the '64 hood is lower than previous years making hood clearance an issue. In a Lark, using Avanti motor mounts lowers the engine, I think, around an inch which helps, but not quite enough. '63 and earlier Larks have slightly more hood clearance. Do Champs have even more hood clearance? I don't know-- perhaps someone else does.
            Another advantage to using the Golden Hawk bracket rather than trying to fabricate a supercharger mount, is that the Golden Hawk bracket also provides the hinge/pivot point for the belt tensioner arm and pulley. I think Myer has those as well. No problem mounting the newer SN60 supercharger to the Golden Hawk bracket.
            1950 Commander Land Cruiser
            1951 Champion Business Coupe
            1951 Commander Starlight
            1952 Champion 2Dr. Sedan
            1953 Champion Starlight
            1953 Commander Starliner
            1953 2R5
            1956 Golden Hawk Jet Streak
            1957 Silver Hawk
            1957 3E5 Pick-Up
            1959 Silver Hawk
            1961 Hawk
            1962 Cruiser 4 speed
            1963 Daytona Convertible
            1964 Daytona R2 4 speed
            1965 Cruiser
            1970 Avanti

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            • #7
              A couple more ideas to gain more clearance: '64 supercharger pulleys are smaller in diameter than '63 for added hood clearance. Studebaker engineers also reduced the '64 crankshaft pulley diameter an equal amount so that the ratio between the two stayed the same. (a trick, then, to get more boost, is to use a '63 crank pulley with a '64 blower pulley which spins the blower faster...)
              Another idea if you still don't have enough clearance would be to add spacers between the frame and body to raise the body slightly; or to cut the engine mounts off the frame and remount them slightly lower on the frame. (you can't go very far there, if you're using the original steering mechanism!) A tiny bit here, a tiny bit there, and soon you've gained a lot!
              1950 Commander Land Cruiser
              1951 Champion Business Coupe
              1951 Commander Starlight
              1952 Champion 2Dr. Sedan
              1953 Champion Starlight
              1953 Commander Starliner
              1953 2R5
              1956 Golden Hawk Jet Streak
              1957 Silver Hawk
              1957 3E5 Pick-Up
              1959 Silver Hawk
              1961 Hawk
              1962 Cruiser 4 speed
              1963 Daytona Convertible
              1964 Daytona R2 4 speed
              1965 Cruiser
              1970 Avanti

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              • #8
                Is the issue with the Avanti water manifold that the coolant reservoir tank and fill cap sits to high to be able to shut the hood on a Lark? If that is the main issue, I know that you can replace the reservoir tank with a standard thermostat housing which would lower the height of the engine a bunch to gain clearance. I did this on an Avanti we owned years ago because the reservoir tank was bad.

                Just trying to figure out exactly what is different about the water manifolds on the Lark - Hawk R2 engines.

                Thanks for everyone's ideas and thoughts!

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                • #9
                  The Avanti mounts the Supercharger low and to the right of the engine, while the Lark/Hawk mounts it up on top directly in front of the carburetor. I don't think there's room in the engine compartment for the supercharger to mount in the Avanti position without extensive modification to the inner fender on the passenger side. otherwise Studebaker would have put it there. Google some pictures of Studebaker Lark R2 engine and Avanti R2 engine.
                  1950 Commander Land Cruiser
                  1951 Champion Business Coupe
                  1951 Commander Starlight
                  1952 Champion 2Dr. Sedan
                  1953 Champion Starlight
                  1953 Commander Starliner
                  1953 2R5
                  1956 Golden Hawk Jet Streak
                  1957 Silver Hawk
                  1957 3E5 Pick-Up
                  1959 Silver Hawk
                  1961 Hawk
                  1962 Cruiser 4 speed
                  1963 Daytona Convertible
                  1964 Daytona R2 4 speed
                  1965 Cruiser
                  1970 Avanti

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                  • #10
                    Everything but the Kitchen Sink! That went to the R3!

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                    • #11
                      drrotor That may be the answer. Seeing as how a stock look is not the objective why not use an avanti mount and just rework the inner fender if that becomes an issue.

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                      • #12
                        Well part of my suggestions come not only from getting it to look correct as possible, but also because my recommendations are all bolt-on not requiring fabrication and welding, but also I believe would be cheaper. Avanti water manifolds aren't cheap, and there is a surplus of Golden Hawk mounting brackets, relative to existing cars to put them on... Once again, check with Myer Studebaker...
                        1950 Commander Land Cruiser
                        1951 Champion Business Coupe
                        1951 Commander Starlight
                        1952 Champion 2Dr. Sedan
                        1953 Champion Starlight
                        1953 Commander Starliner
                        1953 2R5
                        1956 Golden Hawk Jet Streak
                        1957 Silver Hawk
                        1957 3E5 Pick-Up
                        1959 Silver Hawk
                        1961 Hawk
                        1962 Cruiser 4 speed
                        1963 Daytona Convertible
                        1964 Daytona R2 4 speed
                        1965 Cruiser
                        1970 Avanti

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          When I had an R3 in my 63 Superlark (1970) I used an Avanti water manifold and side mount blower mount. The inner fender needed a depresion for supercharger clearance (I used a large rawhide mallet) and to run an engine mounted fan, (electric fans were not on the market yet) the radiator needed to go to the front of the core support channel. To do that, I cut out the hood latch area of the grill panel and a portion of the hood brace that mounted the hood latch bullet. The hood brace interfered with the radiator tank when it was moved forward. I think I also had to cut aa small radius in rear lip of the bottom of the core support channel for lower hose clearance. To hold the hood down I used hood pins (they came from a 69 Superbee 440 six pack). I did not use the Avanti expansion tank. I just used a standard thermostat housing on the manifold. My point in all of this is you should be able to run an Avanti setup if the Lark/Hawk parts cannot be found. Today you can fit a cross flow aluminum radiator without a fill cap in the core support far enough forward for clearance. Use an upper hose inline fill cap like used in later Avanti II's. It can be done.
                          I have also used GH mounts and they work in a 63 and earlier Lark without hitting the hood.
                          You should use an Avanti style damper. The Lark/Hawk style is the same as an Avanti damper except it has a belt groove cut in the inertia ring. The damper with the belt groove will also work with a GH setup. Both styles are available new reproduction from Studebaker suppliers. You will need an R2 carburetor and an R2 fuel pump with a boost reference line.
                          Other than the water manifold/blower mount/damper assembly and the number prefix stamped on the ID pad (RS vs JTS), R2's in an Avanti were the same as in Larks and Hawks. They do use different carburetor bonnets. The Avanti setup is straight and the Lark/Hawk style is offset. Good luck.
                          james r pepper

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