259 upgrades

[Caso wannabe]

Hi everyone.just sitting in my garage looking at my '64 commander wishing it was warmer and thinking about what I want to do to it.what are some cost effective up grades? It has a '63 259 2 bbl and a 3 SPD manual.I thought a delco dist w/ a pertronics multi spark with a re curved dist. Intake modified to accept a 4100 autolite carb,Heads milled ,060/,090 intakes ported with necked down stems 1.78 or 1.84 valves. Dual exhaust w/ x pipe.Main concern is keeping high velocity thru ports.Not looking for 400 HP,but 250 HP would be great. Maybe some 1.6 to 1 rockers by rocker arm specialists? or did I just smoke too much weed in the '70's and am dreaming? It's a light car and will get lighter,and should be fairly quick with the right gearing.Speed limit is 75 mph where I live and I plan to drive it A Lot.probably every day.I just want it to sound good and surprise all the young guys that don't know what the heck it is.Already been mistaken for a Mopar..It's a 1 to 2 year project any Ideas? Thanks in advance for your responses
Dave

[am not r2]

If originality is not important then I would suggest the dist. be a Dave Tbow unit. The Mallory will accept a mult. strike(MSD) unit.The basis for any future upgrades. Do the exhaust first. Clean up the manifolds: port match and deflash and the like.
As for valves and velocity through the ports I would suggest you talk to Jeff Rice. He has invested the time and resources to know his stuff. Buy him a beer, pick his brain.
I also would use two words of caution. Stop and Turn. Get the brakes and tires and suspension really dialed it. It makes it more fun to drive and if the limit is 75 there then you KNOW you will do more.

[DEEPNHOCK]

I don't know if Dave has any of those Mallory billet units left.
Mallory was sold, and that model did not make the cut at the new Mallory.
But I do believe he has some decent electronic conversion distributors available.

Be patient with T-Bow. He has a bum knee and is not moving around real fast...

If originality is not important then I would suggest the dist. be a Dave Tbow unit. The Mallory will accept a mult. strike(MSD) unit.The basis for any future upgrades. Do the exhaust first. Clean up the manifolds: port match and deflash and the like.
As for valves and velocity through the ports I would suggest you talk to Jeff Rice. He has invested the time and resources to know his stuff. Buy him a beer, pick his brain.
I also would use two words of caution. Stop and Turn. Get the brakes and tires and suspension really dialed it. It makes it more fun to drive and if the limit is 75 there then you KNOW you will do more.

[PackardV8]

Yes, every modification you mention will work and will add horsepower to your 259".

Not looking for 400 HP,but 250 HP would be great . . . or did I just smoke too much weed in the '70's and am dreaming?

Don't know about the weed, but definitely are dreaming. Without professional porting of the heads and a high rise aluminum intake and and an Isky ST5/R2+ cam or better, a 259" won't get to 250 HP. Then, if actually making 250 normally aspirated horsepower, a 259" will be very soft below 3,000 RPMs.

Bottom line - that's why all the high performance V8s from Studebaker were supercharged.

BTW - what's with the Autolite 4100 carb? IIRC, all the Ford guys threw them away and put on a Holley. Since the Edelbrock is much closer to a bolt-on, why not?

jack vines

[j.byrd]

PackardV8, those old Autolites and the newer versions by Holley and now Summit are actually quite good on an everyday engine. They have the flat top with no float bowls to spill or leak, you can actually change jets and set float level very easy, and the older ones came in 480 and 600 cfm sizes ! I ran one of the new versions on several cars, and the old FOMOCO part number'd ones on a LOT of cars....all small cubic inch of course.... and they were pretty much flawless. The last new one I bought was for our Sunbeam Tiger with an old 306 horse (289 hi-po) Shelby engine that had a few mods, and it was perfect. It may be a really good, reliable, smooth running carb for an everyday driven Studebaker too . Hmmm, I'm wanting one of Jeff's intakes for our 55, this testimony has got me to thinking again, ha !

[63larkr1]

Dave,
Most of what you are saying is good. You will not need a new distributor, just an electronic conversion in a Delco or Prestolite. All Pure Stock Studebaker guys use stock distributors, and the Plain Brown Wrapper still has stock points. An Edelbrock carb properly jetted is a good choice and easy to work on.
The key is the head work and most guys can do it themselves with some direction and time. Velocity is what I always shoot for when I do heads, and a Studebaker V8 will give you a good result in HP gain. If you use a stock Studebaker afb four barrel intake don't forget to smooth out the sharp edges inside. Isky will custom grind a cam that will work well for you. I have seen a bored 259 make over 300. You may not get that, but if you select a cam and build for low-end torque with flat top pistons and high compression Blue printed block you should come out with a good running 259.
Studebaker made an R1 high performance engine and they run great if you tune them. Do not ever use dish pistons, compassion is the way to go and it will have a good burn.
My R1 Lark has run a best of 13.84@98.51 with out a blower in stock form.
I built my 1964 Challenger to be a normally aspirated Studebaker engine that uses high velocity heads and big intake valves and smaller than stock exhaust valves and my own custom cam grind. I used lots of home made stuff. I'm still braking it in but, the last pass on an 1/8th mile track was 7.26. I'm tiring to make the point that you don't need a super charger to run fast.
Richard
Make sure to work on the details, so it all works together.

[PackardV8]

I built my 1964 Challenger to be a normally aspirated Studebaker engine that uses high velocity heads and big intake valves and smaller than stock exhaust valves and my own custom cam grind.

We've all been in awe of Richard's success with his normally aspirated Studes. If there were a "claimer rule" that allowed any competitor to buy the winner's engine for a given amount, any of us would be way money ahead to buy his, rather than trying to build our own. Richard is modest about his accomplishments, but a guesstimate of duplicating his times would be more than $2500 in head and intake work and $1000 in cam, lifters and springs.

Studebaker made an R1 high performance engine and they run great if you tune them.

Agree; Richard has done wonders tuning the R1. AFAIK, no one has been quicker/faster on the track with an R1 than has he. FWIW, the R1 has 10.25 compression and makes 240 horsepower. To get that compression in a 259" would require custom pistons. Again to make 250 horsepower with thirty fewer cubic inches requires serious head and intake work and a top end cam grind which will then be down on torque below 3000 RPMs.

Bottom line - The supercharger Studebaker used is a shortcut to horsepower. So yes it's possible to build a really strong normally aspirated Studebaker V8; it's just not inexpensive or easy. Unless one is as talented and hard working as Richard, it will cost to get professional help. CASO wannabe shared his dream sheet of an upgraded 259" and we all agree it is sound, will work and run strong. How strong depends on all the above.

jack vines

[thunderations]

Bang for the buck? Do the intake/carb, exhaust and have a turbo installed while you're at it. Cheap, free horse power.

[Caso wannabe]

So,the prestolite dist.is OK? I read somewhere that they were junk...Very erratic timing,and any delco was way better. The autolite carb has annular discharge Venturi's and have no gasket below fuel level and are easy to find in 480/600 cfm sizes.the brakes and suspension are first priority.found a disc brake setup from a '64 cruiser.price is good or is a Turner setup superior?I plan on using a Ranger 8.8 rear a/disc's as well.they are cheap at the local pull a part

[Studebakercenteroforegon]

All a Prestolite distributor needs is the new, improved bronze bushed sintered metal advance weights installed and it will be a very good distributor. The original laminated steel, non-bushed advance weights would wear out where they pivot, leading to inconsistent advancing.