Electrical: For those thinking 6V is a problem but don't want the hassle of switching to 12V

[Dan White]

Saw this on my Hudson forum. Looks interesting and takes the 8V battery discussion out of play!

http://12voltseasy.com/index.php

[LeoH]

So have you tried it or are you planning on installing one?

[Frank DuVal]

Well, the 8 volt battery should always be out of discussion, as to charge one you need to adjust the voltage regulator to make the generator put out at least 9.5 volts. That is way too much strain on a typical older 6 volt generator system.

Now, a box that measures 6 x 6 x 3 and has small screw terminals (like those green Phoenix connectors in their photo) just isn't going to provide much amperage to the starter, so just what does this box do? I suspect a small12 V Lithium battery and charger that runs on 6 volts, like those small jump boxes I see for sale.

I am very skeptical! I shall not be the first to try one.

In general, just replace your battery cables with some really large wire (0 or so) and make all the connections clean. The 6 volt system will start then. This should be cheaper than this snake oil.

[Dan White]

One of the Hudson guys has it on his '54 Hornet and said it works well. The only 6V car I have is a '50 Hudson Commodore 8 and I have never had a problem with it starting with its stock setup so no reason to buy or use this conversion. Just throwing it out for those that have 6V problems. I doubt it is using a Lithium battery this is probably a DC pumper circuit that basically can for a short duration increase the voltage to what ever it is attached to.

[jclary]

Reading what little sketchy info is in the ad...I'm thinking it has zero to do with the starter. Looks like the emphasis is on the coil and ignition circuit. It provides a momentary boost to the coil for a 12 volt kick to the ignition circuit so it does not have to share the six volt heavy current draw to the starter motor. Perhaps like the mechanical boost from a spring loaded impulse coupling in old magnetos. I'm not sure. It could be something as simple as a storage capacitor powered by a rechargeable battery protected by a circuit that limits heavy six volt current back to the device once it senses the vehicle has started.

I would like to see the installation instructions and a wiring schematic.

[gordr]

Sounds like it is attempting to address the wrong end of the "problem". Most of the "problem" with six-volt cars being extremely slow cranking that doesn't gin up enough compression to get a combustible mixture in the cylinder. Boosting the spark won't help much, if it at all. A good battery, good heavy-duty battery cables, and a good starter will make it right. After all, those six-volt cars, when new, worked well in all climates, if properly maintained.

[Hallabutt]

What gordr said. For a goodly number of years I had been thinking about using two 6V Optima batteries in series. Kind of double the fun without many drawbacks or alterations to the car. Just need to enlarge the original battery box and figure out how to connect the two. I finally saw one done last year in a 1952 Chevrolet. I asked the owner of the car how he liked it. He said that he had done it several years ago, loves it and had no problems.

[dannyo]

put my 2 cents worth in ,i like the optima battery , at one time had 3 cars that i had to start at monthly times , i could carry the battery from car to car easy, no asid getting on me + thay are lighter weight only 30.00 more than the tractor style heavy batterys lasts a lot longer , i always have truble with starters on 6v, i would still like to have a 6v, car start off 12v than go back to 6v, some how cut out the 12v while car is running , like using a quick disconect or ? any way i only have 1 53 4door left that is 6v , when i sell it i probly wont have any more of those .

[TWChamp]

I'll never understand any complaints about a car using a 6 volt battery. An engine doesn't have to turn over fast to start, as I can hand crank my 1949 Chevy 1 1/2 ton truck and my Model A's. If an engine cranks over slower than normal, then something needs to be fixed, and the four main things would be a worn out starter, where the bushings are worn enough to let the armature drag on the field shoes, thus drawing too much current and dropping the available voltage at the coil. The second thing is using starter cables that are too thin and can't carry the current needed by the starter. The third thing is loose or dirty connections, which drop voltage. And the fourth thing is using a battery that is too small, or just worn out. Most times it pays in the long run to buy the battery with the most amp hour rating, especially for cars used in cold climates.

When I bought my 1971 Scout in 1976, the battery was so weak that the 232 engine turned over one compression, came to a stop, then slowly went over another compression and fired up. A new battery fixed that problem, but this shows that the engine doesn't need a lot of speed to fire up.

[6hk71400]

In general, just replace your battery cables with some really large wire (0 or so) and make all the connections clean. The 6 volt system will start then. This should be cheaper than this snake oil.[/QUOTE]

In Arizona heat can sometimes be a problem. Right now our cold snap of 65 degrees has been broken and it should be 80 tomorrow. I had a 48 Commander that the starting when warm was a problem. I went to a NAPA store to get a large wire 0 cables. The young guy at the counter looked at me like I had lobsters coming out of my ears. An experienced guy came up from the back, got me the cables and I put them on the car, and one rev later started and went down the road.

Bob Miles
Tucson AZ

[altair]

Two 6 volt batteries in series won't do anything for you, you will still have 6 volts in the system. It would probably allow you 20 minutes cranking time when you only need 10 seconds. Both batteries need to be charged at the same time, charging one battery will not charge the other. The system could have been operating on just one battery and you would never know. One 6 volt battery will not charge another 6 volt battery, you need more electrical pressure than the value of the battery. That is why 12 volt systems put out 13.5 -14 volts and 6 volt systems put out 7.5 - 8 volts. If you have a container that is half full and has 10 lbs of pressure and another container that is full also with 10 lbs of pressure and they are connected together nothing will happen.

[Frank DuVal]

Two six volt batteries in series will get you 12 volts, two six volt batteries in parallel get you 6 volts, lots more available amps. But, as altair says, if you charge that 12 volt connection with 7.5 volts, the batteries will just go dead, not charge. SO, you need a set of relays (big, like starter solenoids) to wire the two batteries in series to run the starter, then parallel the two batteries to run the rets of the car and get charged form the 6 volt (7.5 volts output) generator system. "They" used to be available form some specialty battery supplier. But save your money and fix the 6 volt system.

[altair]

I meant parallel sorry.

[altair]

Many years ago the Roots Group British cars had a 12 volt system and the battery was as big as the engine. The charging system was designed just adequate for the average consumer, however in prolonged winter conditions with lights, heater, and electric wipers used on a regular daily basis the charging system was not adequate to maintain the battery and it would require to be charged one or two times during those prolonged times. I found this out the hard way with having to push the car on a regular basis, new battery new generator only to have the same thing happen. I sat down with a tech of the day and we determined the demand and the output, they were exactly the same, therefore the starting demand was not being replenished and over time the battery would fail. The purpose of the large 12 volt battery was to maintain sufficient storage for the winter months and then every thing would equalize. I had however exceeded those limits and didn't know it. With two or three external charges during the winter months solved the problems. Even though it was used every day and at high speed the generator only matched the demand and not that of the starter, that little bit was lost every day until it was dead.

[Hallabutt]

No doubt it's much easier to make an original 6V system work the way it was intended rather then add on or alter. A good battery, connections and ground should solve most of the problems. I have found that a single 6V Optima can go a long way to making the system work. When I restored my 1931 80R twenty six years ago, I put in a 46 lb. Interstate battery. It worked fine for about 5yrs, until one day it didn't. I had planned to show the car that weekend, what to do. It was an emergency so I pulled a fresh Optima out of one of the other cars, and crossed my fingers. The 16 lb. Optima started the big straight eight as easily as the old battery that was three times it's size! What started as and emergency fix has now lasted twenty years, still starting the car, with no leakage and no perceptible sulfating. I know that someday it will start to fail, but then I will just swap it into one of the Champions and cross my fingers. Who knows maybe another twenty years of service!