Electrical: 53 Commander

[bajaray]

Was the 53 Commander a 6 volt or 12 electircal system??

[Captain Billy]

6 volt positive ground

[Deaf Mute]

Remember the "POSITIVE GROUND" part of that. It can get you in trouble down the road because most accessoried that you fiond today are Negative ground.

Anyone know why it was determined that the Positive side was to be put to ground in the first place... and who came up with that idea?

[RadioRoy]

The story I heard had to do with lessening the galvanic corrosion, but I do not understand galvanic corrosion well enough to defend/refute the theory.

I wonder why negative ground was chosen eventually to be (almost) standardized. Does it have any advantage over positive ground?

Interestingly, about half of the six volt cars built were positive ground. That included:
-almost all the independents
-FoMoCo (except for 38 and older Lincolns
-Mopar
-prewar Cadillac/Lasalle

[bajaray]

I'm going to rewire the entire car to 12v neg ground, but would like to keep all the original gauges. or should I just buy all new 12v gauges????

[studeguy54]

I'd put new 12-volt gauges in it. If you want a decent set of aftermarket gauges for not a lot of money, check out Speedway Motors website www.speedwaymotors.com for them. A full set (6 gauges AND senders) will only set you back about $225.

[riversidevw]

There are 12 volt positive ground systems out there also, including a number of imports. My favorite example was from Studebaker-Packard. Packards and Clippers went to 12 volt systems in '55 model year, one year ahead of Studebaker Division. But the '55 Packards and Clippers kept positive ground. The very similar '56 versions were negative ground. Easy for new owners or inexperienced shops to inflict a lot of costly damage.

There are still well-intended and otherwise sane people who unknowingly reverse the polarity when installing a battery. Parts stores sometimes contribute to this. Seriously bad idea.

Is the '53 a decent original? Would be tempting to leave it alone, six volts and all.

[TWChamp]

I agree with Gil. My cars work fine with the original 6 volts + ground, including my GPS.
Certain years of Studebakers I think of as extra special and should be preserved as the factory built them, and the 1953 is right at the top of the list.

[rkapteyn]

There is this hype in the hobby that 6 volt systems have to be converted to 12 volt
When the 6 volt cars were build , they worked fine and there is no reason to change.
The myth started when 6 volt starters wore out and worked better on 12 volt.
Rather than rebuilding the 6 volt starters these "mechanics" got a few more month
of use out of the 6 volt starters and these 6 volt starters soon burned out and since they were already used 12 volt they bought 12 volt starters.
It is laziness!

Robert Kapteyn

[TWChamp]

I just thought of another benefit to staying with the original 6 volt battery. Besides the cost savings of not doing the change over, the batteries last longer. I've always gotten over 10 years of good service from my 6 volt batteries, but the 12 volt usually die between 4 and 6 years.

[Mike Van Veghten]

bajaray -

Go ahead and do the 6 to 12 volt swap, despite the naysayers.

I'm doing the same thing. Pretty difficult to put the modern radio/amplifier of choice, the modern electronic ignition, good head lights, etc., etc. into a 6 volt car.
Plus, the 6 volt batterys do not last any longer than a 12 volt battery...in my experience, in fact...

If you stay with the factory gauges, you'll need a method of dropping the voltage on some of them. There are many ways of doing that. Just spend some time searching the web. The gas sender, can be swapped for a later version in most cases. May take a little bending of the float or rotating the sender from it's original position, but not a big deal in any case.
As or the wire itself, the 6 volt wire system is larger than its 12 volt brother, because of having to deal with more amperage that the 6 volt systems ran on. The 12 volt will be smaller in gage, so you'll actually drop a few oz. of weight by going to a proper 12 volt system.
Just don't skimp on the main battery cables, big is good there.

Mike

P.s. - as long as you keep the engine in a good state of tune, the stock starter will live mostly happily with a dose of 12 volts...as long as you don't "grind and grind" on it if a problem arises. Fix the problem, then hit the key.
There is many a racer today that runs a 12 volt system using an 18 volt battery.

[riversidevw]

Despite my suggesting perhaps retaining the 6v setup, I have no problem with Mike's views. I've had decent experience with a couple of Optima 6v batteries; luck with most Group 1 wet acid batteries has been dismal. The 6v Optimas will fit the Group 1 tray if placed diagonally. The weird appearance can be mostly concealed by crafting your own topper... rectangular pieces of a durable plastic like Delrin can be purchased cut to order online. You can have good 6v headlights, but I think you would need E-Code (European) lights. (I use Cibie in my Speedster). I found 6v H4 halogen bulbs that draw about the same current as the old sealed beams. It's all a plug-in conversion, but requires more planning than walking out of Autozone with a pair of 12v sealed beams. Valid point on the radio... but agonizing over amplifiers? There's a temptation to configure our vintage toys to resemble something between a home theater and an electronic warfare room. How often is much of that stuff really used? My own inclination would be to consult Silvertone Exhaust regarding the sound effects in your V8 Commander. But that's an individual choice.

[53k]

The story I heard had to do with lessening the galvanic corrosion, but I do not understand galvanic corrosion well enough to defend/refute the theory.

I wonder why negative ground was chosen eventually to be (almost) standardized. Does it have any advantage over positive ground?

Interestingly, about half of the six volt cars built were positive ground. That included:
-almost all the independents
-FoMoCo (except for 38 and older Lincolns
-Mopar
-prewar Cadillac/Lasalle

I found that out the hard way. Went to an auction where a young guy brought in a '49 Buick Roadmaster that he had pulled out of someone's yard and got running. I was the only bidder and got the car for $125. It ran very smoothly and would move OK in Dynaslow. I went home to get my car trailer to pick up the car. When I got back, the battery was gone. I zipped down to my favorite battery warehouse and got a correct 6-volt battery. Not knowing that some cars very six-volt negative ground, I hooked up the battery as positive ground- fried the voltage regulator and messed up the generator.

[RadioRoy]

I'm going to rewire the entire car to 12v neg ground, but would like to keep all the original gauges. or should I just buy all new 12v gauges????

BEWARE! There is some misinformation in this thread. Do your research before doing any work, or hooking up the 12 volt battery, or throwing out any old parts.

You can use the 6 volt gauges with a Runtz gauge regulator. Randy Rundle's 5th avenue garage sells them.

http://fifthaveinternetgarage.com/

http://fifthaveinternetgarage.com/tech_tips.php

You cannot mix and match gauges and senders. If the gauge is six volt, the sender for that gauge must be 6 volt. But that combination can be run just fine with a gauge regulator. My 54 has been running that way for 24 years.

[riversidevw]

As far as my earlier mention of E-Code headlight conversions, here's an image of a Cibie headlight plug-in for my '55. I'm convinced that it's a technical improvement. I take some satisfaction in it. But I admit to myself that the extent of my night driving in this car has been negligible. And I'm relieved that my changes can be undone easily by another generation of collectors. (Ignore the parking light... something I've been working on, just got it functioning.)

A few years ago I also found a noticeable improvement in lighting just by replacing the aging stock 6v sealed beams in a '54 Lincoln with a new set of similar items from NAPA. Hope we keep some perspective, keeping these cars safely and reliably on the road with some sense of preservation.

Saturday morning update: If you are in a state with periodic (or random roadside) vehicle inspections, the E-Code lights (6v or 12v) might draw unwelcome attention. They concentrate more light on the road and right shoulder with very sharp vertical cut-off, reduced glare. US standards have always required more upward diffusion of light, supposedly to read street signs. Sorry for the digression.

Post a photo of that '53 Commander when you have a chance. The whole model lineup those years was attractive and interesting.

Gil