Anybody here familiar with the 4.6 liter engine as used in Ford Crown Vic police cars? These are being surplussed off here in Canada at prices ranging from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars, depending upon condition. I was wondering if the complete EFI system could be scavenged off one and used on a Stude V8. Or alternatively, use the entire power train for a modified Stude.
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Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands -
Hi, Gord,
The Ford 4.6 is huge externally, but then, so is the Stude V8. With your talent, you can make anything fit, but these days, the only current production engine I'd consider for a swap is the GM LS series; more horsepower and much better external packaging and much more aftermarket swap support.4.6 liter engine as used in Ford Crown Vic police cars? . . . use the entire power train for a modified Stude.
Again, with your talent, anything can be made to fit anything. The EFI fuel rails couldn't be used, as the Ford has alternating I/E porting. The pump, computer, ignition, coils and crank trigger system could be adapted, assuming one can weld in his own injector bungs, make his own fuel rails, coil brackets, and crank trigger mounting.I was wondering if the complete EFI system could be scavenged off one and used on a Stude V8.
The OEM wiring harness has miles of wire which wouldn't be used in a hot rod system, so either days of removing and repackaging, or buy a somewhat expensive aftermarket harness with the correct plugs to use the Ford OEM hardware.
One problem with using OEM systems is the computer is tied in with anti-theft software and when removed from the car, it thinks it's been stolen and won't start without the original key and associated hardware.
jack vinesPackardV8 -
it wont work. first you would have to adapt the balancer crank sensor to the stude balancer, then you would need cam sensors which are on the camshafts. the firing order is all wrong. removal of the anti theft is the easiest part. it would be cheaper and easier to buy a FItech system. using the entire engine and ecu system would be the only way to do it, its a very wide engine . it my fit some studes,1 Family owned 63 Studebaker Avanti 63r-1705 White with Orange interior , R2 4 speed.
Just purchased 63r-3623 R2 was a auto now dressed to a R3 with a4speed.Comment
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Much better, less expensive and easier methods. For reasons mentioned and many others, it would actually be easier to manufacture a "from scratch" set up if you want port fuel injection and the modern electronics for it, than trying to use assorted parts to fit a Stude V8. A complete swap would work, but would it be worth it? How many 100s of thousands of miles are on these "surplus" vehicles. Rebuilding, repairing the 4.6 is far more costly than any Stude engine. As said, a Chevy transplant is much easier--any late model Caprices or Tahoes/Suburbans?Comment
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What they said. Those 4.6 engines are very technically advanced and are susceptible to catastrophic failure when the timing chains slip (interference engine). Very expensive and difficult to repair.
RobComment
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Well, that pretty much answers my questions. Sounds like a non-starter from either approach. There are Tahoes and Suburbans come up, and I have an '08 as a regular driver right now that was ex-RCMP. Nearly all those are 4X4, though, so not suited for an engine swap into a car. But some 2WD pickups from the '90s show up from time to time, too. Back in June I got an '88 Chevy 3/4 ton pickup, was an ex-Park Ranger truck. Only $600, and it runs and drives great. But too useful as a truck to part it out for its power train.Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta BadlandsComment
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With enough time, skill and $$$ you can make anything work.Originally posted by gordr View Post
Simply adapting a modern FI system isn't going to accomplish much, even if done well. You might get a few more HP, and better drivability, but you will spend a lot of time and money for something which will be only a little better than a properly set up Studebaker engine. Even if you got a complete Ford engine for free, you'd spend a lot of money and energy to do the swap right.
If you want lots more HP and better running and reliability, a Chebby is the easier swap, and you can get both lots more HP and better running and reliability.
Or, you can spend some money and have a good running, adequate performing Studebaker engine which will not devalue your car.
Talk to Jack Vines. He can fix you up with a real Studebaker which will run well and not turn your car into a devalued mongolized something.
A good running Stude must be worth more than a Fordo-Stude of equal performance.Comment
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If I were in your situation and wanted to run the Studebaker V8, I would contact Holley and ask if this unit will work on a Stude engine. It is as simple as it gets for installation and might save you a lot of trouble. With the right air cleaner, no one would suspect you are running fuel injection.
Trying to build a 48 Studebaker for the 21st century.
See more of my projects at stilettoman.infoComment
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Take a look at the Mega Squirt, originally a DIY project with lots of various applications and appears to me to be good value.
http://megasquirt.info/
Uses (US) Motorola computer and can be used just for Ignition, or EFI as well.
Comes with set-up software for mapping engine. Worth a look !
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I am aware of Megasquirt. The Holley Sniper is new to me. The promo for it doesn't mention an O2 sensor, but I don't see how you can run an engine in closed-loop without one. One of the things that prompted the Crown Vic query was the CASO aspect. Now, throttle-body EFI runs just fine, that '88 Chevy truck I bought for $600 has it, on a 305. What's attractive about port EFI is that you can have a tuned induction system, with equal-length and fairly straight independent intake tubes for each port, which can really boost low-end torque. And nearly all newer cars have this; it's one of the ways to get impressive horsepower out of a small-displacement engine.
I will probably keep an eye out for the EFI off a Corvette or Camaro, or any other small-block Chevy with port EFI.Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta BadlandsComment
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Yes, port EFI can substantially improve an engine, but remember your limits are the intake path, heads, cam and combustion chamber design. Just squirting the fuel into the current intake ports probably won't do as much as you hope it will. Chevy spent millions on redesigns of all of the above to get where they are now. If you are doing it because it's cool then do it. If your wanting the results of the Chevy combo--swap in the whole thing. The Holley "sniper" is just a rip off of the FI Tech unit-it will have all the same sensors--even looks like the FI-Tech, but it's Holley, see the include kit parts "wide band O2 sensor". A TBI is better than a carburetor, but is still a "wet" system, with all it drawbacks. In max horsepower mode (WOT) the engine won't notice the difference from a carburetor. Finding The Chevy port EFI won't help much since none of the parts will fit and programing the computer once you do find a way to adapt the components is a programmers nightmare. Swap the whole thing. Or cobble together the parts from a Holley HP injection, make fuel rails add injector bungs to the intake, and play. By the time you adapt the Chevy OEM stuff to work you'll probably wish you had.Comment
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Here's an older thread that used some 4.6 EFI parts.....http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...ion-for-the-55Comment
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The Monkey guys put a twin turbo together with one of those fat V-6 engines in a Pantera.
A few things I would not have done...but they did...it fit. Sounded good, per the TV anyway.
MikeComment
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The "bearded" Monkey had to do a little intake/induction fabrication to get everything to work in the limited space??Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten View Post
trebligComment
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Somewhat out of character for me to respond to a thread like this, because I'm more a purest at heart. I accept that street rodding is part of the car culture and heaven knows the culture needs all the help it can get. Nothing that anyone says is ever going to dissuade anyone from " improving" on the way a car came from the factory, so I don't try. I can still appreciate the a uniquely designed and properly carried out street rod, but I am sick of seeing small block Chevrolets in everything, and have been for years!
I know that this is a CASO thread, but cheaper and easier certainly doesn't mean more interesting. I have thought that the Ford 4.6 has been long overlooked as a substitute for the SBC. It's not an easier swap because of the cam cover size, and because of the engineering required to do the job right, but the cars that I have seen with the application are certainly impressive!
"If you want lots more HP and better running and reliability, a Chebby is the easier swap, and you can get both lots more HP and better running and reliability." I wasn't going to respond to this thread until I read the above comment, because I couldn't disagree with anything that had been said previously but... "better running and reliability," no way! I wonder how many 4.6L eqComment
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