Brakes: Hill Holder working elevation

[wdills]

Since I finally have the car drivable, so I am starting to find and correct all the problems. How much elevation difference is required between front and rear wheels for the hill holder to work?

I have my Hawk sitting on stands with the front wheels about 6" higher than the rear. The hill holder doesn't work at all. Gives the impression that the ball is not even in there. So, if a 6" elevation difference is enough to make it work, I guess I m going to have to pull it apart and put a kit in it.

[rockne10]

I would avoid pulling it apart, as it is unlikely you will get it to not leak afterward. Flush the unit as much as you can with alcohol. Open both ends and flush it back and forth if possible. If the caged ball is not hindered by sludge it should require very little incline to be functional.

[jackb]

what is the profile of your rocker panels ? Make sure the rear is at least 2 inches or more below the front edge. I'd also remove the HH unit to see if the ball will move around. Work on the bench...

[55 56 PREZ 4D]

It depends on how long the car sat unused with old brake fluid in it.
One car I had must have sat for a very long spell. After removing the hill holder nothing moved inside it.
I disassembled it to find a thick jell that was difficult to clean with it apart.
No way would I have been able to flush it clean with it assembled.
I agree, to remove it and attempt to flush it without disassembly. If you can get the ball and cage to move around to help agitate whatever is in there,
it should clean up.

[55 56 PREZ 4D]

Standing still, 6" rise in 120 1/2" isn't a lot of grade. 2 degrees or so. 5 percent grade.
With the hill holder working correctly, the ball and cage would probably move but would it thoroughly seal the port to the master cylinder ?

[Dwain G.]

Is this your procedure for testing the hill holder? Push clutch pedal and hold down. Apply and then release brake pedal. Rear brakes should remain applied, and release as clutch pedal is released.

[TWChamp]

Is this your procedure for testing the hill holder? Push clutch pedal and hold down. Apply and then release brake pedal. Rear brakes should remain applied, and release as clutch pedal is released.

That's correct. My Champion takes very little incline for the hill holder to work.

[Skybolt]

Having only driven one car with a Hill Holder so I have a question.

Here's the back story. I bought a 62 Lark a few years back for parts. It was driving a registered so I presume everything was working. As I was moving it around, before I was happy about it's location in my garage, and before disassembly, I was backing it out and got to a point where I wanted it to roll backwards a few feet, this was on my sloped driveway. I was unaware that the car had a Hill Holder and I thought the car's brakes were sticking. After parking it in the garage and parting it out I found the Hill Holder. Mystery solved.

So, here's the question, from a few different angles. How does one get a car equipped with a Hill Holder to roll backwards? Does one place the car in neutral, release the clutch, and just use the brake as per normal? So, one can not just push the clutch to the floor and the car roll backwards if at any time during the process the brake was applied? I guess if a just applied the clutch at the point I wanted the car to roll backwards and only applied the brake at the point I wanted the car to stop it would indeed roll backwards.

My main concern is that I have the system and if I can understand the full possibilities and limitations I may, or may not, include it in the brake system when I next do some major brake work on my 4 speed car.

I have not had the occasion to need it as when I learnt to drive I had to perform a handbrake start with a manual transmission car, on a hill, to pass my drivers test. After that I learnt not need the park/emergency brake for many hill related maneuvers. Quick footwork is the key. I was also taught that during long intervals at lights and such that placing the transmission in neutral and releasing the clutch was better for the transmission and especially the throwout bearing. Not to mention the leg fatigue with holding down a heavy clutch. As I am not getting any younger I wonder about the pros and cons of the Hill Holder system. Anyone used one in a 4 speed car and the opinion?

Len

[karterfred88]

Strange, but when I had my 63 Hawk in 1966, I drove it for almost a year before I realized it had a hill holder. Once I discovered it, I loved it. If you are in traffic heading up a steep incline and have an idiot sitting on your rear bumper, you don't worry about rolling back into his pretty grille. I think it works pretty intuitively. Come to a stop on flat or nose downhill, you don't know its there. Stop at an uphill stop sign, remove your foot from the brake to the gas as you let up the clutch and away you go. If you park nose uphill start your car, put your foot on the brake as you release you parking brake, put it in reverse as you hit the clutch, it engages while you move the shifter, take your foot of the brake, start to engage the clutch, car rolls. When adjusted correctly the slightest release of the clutch pedal releases it, long before you notice it. Wish I had the old fashioned version on my 13 Mustang. They have tried to do the same thing through the antilock brake system, but it doesn't release immediately with the clutch pedal, it's set up with a timer of some sort, waits about 2 seconds then releases-whether you're ready or not, or you drag the brakes till the wheel sensor notes motion and releases them, annoying--some things don't get better with technology.

[Dwain G.]

Most of the family Studes had hill holders, but I remember the 'ol man had it disconnected on the '55 because at that time he was parallel parking on an uphill grade and the hill holder was giving him fits. Maybe the dealer did disconnect it or maybe they just readjusted it. The operating lever connected to the clutch pedal can be set wherever it works best for your particular need.

[Skip Lackie]

Strange, but when I had my 63 Hawk in 1966, I drove it for almost a year before I realized it had a hill holder. Once I discovered it, I loved it. If you are in traffic heading up a steep incline and have an idiot sitting on your rear bumper, you don't worry about rolling back into his pretty grille. I think it works pretty intuitively. Come to a stop on flat or nose downhill, you don't know its there. Stop at an uphill stop sign, remove your foot from the brake to the gas as you let up the clutch and away you go. If you park nose uphill start your car, put your foot on the brake as you release you parking brake, put it in reverse as you hit the clutch, it engages while you move the shifter, take your foot of the brake, start to engage the clutch, car rolls. When adjusted correctly the slightest release of the clutch pedal releases it, long before you notice it. Wish I had the old fashioned version on my 13 Mustang. They have tried to do the same thing through the antilock brake system, but it doesn't release immediately with the clutch pedal, it's set up with a timer of some sort, waits about 2 seconds then releases-whether you're ready or not, or you drag the brakes till the wheel sensor notes motion and releases them, annoying--some things don't get better with technology.

Yeah, I have had a number of Studes with Hill Holders (still have two) and they were/are a delight. My modern daily drivers have standard shift, and I really miss the HH. There is one intersection on my way home from work where a red light usually stops me on a steep hill. Most other drivers today assume everyone has an automatic, and snug themselves right up against my back bumper. Lacking a HH, I have chosen the geezer practice of using the emergency brake to hold me in place until I get the clutch engaged.

[wdills]

This car got a NOS hill holder when it was put back together. No goo in there that needed cleaning out. When I opened it up there were a lot of chunks of what appeared to be rubber debris. I am guessing the seal on the cage had petrified from age and then came apart when it got exercised a little.

[TWChamp]

My modern car has a lot of small black pieces also, but the brakes work good when the road salt hasn't rusted another steel line. I'm wondering if it isn't something to do with the cheap DOT 3 fluid mixing with moisture in the air? When I brought my 1950 Commander home from El Paso in 1970, it seems the brake fluid would turn to grease when it sat for several months.

[wdills]

Guess what, the "Hill Holder rebuild kit" didn't include the most important seal in the Hill Holder. That being the one in the ball cage. Is it possible to replace the seal in the end of the ball cage? If it can be replaced, where can I buy one?

[wdills]

I did a more extensive inspection this evening and I think I identified the problem with the operation of the hill holder. The rubber seal in the ball cage is definitely falling apart. There is actually a hole that goes from the side of the seal into the center passage that leads back to the master cylinder. So even when the ball rolls into position to block off the port, the fluid can still return to the MC through the hole in the seal.