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TwoBryans
06-10-2016, 12:46 PM
Thanks so much for taking the time to read my post. If it is more appropriate in a different section, please move it accordingly. Is anyone aware of anyone that offers any conversion parts for any engine swaps for these cars? Would like to change mine over to a more updated style engine(hope this does not offend anyone). For the most part, I am a purist type of guy, but for this particular car, I am thinking an updated swap. Would love your input and suggestions.

Packard8
06-10-2016, 01:07 PM
I'm not aware of any "bolt in kits", but any fabricator should be able to install a GM 350 crate engine & trans without much hassle. There is a lot of room there to accommodate the smaller GM engine. The Packard 352 & 374 V8's are great engines when a few modern updates are applied, mainly an upgraded oil pump. The weak point of the car was the Ultramatic trans, mostly due to lack of proper service and adjustment. There are trans adapters to mate modern GM trannies to the Packard V8. One member here, Jack Vines specializes in rebuilding Packard V8's to stock or higher levels for a reasonable price. You might want to consider keeping the upgraded Packard engine with a modern trans behind it.

TwoBryans
06-10-2016, 01:15 PM
Thanks so much for the response! I am trying to determine what to do with the car. The guy I bought it from said it belonged to a relative of his that stopped driving it due to health reasons and that the car ran and drove fine when it was parked about 4 years ago. However, I had a friend check it over and he says the engine is seized and he cannot get it to break loose and turn.

I was thinking it may be a more cost effective thing to convert the engine or engine and trans to something else. However, I do not want to bury myself in the car and just wanted to make the car a fun an comfortable driver. For me being old and fat, that would require getting it running and driving reliable, adding ac and upgrading the brakes in addition to just making sure the suspension, brakes and electrical would be reliable for a weekend toy. Here is a rendering a friend did of the car as it appears now with a few upgrades I wanted to do to it.

55217


I'm not aware of any "bolt in kits", but any fabricator should be able to install a GM 350 crate engine & trans without much hassle. There is a lot of room there to accommodate the smaller GM engine. The Packard 352 & 374 V8's are great engines when a few modern updates are applied, mainly an upgraded oil pump. The weak point of the car was the Ultramatic trans, mostly due to lack of proper service and adjustment. There are trans adapters to mate modern GM trannies to the Packard V8. One member here, Jack Vines specializes in rebuilding Packard V8's to stock or higher levels for a reasonable price. You might want to consider keeping the upgraded Packard engine with a modern trans behind it.

6hk71400
06-10-2016, 01:18 PM
There is a guy in San Diego that has information about a 440 mopar that fits well and looks like it should be there. If you would like I can see if I can find information on this swap. Nothing against the bow tie but you do need some beef to move all that metal.

Bob Miles
Tucson AZ
Home of 6 Volt Paradise

TwoBryans
06-10-2016, 01:21 PM
I am certainly open to all options. However, I would like to do something with enough power to get out of it's own way and realistic fuel economy. Maybe something LS based was my first thought, but like I said, I am open to other things.


There is a guy in San Diego that has information about a 440 mopar that fits well and looks like it should be there. If you would like I can see if I can find information on this swap. Nothing against the bow tie but you do need some beef to move all that metal.

Bob Miles
Tucson AZ
Home of 6 Volt Paradise

Packard8
06-10-2016, 01:25 PM
I agree that a Mopar 440 would look better than a Chebby "belly-button" engine and move the car better. But the big Packard engine looks just right to me. There are brake upgrades available (the Bendix Treadle Vac is known for catastrophic failures).

Lots of good info on upgrades here:

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/

TwoBryans
06-10-2016, 01:36 PM
Thanks so much! I really appreciate any and all insight. Would love to make some decisions and get moving on it so I can enjoy it!




I agree that a Mopar 440 would look better than a Chebby "belly-button" engine and move the car better. But the big Packard engine looks just right to me. There are brake upgrades available (the Bendix Treadle Vac is known for catastrophic failures).

Lots of good info on upgrades here:

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/

PackardV8
06-10-2016, 01:54 PM
Congrats in seeing the possibilities in the Packard. They're certainly rare and unique.


However, I do not want to bury myself in the car and just wanted to make the car a fun an comfortable driver. I was thinking it may be a more cost effective thing to convert the engine or engine and trans to something else. However, I do not want to bury myself in the car and just wanted to make the car a fun an comfortable driver. For me being old and fat, that would require getting it running and driving reliable, adding ac and upgrading the brakes in addition to just making sure the suspension, brakes and electrical would be reliable for a weekend toy.

The reality is an old fat guy who's going to have to pay a professional to upgrade the engine transmission, brakes and electrical is already "buried" in this sort of project and "cost-effective" is a non-operative term in building a custom car. From experience, decide if you love it enough to not count the cost and not to look back and not expect to ever get back more than 25%-50% of the sunk costs.

As to what engine to use, the Packard V8 is not the problem. Rebuilding it will certainly be less expensive than the cost of buying and/or rebuilding a later V8 and then paying for the conversion. Today, most agree an overdrive automatic is the way to go and swap kits are available, so actual transmission cost is a wash.

Should you decide to go for the engine swap, the Packard V8 is as long, tall and heavy as any passenger car OHV8. Literally anything will fit in the Packard engine bay. The only caveat is it's a rear sump oil pan, so that's a must. So look at later big block engines to which the overdrive came attached or will bolt in. The big block Fords, Chevys and Mopars were sometimes used in trucks after they were NLA in cars.

Again, welcome and have fun with your new toy.

jack vines

TwoBryans
06-10-2016, 01:58 PM
Much appreciated! I have loved them for years. Just never found one rough enough, but still nice enough to do something like this with it. Could not bring myself to do what I want to do to a really nice example.


Congrats in seeing the possibilities in the Packard. They're certainly rare and unique.



The reality is an old fat guy who's going to have to pay a professional to upgrade the engine transmission, brakes and electrical is "buried" in this sort of project. From experience, decide if you love it enough to not count the cost and not to look back and not expect to ever get back more than 25%-50% of the sunk costs.

As to what engine to use, the Packard V8 is as long, tall and heavy as any passenger car OHV8. Literally anything will fit in the Packard engine bay. The only caveat is it's a rear sump oil pan, so that's a must.

Today, most agree an overdrive automatic is the way to go, so look at later big block engines to which the overdrive came attached or will bolt in. The big block Fords, Chevys and Mopars were sometimes used in trucks after they were NLA in cars.

Just as a point of reference, compare the cost of new crate engines the the $3495 it costs to completely rebuild the Packard V8 with all new wear parts.

jack vines

karterfred88
06-10-2016, 03:08 PM
You say you don't want to bury yourself with this. Used engine, crate engine, rebuilt or used trans, new drive shaft, fab cut and modify new exhaust etc., etc., etc. Me I'd try to figure out why engine "seized", Pour ATF into every cylinder and let it sit a couple of days, replace the battery cables with new clean ones, new battery, leave the plugs out, try spinning again, refill cylinders. If, in fact, it was running before, and not stored in a river since, I'd bet it will "unstick" pretty easily. Doesn't mean it will run right, but maybe well enough to try it, then make a decision.

TwoBryans
06-10-2016, 05:01 PM
Well, actually, I do not believe the seller was as honest as he claimed to be. Rocker cover was pulled(just as a quick easy, but limited internal inspection) and engine is super clean inside. However, ATF and Marvel Mystery Oil have both been in he cylinders for a couple months and with a 3/4 inch breaker bar with a 5' pipe have intermittently been put on the crank pulley multiple times over those months and as recently as last week and it will not budge. Originally, I was hoping it was that simple. Unfortunately, it does not appear so. That is why I posted here because I doubt the original engine with whatever problem it has and the potential transmission problems that will eventually arise do not make it worth dealing with at this point as much as I would have liked to kept the original engine and trans.


You say you don't want to bury yourself with this. Used engine, crate engine, rebuilt or used trans, new drive shaft, fab cut and modify new exhaust etc., etc., etc. Me I'd try to figure out why engine "seized", Pour ATF into every cylinder and let it sit a couple of days, replace the battery cables with new clean ones, new battery, leave the plugs out, try spinning again, refill cylinders. If, in fact, it was running before, and not stored in a river since, I'd bet it will "unstick" pretty easily. Doesn't mean it will run right, but maybe well enough to try it, then make a decision.

SN-60
06-10-2016, 06:37 PM
Consider a 400 CI small block Chevrolet V8 of mid seventies vintage.....an extremely reliable, light, and 'torquey' engine, coupled to a GM TH 400 or 700R4 overdrive you'd end up with the car Packard should have built! :)

TwoBryans
06-10-2016, 06:52 PM
I really appreciate the input! I actually have a couple of those and have contemplated doing that, but felt that the engine compartment was so big that it would look like a miniblock(LOL!) rather than a small block whenever I opened the hood and those really don't get all that great fuel economy as some other options would.

Please keep those suggestions coming! Especially if anyone has any experience with or knowledge of anyone that offers mounts and other components that might make something more of a bolt-in situation. I have been an ASE Certified Master Technician most of my adult life, but have never been a good fabricator as much as I did have that talent.



Consider a 400 CI small block Chevrolet V8 of mid seventies vintage.....an extremely reliable, light, and 'torquey' engine, coupled to a GM TH 400 or 700R4 overdrive you'd end up with the car Packard should have built! :)

PackardV8
06-10-2016, 06:57 PM
Consider a 400 CI small block Chevrolet V8 of mid seventies vintage.....an extremely reliable, light, and 'torquey' engine, coupled to a GM TH 400 or 700R4 overdrive you'd end up with the car Packard should have built! :)

But there's the rest of the story; some of us remember after Packard ceased production, Chevrolet commissioned an engineering study group and assigned a project number to considering the acquisition of the Packard V8 design and tooling. This because they were of the opinion the SBC wasn't the engine they wanted hauling around their two-ton-plus cars. The "not-invented-here" mentality prevailed and Chevy spent several years debugging their own big block design.

jack vines

TwoBryans
06-10-2016, 06:58 PM
Interesting information! Thanks so much for sharing!


But there's the rest of the story; some of us remember after Packard ceased production, Chevrolet commissioned an engineering study group and assigned a project number to considering the acquisition of the Packard V8 design and tooling. This because they were of the opinion the SBC wasn't the engine they wanted hauling around their two-ton-plus cars. The "not-invented-here" mentality prevailed and Chevy spent several years debugging their own big block design.

jack vines

Packard8
06-10-2016, 07:23 PM
To me, at least 50% of the attraction of vintage cars are the vintage mechanicals. Excepting safety items (mainly brakes, tires and seat belts) and known weak points (like Ultramatics) I like to keep them "as delivered". When you go to a car show you'll see a plethora of GM SBC powered vintage cars from Jags, Rolls Royces to even Ferrari's. When I walk by an open hood and see an SBC I just yawn and keep walking. Now if I see a cross-ram Mopar or dual quad Caribbean or Caddy I'll stop, gawk and say "wow".

As mentioned, I think you could get buried deeper doing an engine swap than rebuilding the Packard engine. I tell ppl that if you are concerned with MPG and guaranteed reliability, buy a new Toyota with a 5 year warranty but that's just me.

TwoBryans
06-10-2016, 07:41 PM
I can certainly appreciate that opinion, but was hoping for reasonable power with economy and the Toyota just would not accomplish that part.




To me, at least 50% of the attraction of vintage cars are the vintage mechanicals. Excepting safety items (mainly brakes, tires and seat belts) and known weak points (like Ultramatics) I like to keep them "as delivered". When you go to a car show you'll see a plethora of GM SBC powered vintage cars from Jags, Rolls Royces to even Ferrari's. When I walk by an open hood and see an SBC I just yawn and keep walking. Now if I see a cross-ram Mopar or dual quad Caribbean or Caddy I'll stop, gawk and say "wow".

As mentioned, I think you could get buried deeper doing an engine swap than rebuilding the Packard engine. I tell ppl that if you are concerned with MPG and guaranteed reliability, buy a new Toyota with a 5 year warranty but that's just me.

PackardV8
06-10-2016, 08:09 PM
I can certainly appreciate that opinion, but was hoping for reasonable power with economy and the Toyota just would not accomplish that part.

Agree, Toyota exists in a parallel universe which doesn't compute with hobby cars. But then, economy is another of those non-operative terms when considering a hobby car. The cost of fuel is ant-sh*t in the final equation.

jack vines

TwoBryans
06-10-2016, 08:47 PM
I daily drive my cars. Even my "hobby" cars. So, to me, it matters. I would go really outside the box and go Cummins or Duramax, but those would be too far outside the financial criteria I am looking for for this project. This is a project I am trying to keep within a reasonable budget, but still accomplish multiple goals.

QUOTE=PackardV8;995360]Agree, Toyota exists in a parallel universe which doesn't compute with hobby cars. But then, economy is another of those non-operative terms when considering a hobby car. The cost of fuel is ant-sh*t in the final equation.

jack vines[/QUOTE]

jclary
06-10-2016, 09:26 PM
I daily drive my cars. Even my "hobby" cars. So, to me, it matters. I would go really outside the box and go Cummins or Duramax, but those would be too far outside the financial criteria I am looking for for this project. This is a project I am trying to keep within a reasonable budget, but still accomplish multiple goals.

QUOTE=PackardV8;995360]Agree, Toyota exists in a parallel universe which doesn't compute with hobby cars. But then, economy is another of those non-operative terms when considering a hobby car. The cost of fuel is ant-sh*t in the final equation.

jack vines[/QUOTE]

Every day, I INTEND to drive my my cars, but lately, I have trouble finding the time to drive them weekly.:QQ: As for your project, I have no "Hill to die on" kind of suggestion. However, I'm enjoying the back and forth discussion of this thread. As for the small block Chevy, it has acquired a huge yawn factor because of seeing them powering everything from motorized bar stools to motorcycles.:rolleyes:

What ever you do, make it yours and make it fun.:) It will be good if someone provides information valuable to you, but, it is your project, and only you know what resources you can apply to it. Anybody can make elaborate suggestions as long as they don't have to spend the money.;) However, even if you put a common engine in the thing...it is still a '56 Packard Clipper...that alone is pretty cool!:!:

My thinking is, if you want modern economy, added to the cool factor, regardless of who's power plant you choose, it should come from a vehicle of comparable weight, and include all the sensors, computer controls, fuel delivery system, including the entire drive train/gear ratio of the donor vehicle. That way, the power plant don't know if it is hauling a Crown Vic, Dodge Ram, STS, Suburban, Yukon, or...a PACKARD!:):!::)

While I appreciate "economy" of operation as good as anyone, now that I'm over 70, I'll spring for "reliable," and "durable," over all else, and hope for "economy within reason.":) Whatever you do, take pictures and share it with us. Also, remember not to allow any of the rest of us to have enough importance in (your world) to upset you.:( None of us deserve that much influence.;)

55 56 PREZ 4D
06-11-2016, 11:20 AM
"...I would like to change mine over to a more updated style engine..."
"I was thinking it may be a more cost effective thing to convert the engine or engine and trans to something else."
"...maybe something LS based was my first thought..."
"...could not bring myself to do what I want to do to a really nice example..."
"...I doubt the original engine with whatever problems it has and the potential transmission problems that will eventually arise do not make it worth dealing with..."
"...I actually have a couple of those [big block chevy] and have contemplated doing that..."

Studeous
06-11-2016, 12:13 PM
Stuff in a STUDEBAKER V8! That'll confuse em.

JoeHall
06-11-2016, 01:58 PM
Having rebuilt over half dozen Packard V8s, and driven them a collective total of 225,000+ miles and counting (all in 56Js), I offer the following, biased opinion: Rebuilt Packard V8s are good for 100,000 miles, but are finicky. There are usually some issues that need revisited and, "ironed out" after rebuild.

There are several upgrades and interchanges now, but often bring other problems, i.e. the Olds oil pump mod: it will instantly pump twice the oil volume and pressure. But since the motor was not designed for that pump, oil now pours/sprays from rockers it once dripped slooowly from. The result: oil gets past the OEM valve stem seals, and even the later metal baffles, and gets into the combustion chamber, causing lots of related maladies. So kinda like medication, you need to treat the "side effects" of the improved pump.

Several other examples, but best advice is to buy a long block from Jack Vines. Dollar-wise, you'll be about even. Further, you will not have to climb a long, steep learning curve on the motor's finicky nature. Jack has already done that over the decades.

You might also wanna lurk on the Packard web site, with the V8 kids there. The only Packard V8 in Studebaker was the 4071 Golden Hawks of 1956. So there's not as much first hand knowledge here as there.

SN-60
06-11-2016, 02:21 PM
Being a mechanic all my life, if I owned this car, I'd probably do this:....If it's a really nice Clipper, I'd overhaul its original engine, paying heed to what Joe Hall just said.

However, if I really wanted this Clipper to be my 'everyday driver', the 'Twin-Ultra' would HAVE to go! :)

JoeHall
06-11-2016, 02:39 PM
Being a mechanic all my life, if I owned this car, I'd probably do this:....If it's a really nice Clipper, I'd overhaul its original engine, paying heed to what Joe Hall just said.

However, if I really wanted this Clipper to be my 'everyday driver', the 'Twin-Ultra' would HAVE to go! :)

Ed,
I agree on the Ultra, but there may be exceptions. In the late 80s when living in SoCal, I restored a 56J, rebuilt and kept the Ultra in it. I rebuilt it under the tutelage of an elderly Packard expert named, John Brian. In his 80s, he still worked 5 1/2 days per week at his Packard (only) repair shop. He answered his phone, "Brian's Packard Service, John speaking, how may I help you?"

I rebuilt that Ultra with every upgrade John had designed over the decades, and a few of my own, i.e. a BMW motorcycle seal in the case. Long story short, that car is still on the road, though driven sparingly by its owner of the past 25 years. Per our last phon-con a couple of months ago, the Ultra is still working perfectly!

I'd say it now has around 50,000 on that rebuild.
However, John Brian himself used to say about the Ultras, "they need going through about every 50,000 miles", so maybe that one is coming due. :)

karterfred88
06-11-2016, 03:06 PM
Well now that I know you've tried to save then power train, my suggestion would be to replace it with a MOPAR new hemi late model Charger, 300, Ram truck engine/trans assembly. They will fill the engine compartment, have rear sumps and have more than enough power-the cars they are in are far from lightweights! That could still give you reasonable mileage with the right rear, not care about 10% alcohol gas and make a pretty nice cruiser.

Mikado282
06-11-2016, 04:45 PM
Stuff in a STUDEBAKER V8! That'll confuse em.

Stuff in one of the Packard engines with a GM hydramatic out of a Nash. That will confuse them even more.

Endl98
06-11-2016, 05:14 PM
I say a LS swap . its becoming the trend. They can be had cheap. There are quite a few ecu options, everything from stock to fancy aftermarket to carb options. you can make them look very different . and you can get 400 hp lots of torq and 20 mpg easy. you only need 7 wires a frame rail pump , corvette fuel filter, for the regulator and return line for F.I.

TwoBryans
06-12-2016, 10:20 AM
No plans to get upset over any response. If I was, I would have never initiated the thread. I am always interested in others thoughts, even if, at the end of the day, I will still do what I want. Just hoping to gain some knowledge from others who have more experience with these particular cars than I do. I appreciate everyone's input.

Every day, I INTEND to drive my my cars, but lately, I have trouble finding the time to drive them weekly.:QQ: As for your project, I have no "Hill to die on" kind of suggestion. However, I'm enjoying the back and forth discussion of this thread. As for the small block Chevy, it has acquired a huge yawn factor because of seeing them powering everything from motorized bar stools to motorcycles.:rolleyes:

What ever you do, make it yours and make it fun.:) It will be good if someone provides information valuable to you, but, it is your project, and only you know what resources you can apply to it. Anybody can make elaborate suggestions as long as they don't have to spend the money.;) However, even if you put a common engine in the thing...it is still a '56 Packard Clipper...that alone is pretty cool!:!:

My thinking is, if you want modern economy, added to the cool factor, regardless of who's power plant you choose, it should come from a vehicle of comparable weight, and include all the sensors, computer controls, fuel delivery system, including the entire drive train/gear ratio of the donor vehicle. That way, the power plant don't know if it is hauling a Crown Vic, Dodge Ram, STS, Suburban, Yukon, or...a PACKARD!:):!::)

While I appreciate "economy" of operation as good as anyone, now that I'm over 70, I'll spring for "reliable," and "durable," over all else, and hope for "economy within reason.":) Whatever you do, take pictures and share it with us. Also, remember not to allow any of the rest of us to have enough importance in (your world) to upset you.:( None of us deserve that much influence.;)[/QUOTE]

TwoBryans
06-12-2016, 10:24 AM
Not sure I understand your post. Please elaborate.


"...I would like to change mine over to a more updated style engine..."
"I was thinking it may be a more cost effective thing to convert the engine or engine and trans to something else."
"...maybe something LS based was my first thought..."
"...could not bring myself to do what I want to do to a really nice example..."
"...I doubt the original engine with whatever problems it has and the potential transmission problems that will eventually arise do not make it worth dealing with..."
"...I actually have a couple of those [big block chevy] and have contemplated doing that..."

TwoBryans
06-12-2016, 10:25 AM
Might be a good idea in the end. :D


Stuff in a STUDEBAKER V8! That'll confuse em.

TwoBryans
06-12-2016, 10:27 AM
Interesting observation, but then I would still have the potential transmission issues to deal with, but it would certainly be a time saver.


Having rebuilt over half dozen Packard V8s, and driven them a collective total of 225,000+ miles and counting (all in 56Js), I offer the following, biased opinion: Rebuilt Packard V8s are good for 100,000 miles, but are finicky. There are usually some issues that need revisited and, "ironed out" after rebuild.

There are several upgrades and interchanges now, but often bring other problems, i.e. the Olds oil pump mod: it will instantly pump twice the oil volume and pressure. But since the motor was not designed for that pump, oil now pours/sprays from rockers it once dripped slooowly from. The result: oil gets past the OEM valve stem seals, and even the later metal baffles, and gets into the combustion chamber, causing lots of related maladies. So kinda like medication, you need to treat the "side effects" of the improved pump.

Several other examples, but best advice is to buy a long block from Jack Vines. Dollar-wise, you'll be about even. Further, you will not have to climb a long, steep learning curve on the motor's finicky nature. Jack has already done that over the decades.

You might also wanna lurk on the Packard web site, with the V8 kids there. The only Packard V8 in Studebaker was the 4071 Golden Hawks of 1956. So there's not as much first hand knowledge here as there.

TwoBryans
06-12-2016, 10:29 AM
While it is nowhere near a junkyard piece, it is far from what I would call a "nice" car. In my opinion, it is just a car with lots of potential that is in a condition where you would not really hurt the value by doing something outside the ordinary with it.


Being a mechanic all my life, if I owned this car, I'd probably do this:....If it's a really nice Clipper, I'd overhaul its original engine, paying heed to what Joe Hall just said.

However, if I really wanted this Clipper to be my 'everyday driver', the 'Twin-Ultra' would HAVE to go! :)

TwoBryans
06-12-2016, 10:32 AM
Certainly willing to consider that option if I knew where to buy a donor car at a reasonable price. That is actually why I was leaning in the LS based direction as it seems that is the most cost effective of the more modern drivelines that has parts more readily available based on research I have done so far.


Well now that I know you've tried to save then power train, my suggestion would be to replace it with a MOPAR new hemi late model Charger, 300, Ram truck engine/trans assembly. They will fill the engine compartment, have rear sumps and have more than enough power-the cars they are in are far from lightweights! That could still give you reasonable mileage with the right rear, not care about 10% alcohol gas and make a pretty nice cruiser.

- - - Updated - - -

That is an option worth consideration as well.


Stuff in one of the Packard engines with a GM hydramatic out of a Nash. That will confuse them even more.

TwoBryans
06-12-2016, 10:36 AM
All very good points and exactly why that option was at the top of my list prior to initiating this thread. Still leaning that direction, but there are certainly some other appealing options that have been brought up.




I say a LS swap . its becoming the trend. They can be had cheap. There are quite a few ecu options, everything from stock to fancy aftermarket to carb options. you can make them look very different . and you can get 400 hp lots of torq and 20 mpg easy. you only need 7 wires a frame rail pump , corvette fuel filter, for the regulator and return line for F.I.

JoeHall
06-12-2016, 12:02 PM
Thinking out of the box, how about the entire drive train from a, early 1990s Volvo 240, front to rear end? They are rear wheel drive, about same width as a Stude, but offset wheels could be mated to your Packard. Those bad boys are bullet proof, and enough power to cruise at illegal speeds, all day long. Could probably also swap over the excellent climate control system to the Packard.

sweetolbob
06-12-2016, 12:36 PM
Thinking out of the box, how about the entire drive train from a, early 1990s Volvo 240, front to rear end? They are rear wheel drive, about same width as a Stude, but offset wheels could be mated to your Packard. Those bad boys are bullet proof, and enough power to cruise at illegal speeds, all day long. Could probably also swap over the excellent climate control system to the Packard.

Not a bad idea as they are pretty bulletproof. The only question I would pose is can you get a reprogrammed ECM/Chip for them. The 90's GM setup's worked well because there is a fair number of folks that can supply a reprogrammed chip to match your needs.

I'm a fan of the newer LS setup's because they are later technology and there is a tremendous community of support built up to supply technology and parts to make them work.

About two years ago at the Gilmore Car Show I had a long discussion with the owner of two matching 57 Chevy's, one hardtop/one vert. Both had LS3's in them. I asked how difficult were the swaps? He said everything was available for the conversion and the ECM reprogramming locally was $85/ECM. Just be careful how new you go if you chose to go LS. There is a point where the ECM's become locked and you need an earlier ECM for reprogramming. Ford is a few years back, FCA is 2015 but I don't know about GM.

55 56 PREZ 4D
06-12-2016, 02:47 PM
"...I would like to change mine over to a more updated style engine..."
"I was thinking it may be a more cost effective thing to convert the engine or engine and trans to something else."
"...maybe something LS based was my first thought..."
"...could not bring myself to do what I want to do to a really nice example..."
"...I doubt the original engine with whatever problems it has and the potential transmission problems that will eventually arise do not make it worth dealing with..."
"...I actually have a couple of those [big block chevy] and have contemplated doing that..."

"I am always interested in others thoughts, even if, at the end of the day, I will still do what I want."
Well..... From your comments.....Decisions, decisions, What should I do, HMMMM.

SN-60
06-12-2016, 04:24 PM
"I am always interested in others thoughts, even if, at the end of the day, I will still do what I want."
Well..... From your comments.....Decisions, decisions, What should I do, HMMMM.

I think this thread of 'TwoBryans' is interesting, and that his questions are valid ones...... Also, he answers back very politely......Why do you feel the need to pick on him? :mad:

Treblig
06-12-2016, 04:59 PM
Yes, but how do you know which "bryan" you're responding to???:confused::lol::!!:

Sorry, I couldn't resist!!

Treblig

SN-60
06-12-2016, 05:29 PM
Yes, but how do you know which "bryan" you're responding to???:confused::lol::!!:

Sorry, I couldn't resist!!

Treblig



Always good to interject a bit of humor! :)

karterfred88
06-12-2016, 09:45 PM
While the LS is a great way to go-it may not be inexpensive when adding trans etc. I spotted this on E-Pray sounds like a cheap 372 HP with computer and trans.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-DODGE-CHALLENGER-R-T-5-7-L-HEMI-ENGINE-MOTOR-W5A580-TRANSMISSION-LIFTOUT-/321970247389

Dan White
06-13-2016, 05:29 AM
Although I enjoy reading these engine swap threads, asking a forum (any forum and I am on several) what would be a good swap for the original drive train ends up with tons of opinions and suggestions, few from anyone that has actually done a swap of any kind, and secondly probably just a few if any that have done the same swap you are asking about. Personally before going off in a direction that may end of with a stalled project and another Craigslist or ebay "project started, my loss is your gain" (not saying yours will be but it seems that there are scads of these every time I do a search). Think carefully.

1) Is this a car you want to really spend your time and money for the next X months, or years on?

2) If the answer to one is #1 is NO, sell it and move on. A few years ago I bought a '79 Jeep J20 pickup. I thought they were cool, still do. It had some rust, as must of them do, but after driving it a while I was determined to restore it. Picked up all the parts to do it, even an AC unit, but in the end I sold it and took a substantial loss. Looking at my other projects, work, family etc. it was clear this was a project that would not happen for a long time if ever.

3) IF the answer is yes to #1, then how much $$ do you have to spend, not what would you like to spend. Note that every one of these projects costs more than you think it will! Engine swaps can eat up lots of time and money, not to mention frustration when things hit a snag or serious road blocks. A friend wanted me to pull the old Buick straight 8 from my '40 Buick and put in a SBC. Although it was very tempting to get the car on the road, the level of effort was not worth it and it is now back on the road with its original drive train.

4) I read earlier you want to have a more updated style engine? Well the Packard V8 is an OHV V8 just like most of the ones that have been mentioned in this thread. Unless you are going to some sort of OHC engine, like some of the newer Ford or Cadillac V8s then you are not putting in a newer style engine. Adding all the new computer controlled systems may add more misery and complication not to mention $$ to your project. Keeping it simple may be a good idea, that is your choice.

5) If you really want to not be like 80% of what I see at hot rod and car shows (SBC or GM crate, belly button engines) then going with something out of the norm would be more interesting to those walking by: Big Block Mopar (noted earlier), big block Cad, plenty of those in bone yards, big block Buicks, Olds (the 455s were real stump pullers and great engines), etc. All can be had with good trans and carb setups, and there are still a lot of aftermarket cool parts you can jazz them up with, can you say "Dual Quads"!!!

6) As a suggestion, you might want to pull your Packard engine and see what is really wrong with it. If does not have any broken parts inside, like rods or crank, it may be an easier fix than you think The GM trans adapters and an OD trans and your original engine freshened up will be cheaper and much faster than a full blown whatever engine swap. Even picking up a good but used running Packard V8 might be a cheaper option. I am sure that Jack Vines would be more than happy to help you out with finding the Packard V8 parts you need.'

7) Dreaming is great and i have done plenty with my cars over the years, but it really all boils down to money and time. Your level of interest is highest when you are dreaming. Your car, your money, your time. Always remember you will not recoup whatever $$$ you put into this project. Only you will value what you have when you are done, the next owner will not appreciate it as much are you will, guaranteed.

StudebakerGene
06-13-2016, 11:36 AM
I read all the discussions and hear all the statements that whatever you do you will never get back all the money you put in it and Blah, Blah, Blah. Here's my two cents worth. Never build a car that you know you are going to loose money on...period, unless it has a great "sentimental" value, i.e. (your parents car, siblings car.) I don't understand someone throwing thousands and thousands of dollars into some 4 door, or other non collectible vehicle and expecting to get Barrett Jackson prices. I don't care if you put a Toyota Camry engine in it, If it's done right and it's a car that appeals to the 95% range of people, you will get your money back, Studebaker or not. I haven't sold a car in the last twenty years that I didn't make a profit on, but then again I don't build cars that don't appeal to the 95% range and that's the key! It's your car, put whatever you desire in it, just remember when and if you go to sell it, (should it be all original, should it have upgraded items, is it a 95% car?) or better yet, if it's a Caribbean convertible let that be your guide, it's worked for me flawlessly!

JoeHall
06-13-2016, 08:22 PM
I read all the discussions and hear all the statements that whatever you do you will never get back all the money you put in it and Blah, Blah, Blah. Here's my two cents worth. Never build a car that you know you are going to loose money on...period, unless it has a great "sentimental" value, i.e. (your parents car, siblings car.) I don't understand someone throwing thousands and thousands of dollars into some 4 door, or other non collectible vehicle and expecting to get Barrett Jackson prices. I don't care if you put a Toyota Camry engine in it, If it's done right and it's a car that appeals to the 95% range of people, you will get your money back, Studebaker or not. I haven't sold a car in the last twenty years that I didn't make a profit on, but then again I don't build cars that don't appeal to the 95% range and that's the key! It's your car, put whatever you desire in it, just remember when and if you go to sell it, (should it be all original, should it have upgraded items, is it a 95% car?) or better yet, if it's a Caribbean convertible let that be your guide, it's worked for me flawlessly!

Well now is a fine time to find this out, about 30 years too late. I have owned about 25 Studes, and have never made a nickel off one. But then, I never looked at any of them as an investment, just drive the snot out of them. I tend to hold onto the ones I really like, e.g. the 62GT, now over 30 years and 300,000 miles, or the 56J, now 30 years and over 160,000 miles.
About the only folks I know who make money off Studes are self-called, "flippers". I have nothing against them, just cannot identify in any way, shape or form. I would not buy a car from a flipper though.

Mrs K Corbin
06-14-2016, 06:59 AM
+1 on what karterfred said..... Add the same amount of Acetone (finger-nail polish) to the cylinders as the ATF...... essentially a 50/50 mix of Acetone and ATF and that'd do the trick.... once it's unstuck, make sure you change the oil before you start it...




You say you don't want to bury yourself with this. Used engine, crate engine, rebuilt or used trans, new drive shaft, fab cut and modify new exhaust etc., etc., etc. Me I'd try to figure out why engine "seized", Pour ATF into every cylinder and let it sit a couple of days, replace the battery cables with new clean ones, new battery, leave the plugs out, try spinning again, refill cylinders. If, in fact, it was running before, and not stored in a river since, I'd bet it will "unstick" pretty easily. Doesn't mean it will run right, but maybe well enough to try it, then make a decision.

Skip Lackie
06-14-2016, 07:11 AM
Well now is a fine time to find this out, about 30 years too late. I have owned about 25 Studes, and have never made a nickel off one. But then, I never looked at any of them as an investment, just drive the snot out of them. I tend to hold onto the ones I really like, e.g. the 62GT, now over 30 years and 300,000 miles, or the 56J, now 30 years and over 160,000 miles.
About the only folks I know who make money off Studes are self-called, "flippers". I have nothing against them, just cannot identify in any way, shape or form. I would not buy a car from a flipper though.

I'm with Joe on this, except it's 40 years too late for me. I buy the cars I like, restore/fix them, and keep them essentially forever. I am now (finally) restoring a 3R6 pickup that I have owned and driven for 43 years. Although I'm doing a lot of the work myself, the paint and body work was done by professionals and will probably cost more than the truck will be worth. If you add in the cost of the parts, I will forever be upside down on the value. (And that assumes my labor was free.) My heirs will be the ones to find out -- and they won't care.

Not all of us get into this hobby for the same reasons, and there are really no universal rules that apply to all people and situations. I have occasionally sold a vehicle, but usually to make room for another one, so making a profit is pretty far down the priority list. "Buy high, sell low".

Dan White
06-14-2016, 08:41 AM
I stand by my previous post. If I only played with cars and trucks that I would make money on I probably would not have any. I do this for the fun of it, not to make money. However that being said you need to go into any of these with your eyes wide open and decide how much money you have to spend and figure it will be more than that in the end.

StudebakerGene
06-14-2016, 11:35 AM
First and foremost I'm a business oriented individual, I buy cars because I know I'll only have them for awhile. I'm not a "Flipper" I usually find something unique, (yeah, I usually buy them from you guys that don't mind losing money.) It also helps if you can do most of the work yourself (I do.) I enhance them either by restoring them back to original (I don't do this much anymore,) or upgrading them to be more cross-country type vehicles. I don't own anything I can't get in and drive, anywhere! After I have upgraded said vehicle, I usually don't have to wait long before someone is trying to buy it, (remember the 95% rule.) It pays to really visualize what the vehicle will be after improvements, this will actually be the recipe for whom you will market it too, and when you decide, everybody tastes are different, which is readily apparent if you surf this site much. I enjoy what I'm working on always, or I ain't working on it, which makes it a lot easier to enjoy and while I'm not married to any of my vehicles, they are all of too much importance to take a loss on--- no way

Buzzard
06-14-2016, 01:25 PM
TwoBryans,
I appreciate what you are trying to accomplish. The reality of late LS motors, complicated injection, computers, sensors, fuel systems etc. really spirals the costs. I know as I recently did a conversion into a stock 1951 Oldsmobile 88.
If it were mine, (and I did this on my wife's 83 Cadillac Sedan de Ville) I would source a good running early 70's Oldsmobile 455 and simply freshen it up. Use a Performer Air Gap intake and mild camshaft from Mondello and you'll be suitably impressed. Hooker Super Comp Headers work great and aren't that difficult to install. You'll get almost 500 lbs of torque which is what that very big, very heavy car will appreciate for driveabilty. And for fun you'll still have about 350+ horsepower. For transmission I used a heavily modified GM 2004R 4 speed automatic with Grand National torque converter. It works great and we still get over 20 mpg! Transmissions are available from Jegs or Summit for approx $2000.00. The motor will only have HEI for electronics and will "look right" in that big of an engine compartment.
What I usually do is find a full size Oldsmobile for which most people establish very little value, hence the good running motor for cheap.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Bill

karterfred88
06-14-2016, 02:59 PM
I know this probably doesn't apply, but having just read another thread where the "engine was stuck", it turned out that the starter bendix was jammed into the flywheel. Have you tried breaking it loose with the starter removed? Your description of the top end being clean really makes me scratch my head as to why it won't break loose.