Engine: 55 Commander Engine Won't Turn Over

[jhicban]

Hello all!

After installing a brand new 6V battery and changing the gasoline out, the engine will not turn over (has been sitting for 3 years).

A few things I noticed:

1. radiator fan spins, but engine wont crank over (to me, it sounds like there is not enough power in the brand new battery to get the starter motor going, but I am no mechanic)
2. I was thinking maybe there is a electrical problem as the headlights seem very dim, and the wiper blades rotate very slowly. (the previous owner installed an electronic fuel pump so there are "newer" wires in the engine bay)
3. previous owner had the black battery cable grounded to the engine block, and the red cable sent to what I think is the starter solenoid. I have read on this forum that this is a positive ground system and that this should be the opposite. I also spoke to Bud at the La Palma meet, and he suggested taking the black cable straight to the starter for a more direct current flow.

Again, bear with me as I am not at all a mechanic, but am hoping to learn with this project.

Also, is there a way to hand crank this engine (original 289 V8) without pulling the entire engine out? The previous owner stated the engine was running 3 years ago, but I want to make sure it hasn't seized up on us over this time period (it has been garaged the whole time)

[55 56 PREZ 4D]

Since the engine had sat for 3 yrs, you need to get oil pressure built up or damage may occur from attempting to start it.
So having problems turning the engine may have been a good thing.
"the fan spins"
Then the engine IS turning over [slowly]. It is not seized.
Do you mean that the engine does not start ?
Was the new battery fully charged ?
From factory the car was positive ground, so the cable from the + terminal of battery goes to a starter mounting bolt.
Cable from the - terminal to the solenoid, then solenoid to the brass connection at top of starter.
The connections need to be clean bright and shiny. The cables need to be large enough, about the diameter of a sharpie marker or bigger.
That would be 1/0 or 2/0, correct size for a 6 volt system.
Your existing cables may be corroded inside the insulation. New cables are available and inexpensive. Check at a good parts house or at a "Tractor Supply".
Take your old cables in to get the correct length and connectors.
Get the engine to turn over quickly, then start looking for other problems [if any].
Check back here for help with the oil pressure.

[jhicban]

Hi 55 56 Prez 4D... thank you for the quick response (again)

You are definitely sending me down the right path, as I called and spoke to the guys at Studebaker Parts and Service in Long Beach, and they quickly hammered me for even trying to start the engine in the way that I am. He said that I should "build the oil" pressure up before I try and start it. (not quite sure on how to do this yet)

The battery was fully charged when I purchased it from AutoZone.

The following pictures show the set up the previous owner had, which I just kept the same after installing a new battery.


I will put the car on jack stands tomorrow, so i can get under and access the starter motor. Any advice on how to build the oil pressure?

We (my 3yr old son and I), are on the 2nd week of this project and he'd much rather play with the bullet-nose Hot Wheel I got him at the La Palma meet.

[Dan Timberlake]

First I'd buy a cheap digital multimeter.
Then I'd measure the voltage right at the battery terminals ( not the battery cable terminals ) with the key off, and then while cranking.
If the voltage is less than 6.3 or so at rest, and drops to 4.8 or less when cranking, then the battery is not fully charged.

If the battery voltage stays high while cranking, I'd measure the "voltage drop" at various points in the positive and ground circuits while cranking.
More than 0.2 volt or so while cranking indicates a problem with a connection or a cable. Proper "voltage drop" testing in steps along each circuit will make it crystal clear what component(s) or connection(s) need cleaning or even replacement.

Once I had those tests complete the findings would determine what the next step should be.

[karterfred88]

Hi 55 56 Prez 4D... thank you for the quick response (again)

You are definitely sending me down the right path, as I called and spoke to the guys at Studebaker Parts and Service in Long Beach, and they quickly hammered me for even trying to start the engine in the way that I am. He said that I should "build the oil" pressure up before I try and start it. (not quite sure on how to do this yet)

The battery was fully charged when I purchased it from AutoZone.

The following pictures show the set up the previous owner had, which I just kept the same after installing a new battery.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]54918[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]54919[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]54920[/ATTACH]

I will put the car on jack stands tomorrow, so i can get under and access the starter motor. Any advice on how to build the oil pressure?

We (my 3yr old son and I), are on the 2nd week of this project and he'd much rather play with the bullet-nose Hot Wheel I got him at the La Palma meet.

Looking at your photos-can't tell on battery which is positive and negative. Neither cable is "fat" enough for a 6 volt system--the ground? is 2 need to go one more or 2 more, The positive (if that is hooked to the + post on the battery) ground wire is unduly long and adds resistance. Better to go with a 00 cable from the "+" battery directly the starter mounting bolt for a ground. Then increase the red ( negative) to a 00 or 1 gauge cleaning all the connections well, and retry it. To pre-lube the engine correctly, will require removing the distributor, carefully marking the rotor and housing positions before removal, and marking it when it stops rotating due to the cam gear, so it will be easy to reinstall. You need a long heavy duty screwdriver with a blade that approximates the tip on the oil pump drive hanging off the bottom of the now removed distributor. Get rid of the handle and chuck it in a reversible drill. With the blade engaged with the slot in the oil pump way down the distributor hole, running the drill so it turns counterclockwise while looking from above and down the trigger end will drive the oil pump and circulate oil to the "dry" areas. Run it till you see some pressure reading on the gauge. Putting the distributor back might be a little more challenging. Hold the distributor so that it is in the same relation it was in when you started (take some pictures) Line up the rotor to the mark you made on the housing when it stopped rotating as you pulled it up and out. Insert the bottom of the distributor back in and allow the rotor to twist as the gears engage and it drops back in. If it stops dropping before it's in all the way in pull it back out and note the position of the pump drive tang, put you screwdriver back in and try to approximate the angle and retry-if you get close it will fall in. tighten it ll back down. Marking everything before you pull it out is key-or else you'll be trying to get the timing right-If it was close when it ran before, it should still be close after. As others will tell you-get a parts and a repair manual fro a vendor they are VERY useful and detailed.

[StudeRich]

What Bill Oliver or one of his employees At Studebaker Parts & Service was talking about is putting a Distributor "Dummy Shaft" into the Engine Oil Pump after removing the Dist. (it's like a screwdriver SLOT) and then turning it with a Reversible AC powered Electric Drill COUNTERCLOCKWISE until you have visible flow out of the Rocker Arms looking into one Cyl. Head with the Rocker Cover removed or at least a good amount; 40 P.S.I. or more on the Oil Pressure Gauge.

Also check that the Rubber Flex Hose from the Rear of the Right side (Passenger) Cylinder Head is good, (not cracked and leaking) and connected to the Copper line across the firewall going to the Gauge.

You can make one of these shafts from an Old Distributor or a 12 Inch Drill extension, ground on the end to a blade like a slotted screwdriver.

Soaking each Cylinder with Marvel Mystery Oil, ATF Fluid or other Penetrating, light Oil will help to loosen and prevent damage to a long Parked Engine.

[55 56 PREZ 4D]

That black cable is an "AWG #2" You need "AWG 1/0".
Move that to a starter mounting bolt. Get cables only as long as need be,
Is that a + sign at the red cable ? That should go to ground. - to the solenoid.
The red cable is far too small. Check the cable from the solenoid to the starter also. Again "AWG 1/0" or bigger.
For that distributor. Remove the distributor cap, leave the wires in place, just prop it out of the way.
Leave the rotor cap in place. Mark the location of the rotor tip on the body of the distributor.
Also mark the position of the distributor where it mounts at the block.
When you lift the distributor up the rotor will turn. Mark its new location. Note the position of the oil pump slot.
Change the oil before you do this next step.
You may have to spin the oil pump a while to get pressure.
After you get pressure, move the slot back to the same location.
Insert the distributor, eyeball and line up the mark on the block, push it straight down. If everything was correct it and the rotor will be back in place.

[Tom Bredehoft]

What the guys above are trying to say about your cables, they are perfectly good for 12 volts, but 'way too small for 6 volt. They won't carry enough "juice" to turn the engine over and start it too.

[oilnsteel]

An outfit called "Custom Battery Cables" has made some top quality battery cables for me. They are in AZ.

[TWChamp]

if the last time the engine ran, it wasn't long enough to thoroughly warm the oil and block, then you can bet it is locked up from condensation.
I learned that the hard way back in 1976 when I started my 1963 Lark VI and my 1929 Chevy Coach and ran each for only 5 to 10 minutes.
6 months later I went to start them and they were both locked solid.

[rstrasser]

Jhicban;
Having too small battery cables and whether the car is positive or negative ground does not matter. With a fully charged battery the engine should try to turn.
First you need to see if you can turn the engine.
If the fan belt is on and tight; pull o n the fan and see if the crank pulley turns a little
No luck? put the car in high gear (if a standard) and see if you can rock the car and make the engine turn a little.
Still no luck; drop the starter and see if you can turn the flywheel.
Ron

[altair]

I need some clarification, did the 55 Commander have a 289? From what I have read the 55 President had a 259, Commander 224, Golden Hawk 352 (Packard), Sky Hawk 289. The text I have read indicates 56 Commander top of the line model had a 289 and the smaller version was a 259.

From what I understand, 1955 was the year they changed to 12 volts. The car in the post should therefore be 12 volts if it is a 55 and the engine should be 224. Confirm the year of the car, and confirm the correct engine that it came with and confirm the factory voltage. Maby just maby the engine has a 12 volt starter. That may explain the accessories running at half speed.

[gordr]

I need some clarification, did the 55 Commander have a 289? From what I have read the 55 President had a 259, Commander 224, Golden Hawk 352 (Packard), Sky Hawk 289. The text I have read indicates 56 Commander top of the line model had a 289 and the smaller version was a 259.

From what I understand, 1955 was the year they changed to 12 volts. The car in the post should therefore be 12 volts if it is a 55 and the engine should be 224. Confirm the year of the car, and confirm the correct engine that it came with and confirm the factory voltage. Maby just maby the engine has a 12 volt starter. That may explain the accessories running at half speed.

Yes, it's possible that a previous owner converted the car to 12 volts, and switched to positive ground at that time. I note the starter solenoid has four terminals, which is typical for the 12 volt ones. But if the car was converted to 12 volts, it should have had that 4th terminal connected to bypass the ignition ballast resistor, although there are 12 volt coils that use no ballast resistor (e.g. Volkswagen). A '55 Commander would have had a 224 engine, with six-volt electrics, for sure.

Look at the metal tags on the starter and generator, if present. Usually, but not always, 12 volt units had red background tags, and six volt had black, and the voltage might be printed on the tag.

If you don't want to prelube the engine by way of driving the oil pump with a drill, you could remove all the spark plugs, squirt a little motor oil into each cylinder, and crank it on the starter until oil pressure comes up on the gauge. Better than starting it dry.

[Hallabutt]

Not exactly correct that all 1955 Commander used 224 engines. The 224 began with the serial number V312701, but was superseded by a 259 version beginning with V331101, sometime in the middle of the 1955 production year. According to my math that means that only 18400-224 cu" engines were built. The 259 cu" engine until the 1956 V363751 began, indicates that 32650, 259 cu" engines were produce in 1955. The 224 was seemingly short on power and torque which resulted in sluggish performance and ironically poorer gas mileage. These numbers do not include Canadian or truck production.

[doofus]

First things first, engine wont turn over,engine turns over but wont fire , engine wont even turn. sounds like no 2 with wrong cables all power is being taken by starter, nothing left for ignition. if a '55 for sure should be 6 volts and a 259, please verify when you can. pull plugs, remove dist cap, spin engine and watch for spark at points when the open and close.a draggy starter will suck all power trying to crank over motor leaving nothing for ign, is this a new project? please keep us informed on progress. Luck Doofus