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View Full Version : Engine: Sigh; tearing oil pan AND timing cover off and re-doing it all; please confirm method!



bsrosell
05-30-2016, 10:17 AM
if you read my post from last night, you know my oil pan and cork and RTV and Filler block woes.... ('57 289 V8).

Sleeping on it, I'm just not comfortable 'wondering' if it is going to leak or not eventually, so going out to tear it all off , hopefully before all that RTV is COMPLETELY set up, and hopefully clean it all out without getting it inside my freshly rebuilt pistons/rods/cam..... (tape a 'catch drape' in there I think.....).

Regardless;
1) read a lot of posts: what is current best practice for the NEW set of cork gaskets once I get them and get to doing it? I'm reading
a) Permatex #2 on pan side only; nothing on the BLOCK (? some say finger wipe with UltraBlack RTV)? for the PAN GASKETS. How about the "strips", same? I'm reading mostly "RTV only in corners of rear main" and wiping over the front piece along timing cover Filler AFTER assembly....

b) Timing cover: assuming I am able to get the pulley hub OFF again (heated to 250F to put it on), do you use ANYTHING on that gasket?? I had put RTV on that too. Trying to do the BEST thing, maybe did the worst....

c) already have the cork 'squares' embedded in blue RTV around the main; Do I need to dig them out and start from scratch there too? Or will RTV 'seal to itself" (fresh to cured), if I leave them, cut 'flush' with block with razor so pan gasket sits flat on them? Don't think I get new 'squares" with just a pan gasket set....

d) any tricks to the cork strips from H----? I WON'T cut them this time, but seem ridiculously oversize (and stiff). One tip was tie with string; that is my best thought now, keep the BOTTOM ends tight into rear main, and then when oil pan is over them and captures /compresses some, cut and remove string.. ?? I would think someone would have made a neoprene replacement for both front and back, that FITS, without being crushed (and squeezing out). I think I want at Permatex #2 on the block side of the Pan gaskets too, just to try to hold that darn pan gasket in place and keep the straight cork over the main bearing from pushing it out of place!
Reasonable?
Could have thrown a lot of things yesterday; proud to say I never swore out load or threw anything at all. Self-control..... barely.

e) where do you get the 'new' filler blocks? Or the helicoils ? (I have a friend who may have good used ones; need to talk to him.

And most importantly: THANK YOU VETERANS, I'm sure many of the people on this site served our nation in uniform and I am ever so grateful!!!! "Thanks' can't do justice to the debt we owe you!!!!
Barry

Thanks everyone!
Barry

52-fan
05-30-2016, 10:52 AM
I'm no expert at engine building, but I think you made a wise decision. The extra effort will be worth it in the long run.

karterfred88
05-30-2016, 11:28 AM
The only thing I wouldn't do, is bother to remove the timing cover. Follow the repair manual method of pan replacement, leaving it in place and splicing a new lower half cover gasket. With today's sealants it won't leak at the splice and you won't have to heat the hub at all. Good luck which ever way you do it.

SN-60
05-30-2016, 11:32 AM
Heating the crank hub to 250F for the install?......Never heard of that before :confused:

345 DeSoto
05-30-2016, 11:49 AM
I'm waiting for my block to get back from the Machine Shop. In the mean time, I'm attaching all the gaskets I can to the parts which go on it. One thing I've done for years, which has worked out for me is to attach the gaskets to any sheet metal parts with Contact Cement. Then, before they're installed on whatever they attach too, I apply Hylomar to the gasket and then install. If I don't use Hylomar, I apply a THIN bead of black silicone down the center of the gasket, circling any bolt holes, then attach. On casting to casting, I do the same...the "removeable" casting (water pump, filler block, etc.) get the contact cement.

bsrosell
05-30-2016, 02:34 PM
saw that on the forum here; (the temp of 250F... heating it in general to expand and make it easier to slide on quickly and center the neoprene seal was the reason....)

bsrosell
05-30-2016, 02:37 PM
The only thing I wouldn't do, is bother to remove the timing cover. Follow the repair manual method of pan replacement, leaving it in place and splicing a new lower half cover gasket. With today's sealants it won't leak at the splice and you won't have to heat the hub at all. Good luck which ever way you do it.

Thanks; debated doing exactly that (read that in the manual), but once I saw how easily the RTV was pulling off the block, which I had cleaned thoroughly with brake cleaner, I decided to play it safe(er) and also remove timing cover. And of course THERE, the RTV bonded so well that it literally split the gasket all the way around so had to scrape and clean BOTH the block and the cover. :-) Oh well, back to where I was yesterday morning and learned a few things (and a few more to learn!)

GrumpyOne
05-30-2016, 02:47 PM
Heating the crank hub to 250F for the install?......Never heard of that before :confused:


Simple physics...

But you don't have to heat that high, heating it with a hair dryer will allow it to expand as it will do so more than the crankshaft. I've been doing that for years...

SN-60
05-30-2016, 03:54 PM
Simple physics...

But you don't have to heat that high, heating it with a hair dryer will allow it to expand as it will do so more than the crankshaft. I've been doing that for years...

My point was.....I've never found it necessary to heat a Stude crank hub to install it....Was it not the hub that originally came off of the crank? :confused:

bsrosell
05-30-2016, 04:39 PM
ahh..... Since I was using RTV on the Timing Cover gasket and knew it would stick quickly, didn't take any chances. Yes, original hub, and it DID go on pretty nicely (and pulling it off with a regular puller didn't hardly take any torque once it broke loose, so good fit, may not even heat it next time. The crank-gear was such a bear to get on I was nervous about it though! :-)

41 Frank
05-30-2016, 06:23 PM
The filler blocks are available from Studebaker vendors. Helicoils can be had from your local NAPA or other FLAPS.

55 56 PREZ 4D
05-30-2016, 11:26 PM
Look over the oil pan mating surface.
Lay a flat edge on it to locate high and low spots.
Each bolt hole will probably be puckered, the corners may be not flat and level.
Prop the pan, pan side down. Put a piece of wood about 3/4" thick firmly against the bottom of the flange and gently, with a flat hammer, massage the puckers flat.
Turn the pan over and use a block of wood and hammer to move the corners flat.

doofus
05-31-2016, 07:13 AM
I'd leave cork blocks in place and add dab of RTV at pan setting time. pan side strips are glued in place and short bolts hold alignment on block, then repaired filler block is installed, this isn't easy as block must be forced down a bit to align holes. RTV makes gaskets slippery so beware. i have used a prick punch to raise metal "Teeth" on filler strip to hold gasket in place. 4 studs at corners of pan over long will help pan install, set pan on studs,tighten a bit then install short side bolts and snug, replace 4 corner studs with proper length bolts ant snug down. you did good,keep up the good work. Doofus

63t-cab
05-31-2016, 09:05 AM
Barry, I sent You a PM.


if you read my post from last night, you know my oil pan and cork and RTV and Filler block woes.... ('57 289 V8).

Sleeping on it, I'm just not comfortable 'wondering' if it is going to leak or not eventually, so going out to tear it all off , hopefully before all that RTV is COMPLETELY set up, and hopefully clean it all out without getting it inside my freshly rebuilt pistons/rods/cam..... (tape a 'catch drape' in there I think.....).

Regardless;
1) read a lot of posts: what is current best practice for the NEW set of cork gaskets once I get them and get to doing it? I'm reading
a) Permatex #2 on pan side only; nothing on the BLOCK (? some say finger wipe with UltraBlack RTV)? for the PAN GASKETS. How about the "strips", same? I'm reading mostly "RTV only in corners of rear main" and wiping over the front piece along timing cover Filler AFTER assembly....

b) Timing cover: assuming I am able to get the pulley hub OFF again (heated to 250F to put it on), do you use ANYTHING on that gasket?? I had put RTV on that too. Trying to do the BEST thing, maybe did the worst....

c) already have the cork 'squares' embedded in blue RTV around the main; Do I need to dig them out and start from scratch there too? Or will RTV 'seal to itself" (fresh to cured), if I leave them, cut 'flush' with block with razor so pan gasket sits flat on them? Don't think I get new 'squares" with just a pan gasket set....

d) any tricks to the cork strips from H----? I WON'T cut them this time, but seem ridiculously oversize (and stiff). One tip was tie with string; that is my best thought now, keep the BOTTOM ends tight into rear main, and then when oil pan is over them and captures /compresses some, cut and remove string.. ?? I would think someone would have made a neoprene replacement for both front and back, that FITS, without being crushed (and squeezing out). I think I want at Permatex #2 on the block side of the Pan gaskets too, just to try to hold that darn pan gasket in place and keep the straight cork over the main bearing from pushing it out of place!
Reasonable?
Could have thrown a lot of things yesterday; proud to say I never swore out load or threw anything at all. Self-control..... barely.

e) where do you get the 'new' filler blocks? Or the helicoils ? (I have a friend who may have good used ones; need to talk to him.

And most importantly: THANK YOU VETERANS, I'm sure many of the people on this site served our nation in uniform and I am ever so grateful!!!! "Thanks' can't do justice to the debt we owe you!!!!
Barry

Thanks everyone!
Barry

bsrosell
06-01-2016, 08:23 PM
Thanks to all for taking the time to advise and correct. First V8 for me. I love doing this type of thing myself (first thing I did when I got the car was rebuild the Flightomatic! Most fun I've had in years!)
Frustrated-mechanical-engineer who sits behind a desk, what can I say.
Determined to do it RIGHT though. And after the various "goofs" the professional mechanics did when I brought the block out for machining that I CAN'T do (like not cleaning rocker arm assemblies, removing oil pressure release valve, etc..) I dare say I think I'm better off, on average. Without a true "Stude experienced" mechanic doing the job, like most of you guys! SO again, thanks for suffering my questions and helping me do it myself...CORRECTLY!