Fuel System: They used to say 'alcohol and gasoline don't mix'

[colt45sa]

I'm not looking for a fight here, and I don't want to be chastised for not conforming to government mandates. This is for level headed, thinking, information hungry Studebaker owners who are genuinely interested in enjoying and preserving their cars.
Ethanol enhanced gasoline is not good for your Studebaker. There are steps that you can take to slow down the damage that ethanol-enhanced gasoline is doing to your car such as rebuild your fuel pump with an alcohol resistant diaphram, and replace the soft fuel lines with alcohol resistant lines. You are not going to stop the alcohol from sucking up moisture and causing rust in your gas tank and destroying you tank-level float. And, you are not going to stop it from eating up the metal in your carburetor. I'm not going to go into a lengthy discussion of how I know these things, but what I say is true.
There is a way to protect yourselves. Refiners still make 'non-alcohol' gasoline. It's called 'recreational fuel' and it is 90 octane. In the past I had recommended that people call their local fuel wholesaler and ask which of their customers sold 'rec fuel'. Today there is an easier way. Some thoughtful fellow posted the address of an internet site which listed stations around the country on a state by state basis that sold it. It is quite comprehensive, and I thank him (although I already knew of several retailers in my area that sold it). It site becomes very handy if you plan to take your car some distance out of town and will probably need to buy fuel before you get home. Here's the site: http://pure-gas.org/ BTW, It is against the law to use this fuel on the highway. "Let freedom ring"~~!

[52-fan]

Against the law? We have a few stations around here that only sell non ethanol fuel. It costs more, but its all I use in my Studebaker and small engines.

[Lynn]

Some parts of the Country still have alcohol free gas at the pump, although it is not as common as the E10. Here in OK, about 10 to 20% of the stations carry 100%. It isn't "rec" gas, and there is no restriction on its use in any car. Some even have pumps with either E10 or 100% gas, as well as E85. Not saying that there isn't "rec" gas in Fla, or other parts of the Country, but have not seen it around here. Whether a particular fuel is not legal for use on public roads is determined by whether there is a road tax built into the price. For instance, I live close to a small municipal airport whose 100LL (low lead) pump is open 24 hours and available by credit card. There is no road tax on it (but it is still almost double the cost of gas station fuel). Lots of guys take large cans and purchase for their "race" cars. I even know one guy who simply pulls up in his muscle car and purchases it. Clearly not legal as it has no road tax. Really good stuff though. LONG shelf life and very high octane. you can also mix it 1/2 and 1/2 with premium pump gas.

I won't get into the political side of this, other than to say it is a giant failure of program that makes little sense.

I don't like E10 in any of my classic cars. I have changed all the fuel hoses, and even the injectors in my 1983 factory turbo BMW, and it tolerates E10, but I only use it if the good stuff isn't available. I do take that car out of town from time to time (been a while though) and I notice it runs OK, but mileage is better with 100% gas. We only have one car newer than the Bimmer.

[Skip Lackie]

I appreciate the reminder about the pure gas site, but in large parts of the country, it takes more than a half tankful of gas to get to the nearest station selling non-ethanol gas. In those cases, the math doesn't work.

[reichsrundfunk]

Uh huh. I live In One of the comparatively few states that permit non-ethanol enriched fuel to be sold. That said, I need to drive over 30(!) Mike. To the nearest station that sells it.

So basically, recreational fuel isn't an option.

What I did for my 63 Lark V8 was this: I use 89 octane unleaded and include 2/10 gallon of Diesel per tankful. I completely bypassed the mechanical (suction type) fuel pump with a "pusher" type electric mounted just ahead of the fuel tank. This maintains positive (5 lbs average) pressure on the fuel line helping to raise boiling point of the ethanol fuel. I also insulated the fuel line co I got into the engine compartment.

Now, this has eliminated any vaporlock issues I had, plus the tiny amount of diesel seems to prevent damage to the carburetor metals described above.

I hate the new fuels like all of us, but there are a few things we can discuss to protect ourselves!

George

[colt45sa]

regarding the lae

Against the law? We have a few stations around here that only sell non ethanol fuel. It costs more, but its all I use in my Studebaker and small engines.

I worked for a fuel distributor as the Chief Financial Officer for 14 years. We received a phone call from the state of Florida asking where we sold the rec fuel and what it was being used for. Our response was that we sold it to resellers and had no idea who the end users were and what they were using it for. We were told that because there were no excise taxes levied (used to be called 'road use tax') on rec fuel, it was against the law to use it in vehicles that were used on the highway. We told them that we would 'make a note of that' information. The same goes for Av Gas.

[Skip Lackie]

I worked for a fuel distributor as the Chief Financial Officer for 14 years. We received a phone call from the state of Florida asking where we sold the rec fuel and what it was being used for. Our response was that we sold it to resellers and had no idea who the end users were and what they were using it for. We were told that because there were no excise taxes levied (used to be called 'road use tax') on rec fuel, it was against the law to use it in vehicles that were used on the highway. We told them that we would 'make a note of that' information. The same goes for Av Gas.

Yes. I think 52-fan (and I) thought you were implying that the selling the real gas (not the rec fuel) to some classes of cars was against the law. I have heard that some airports will go to the effort of collecting the road tax from favored customers who want to buy Av Gas for their cars. Maybe if I bought an airplane . . . . .

[Lynn]

I appreciate the reminder about the pure gas site, but in large parts of the country, it takes more than a half tankful of gas to get to the nearest station selling non-ethanol gas. In those cases, the math doesn't work.

Wow. Guess we are lucky here in OK. I know of four stations within a mile of our home that sell 100% gas, and several more within a mile of my office. We don't even have to go out of our way normally.

[Mike Van Veghten]

Just did a check for SoCal locations...
Most are "race gas"...very expensive...race gas.

Mike

[colt45sa]

Yes. I think 52-fan (and I) thought you were implying that the selling the real gas (not the rec fuel) to some classes of cars was against the law. I have heard that some airports will go to the effort of collecting the road tax from favored customers who what to buy Av Gas for their cars. Maybe if I bought an airplane . . . . .

Here in Florida you can tell them a little 'fib' and say you are using it in your air boat. Air boats for the most part use Lycoming aircraft engines,

[Mrs K Corbin]

+1 on that! AND my repairs needed have gone way down in the fuel systems.......

Against the law? We have a few stations around here that only sell non ethanol fuel. It costs more, but its all I use in my Studebaker and small engines.

[Commander Eddie]

This handy website has been around for several years. I have it saved in my "Favorites". I do not know when it was last updated since it is up to users to update the information and no date is posted when this is done.
Great site. Just wish there were more places available.

[paul shuffleburg]

There are no gas stations in Maine to buy straight gas, only airports and marinas. The thing
I don't understand is that only 7 states mandate E-10, Louisiana, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana,
Oregon, Pennsylvania, and Washington. So why do they keep cramming this crap down our carbs?

[Commander Eddie]

There are no gas stations in Maine to buy straight gas, only airports and marinas. The thing
I don't understand is that only 7 states mandate E-10, Louisiana, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana,
Oregon, Pennsylvania, and Washington. So why do they keep cramming this crap down our carbs?

There is a great line from the movie Zorba The Greek in response to a different question (obiously). . .
"The problem with your question is that no one has the answer."

[Skip Lackie]

There are no gas stations in Maine to buy straight gas, only airports and marinas. The thing
I don't understand is that only 7 states mandate E-10, Louisiana, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana,
Oregon, Pennsylvania, and Washington. So why do they keep cramming this crap down our carbs?

I was the chair of the SDC legislation committee in the 1990s and wrote a couple of columns in TW that traced the history of the oxygenated fuel requirement, but I think I can try to answer that question more briefly.

The 1990 amendments to the Clean Air Act required the use of oxygenated fuels in US regions that had serious air pollution. They also gave the EPA the authority to set air quality standards for the US, and to withhold highway construction funds from states or cities that (1) were not in compliance with those standards, and (2) were not taking enough action to bring their air quality into compliance. As noted, among the actions that must be taken is the use of oxygenated fuels -- that is, the sale of "real gas" in non-compliance regions is prohibited by law. The effect of this is that the oil companies don't even bother shipping real gas to “border” areas where the demand is low, even though it may be legal in those areas. So real gas tends to only be available in large, relatively rural areas, fairly far from urban areas, nearly all of which are still in non-compliance.

The original idea as worked out between the Bush Administration and the Democratic Congress was that the primary oxygenate would be methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE), a chemical specifically developed by the petroleum industry for that purpose. But the law did allow the use of other oxygenates, the principal of which was ethanol. Unfortunately, MTBE turned out to be a carcinogen, and also preferred dissolving in water to doing so in gasoline. Leaking tanks and spills soon started fouling water wells in places as distant as Maine and California. Congress banned the use of MTBE, which pretty much left us with ethanol as an oxygenate. This was a boon to the corn farmers, grain agents, and distillers, who had responded by building ethanol plants all over the country. They have successfully lobbied Congress to continue the mandate, even though the cost/benefit ratio may not really work (it takes a lot of oil to grow and transport the corn, distill the ethanol, and ship it to the refineries).

States and cities are encouraged to take many other actions as well, such as building rapid transit, establishing HOV lanes, establishing vehicle emissions testing programs, etc. All these count toward satisfying the requirements of the Clean Air Act of 1970 and its 1990 amendments. Some states have chosen to mandate oxygenated fuel state-wide, as a way to get extra credit, even though there are parts of those states in which real gas would be legal.