Fuel System: Cough, cough, hesitation

[Dick LeRoux]

Fuel problem redux. I thought I had everything sorted out, but not quite yet. Everything has been done or redone on my '63 Avanti R-2 R2658. Gas tank cleaned (not lined) check. Engine rebuild, check. Carburetor rebuild, check. Transmission rebuild, check. New fuel lines, check. Radiator rebuild, check. All new belts & hoses, check & check. Replacement gas cap with a hole drilled through the middle, check. Everything was fine until this past Saturday. It starts out strong and pulls fine up to 75 mph. After about 4 miles we were on a gradual uphill section & then it started to hesitate. I gradually was losing power but made it to the top of the hill. Turned around to limp home & tried one more hill, same hesitation and losing power. I was convinced it was a clogged fuel filter. Replaced that on Sunday & tried the same route only this time I was on the flat, no hill, not even two miles away & the same hesitation & gradual loss of power. 97 octane good gas, no ethanol, & I added the lead additive. Any ideas as to where to start would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

-got no smiles, cuz I can't do the miles

[RadioRoy]

Is the coil overheating? When it loses power, do you still have a hot spark? Does it only lose power going uphill?

[karterfred88]

Coil, condenser, look at the points, if new are they pitted already? Since it seems to start out okay, then produce the problem when warm, I'd do some electrical checking. A bad spark plug will cause a miss but not slow you down and then work okay cold. A bad condenser can cause the miss under load and work ok cold, with Chinese parts they are always suspect. Good luck, I don't think it's fuel related this time.

[Dick LeRoux]

Roy,
I haven't checked the coil. I should say that I have the electronic ignition that Dave Theibeault sells. I think it's Mallory? At first I thought it was a problem associated with going uphill, but it doesn't matter now. It acts the same whether going uphill or on the flat. When it first cropped up it took about 4 - 5 miles before it started, but on Sunday it happened in less than 2 miles.

[rstrasser]

Dieroux;
If you still have the Prestolite Distributor I would install it and see what happens.
I have one of Dave's Distributors and so far no trouble. I did add one of the surge protectors that Mallory sells. Or should say used to sell before they were acquired. They are still available for about 60+ dollars. The price has gone up.
Did you check the fuel filter?
Happens if you stop and let the engine idle and then start up again?
Ron

[karterfred88]

Did you replace all those fuel hoses? Tank to chassis, chassis to fuel pump? Look at the pump to chassis hose while blipping the throttle, does it constrict or twist, have a kink in it. If all else fails, pull line off tank, run 15 feet of new fuel injection hose to the fuel pump inlet, tie wrap it in place, and drive it to rule out the steel lines as a rust through problem. You seem to have no luck with this car.

[BILT4ME]

Is the fuel filter between the pump and the carb or the pump and the tank?

[doofus]

Fuel pump? Doofus

[StudeRich]

Have you checked that the "Reference Line" (Metal & Rubber) from the top of the (Carter R2 Super Pump) Fuel Pump over the Diaphragm, to the Paxton is connected, open and working?

Also that the Bowl Vent on the Fuel Pump is properly PLUGGED as an R2 Pump Should be.

[Dick LeRoux]

Fuel filter was changed Sunday & Yes karterfred88 I have to agree. I have had no luck with this car, so far. Every outing is an adventure & now the Mrs. says "No way" as far as riding. The fuel filter is right where it should be, right before the carb. All the fuel lines have been replaced & I removed an additional fuel filter that was between the tank & the fuel pump. I tightened all of the connections to the fuel pump and watched sufficient fuel being pumped to the carb. I replaced the fuel filter with a clear one so I could watch & at idle everything seems to be A-okay. Starting out for the first ~ 1 - 2 miles all is good, but then the hesitation / losing power starts. & yes, Rich everything is 100% as to the connections. As far as fuel pump, new from SI. Everything worked for about ~ 15 miles worth of driving before, however, this is now chronic. I'm beginning to think electrical & maybe not fuel? The weekend lies ahead so there are problems yet to be solved.

[karterfred88]

Is the temp gauge functioning? Does it go up then steady at about 180? Too bad you don't have an old school distributor. I've seen several Mallory fry jobs on here lately. They are so hard to diagnose, it seems the only way to find out if they are the root of the problem is to put in the old school type or replace the module. Since it seems to be a time, heat cycle thing, since you seem pretty sure the fuel is getting there, electrical is the next step. This is a R2-no? Try pulling the supercharger belts, run it on the carb only, even if you have to jury rig a temp air cleaner. Not to alarm you, but since this is a fresh rebuild, I would also invest in cheap Harbor Freight Digital Inspection Camera. If nothing electrical fixes it, pull the plugs and look for any up/down scuffing on the cylinder bore cross hatch pattern.

[doofus]

If you think it will help the diagnosis problem i have a spare prestolite single point in good shape also 2 dual point units in as found shape. PM me if you want to beg,.borrow,steal either. Best of Luck , Doofus

[Dick LeRoux]

Thanks for the advice & I do have the original distributor. I'll do my best to attack this over the weekend. Yes it is an R-2 so I can try it without the belts. A friend who has a '54 Chev suggested the spark plugs so there's another avenue of concern. I'll give an update as to what I find out.

[rkapteyn]

Your problem may be the result of installing the incorrect intake manifold gaskets and the carburetor getting too hot.
The intake manifold gaskets are different for the R2.
A major Avanti parts supplier from Michigan has intake manifold gaskets on Ebay, stating that these are for the R2 engines also.
This is incorrect
The MS9001SH-1 gaskets are standard V8 gaskets
The R2 engines used gaskets that have the center ports (carburetor heat) blocked.
One side has a small hole in the blocked port for the choke tube but the other side is completely blocked , these were metal gaskets,
This to prevent hot exhaust gasses from heating the R2 carburator.
The fact that the problems start after a while is a good indication that this may be your problem.
I think the confusion stems from one of the early pictures of the R2 in an auto magazine that shows the regular gaskets used on an R2 engine.
Studebaker later recognized the carburetor heating problems and made the correct gaskets available at a time that research dollars were scarce and tooling cost for Victor (the supplier of these gaskets) was to be considered.
Felpro also sold these special gasket sets.
Jon Myer sells reproduction R2 gaskets made from composite gasket material.
Even though I do not like composite gaskets because of other issues,this maybe our only choice because original gaskets are nowhere to be found.
Some owners have made stainless block off plates and used the standard gasket with these.
To read other discussions see:
http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/.../sdc44467.html.

Robert Kapteyn

[Dick LeRoux]

Someone in "another" thread rightfully pointed out that they never got a response from the original poster as far as progress. I plead guilty because I didn't have any progress to report. What we were able to determine is that when the car was under "load" it was starved for fuel. The fuel to the carb dropped and was routed through the return to the fuel tank. Okay, let's cut that source out of the loop. Fine & dandy under load, however the carb was flooded under normal driving. AAAARGGH. The check valve was replaced, but still the same problem. It's not "stock" but the only work-around we could come up with is a fuel pressure regulator before the carb and it adjusts for load & keeps excess going back to the fuel tank. In the category of "I'd rather be happy than right" everything now is hunky dory. As a matter of fact this is the best this car has run since I've had it, granted it's been almost two years & I've put maybe 50 miles on it but there is no hesitation, it behaves in traffic, I don't have to keep putting it into neutral & feathering the accelerator just to keep it running. Al Basile & Lou Cote might faint when they see the regulator but as I said, I can live with this & it works. Will it be 100%, no, but who among us is?