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RSykes
04-08-2016, 12:38 PM
Restoring a '64 Champ 8E5 p/u, had to replace cab because door pillars were shot. This truck outfitted with 6-cyl OHC and A/T. Bought a '60 cab, not realizing it was punched for a standard transmission. Had to cut left of the steering rod/jacket hole to accept my steering. Now, wondering if I need to look at replacing the accelerator cross-shaft.

I see 4 cross shafts in green-cover Studebaker Catalog of Truck Parts 7E, 8E Series, (1962-1963), Jnuary 1963, p. 82:

# 1693140 w/STD--LHC
# 1693142 w/OD & AD--LHC
# 1696505 wStd--LHC
# 1696507 w/OD & AD--LHC


My cross shaft has a three-hole attachment plate. The '60 cab has two attachment holes.

Any ideas?

Rick:D

StudeRich
04-08-2016, 12:59 PM
As you learn to use your Truck Parts Catalog you will get used to looking up the Model codes in the front and remembering what they mean so that you can read over to the right of these listings and understand their differences by Model/Truck Size and Year Model.

One of the 4 cross shafts is for your '60 Cab with the Flathead 6 engine and one is for your your '63 with the OHV 6.

You will need to use the one that matches your Engine, Year, and Transmission in your "new" '60 Cab.

Since you appear to be a pretty good "Fabricator", It may be possible for you to use the through the floor Pedals with your Overhead Six with a little "Custom" conversion work (Jerryrigging) so you do not have to tear everything up to convert it to use the suspended Pedals that are clearly not as good as the older through the floor setup.

Yes, the entire Steering linkage and Steering Gear were "updated" many times between '60 and '64 and are completely different, some ease of steering "Upgrades" were NOT improvements in longevity. :(

Actually the Cab differences you noted were not because of the Different Trans. Type, it was the "Upgraded Steering System".

RSykes
04-08-2016, 02:02 PM
Thanks. Yes, I've had to do a few "re-engineering" items on the truck. I was able, for instance, to keep the original dash and "fit" it to the "new" cab. In my mind I can see how to use the accelerator shaft I have. Have to do a couple of experiments. I keep learning about the use of the parts book I bought it in '08. Thanks for the tip. Still learning things. (If you are a Studebaker afficianado read on: I kept the original dash because an assembly worker scratched his name into the underside in August of 1963. When I repainted it, I taped off the scratching. You can see it with a mirror.)

Skybolt
04-08-2016, 02:14 PM
Interesting topic, I was unaware of so many changes in the T-cab trucks. If I get one again I will look into the differences more in depth and know exactly what goes on.

Len

StudeNewby
04-08-2016, 02:37 PM
...so you do not have to tear everything up to convert it to use the suspended Pedals that are clearly not as good as the older through the floor setup...

Rich, I'm curious as to why you say the suspended pedals are inferior.

StudeRich
04-08-2016, 03:57 PM
So you have a '64 with a Manual Trans. and you have not broken the Clutch Lever on the Frame, the cross shaft under the dash or had the Pedal break off and fall on the Floor YET? give it a few more miles. :rolleyes:

Then there is the poor Leverage with that funky Linkage system as well. I agree that they LOOK Better, more Modern and up to date but the Miles are not kind to them, and Heaven forbid you put a stronger Pressure Plate in it for less slippage, then it WILL be done, guaranteed.

Those of us that have owned and driven '63/'64 8E's a bit, have experienced this first hand, others not so much.
The worst ones are the ones with the "Cab a Rockin" because of the in Floor Cab mounts being rusted out.

Because of this experience, I prefer the '62 7E Model Champs.
I inherited my Dad's purchased New, '60 Champ 5E6-122, Commander Six with the outdated, mismatched 1949 Style '56 Pickup Box, but at least it has good Pedals. ;)

StudeRich
04-08-2016, 04:06 PM
Interesting topic, I was unaware of so many changes in the T-cab trucks. If I get one again I will look into the differences more in depth and know exactly what goes on.
Len

A VERY Good Point Len. Also remember that the 8E champs had THE BEST Brakes ever!

They developed a New Backing plate to use the Big V8 Car Bendix Style, Starwheel Adjusted, Self-energizing Shoes on all 4 Wheels. :!: Triple Yea! :cool:

GrumpyOne
04-09-2016, 12:25 AM
So you have a '64 with a Manual Trans. and you have not broken the Clutch Lever on the Frame, the cross shaft under the dash or had the Pedal break off and fall on the Floor YET? give it a few more miles. :rolleyes:

Then there is the poor Leverage with that funky Linkage system as well. I agree that they LOOK Better, more Modern and up to date but the Miles are not kind to them, and Heaven forbid you put a stronger Pressure Plate in it for less slippage, then it WILL be done, guaranteed.

Those of us that have owned and driven '63/'64 8E's a bit, have experienced this first hand, others not so much.
The worst ones are the ones with the "Cab a Rockin" because of the in Floor Cab mounts being rusted out.

Because of this experience, I prefer the '62 7E Model Champs.
I inherited my Dad's purchased New, '60 Champ 5E6-122, Commander Six with the outdated, mismatched 1949 Style '56 Pickup Box, but at least it has good Pedals. ;)

I went through three clutch pedals that sheared near the pedal itself on a '64 T-cab back in the 1980's. Unlike the cars, the entire shaft had to carry the torsional load down to the bell housing clutch release shaft and was way under-engineered.

When I got another '64 T-cab in the late 1990's, I custom installed a powershift with a custom driveshaft. Best move I ever made!

clonelark
04-09-2016, 09:52 AM
I passed on a cheap T-cab because the firewall was cracked around the master cylinder. i have been wanting a Champ but thought i wanted a 63-64, but not so sure now.

GrumpyOne
04-09-2016, 11:05 PM
I passed on a cheap T-cab because the firewall was cracked around the master cylinder. i have been wanting a Champ but thought i wanted a 63-64, but not so sure now.

My last T-Cab, a '64 had the same issue and was originally a four speed truck. What I did was to reinforce the sheetmetal with a thick doubler that I fabricated from 1/16" steel along with a custom suspended pedal bracket that extended to the firewall and a power brake booster from a Lark. There's nothing like good brakes on a truck!

Both, the engine/tranny were replaced by a 289 out of a PowerShift GT Hawk.

Warren Webb
04-10-2016, 02:42 AM
Drove my 62 Champ 3/4 ton truck down to Wildomar today & boy do I wish someone would come up with a disc brake conversion for it! Right now it has the original (although I rebuilt them when I put it back on the road) brakes along with a dual master cylinder setup from Jim Turner but it does not want to stop very well. Otherwise it runs great!

StudeNewby
04-10-2016, 08:05 AM
Turner has discs for trucks, too. I'm not sure if they are just for the 1/2 ton or not. They are on my wish list for Stuey.

Skip Lackie
04-10-2016, 08:36 AM
Jim Turner had a prototype 3/4-ton disc brake system on display at York last month.

RSykes
04-11-2016, 01:22 PM
I passed on a cheap T-cab because the firewall was cracked around the master cylinder. i have been wanting a Champ but thought i wanted a 63-64, but not so sure now.

I found working on my '64 Champ a total pleasure. Just photogrph, mark wires, parts, etc. They may be the simplest of any Studebaker to work on.

RSykes
04-11-2016, 01:32 PM
Relocated my accelerator cross shaft from my '64 Champ 8E5--fitted it to the "new" '60 cab. Works fine.

StudeNewby
10-23-2016, 08:30 PM
So you have a '64 with a Manual Trans. and you have not broken the Clutch Lever on the Frame, the cross shaft under the dash or had the Pedal break off and fall on the Floor YET? give it a few more miles. :rolleyes:


Rich, you are a prophet! I gave it about 1000-1500 more miles and sure enough, the clutch pedal went flat to the floor Friday afternoon! Fortunately, I was off the road. :!:

The culprit was the pivot bolt on the frame, which obviously takes a lot of wear and tear. I cannot access my parts catalogs (it's on CD ROM and my computer is not cooperating :(), so can somebody tell me what this part is actually called or, better, provide the part number? And if anyone has a good one, preferably new or NOS, that they would like to sell, I'd appreciate it. I want to get the truck back on the road in time for the Studebaker/Packard/Mercedes-Benz Family Reunion (http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?97001-Studebaker-Packard-Mercedes-Benz-Family-Reunion!&highlight=Family+Reunion) in Raleigh on November 5!

BTW, it's a 64 8E7 with 3-speed and overdrive.

Thanks in advance!
59323

StudeRich
10-23-2016, 08:59 PM
It's a 1552299 "Pivot Pin, Bellcrank" with (2) 1543914 Plastic Bushings. Picture Number 206-44 & 46.
These are Car Numbers so the same as '61 to '64 Lark and Lark Types.

This is not all that common, usually it's the welds on the Shafts and Levers, but yes I have sold those in the past for these trucks for the same reason.

I did not find the Pivot Pin in the S.I. Catalog, just the Bushings. So a call there might work, but I am pretty sure as common as they are for all '61-64 or later Larks, Avanti and all '63-'64 Champs with Manual Trans., if they were there and Ed, Bob Johnson or Jim knew it, they would be in the Catalog.

So my best guess is that Studebakers West would probably have it, I am down to just ONE for my "New" Truck so I can't help sorry.

StudeNewby
10-23-2016, 10:04 PM
Thanks, Rich. As always, your knowledge is much appreciated.