Electrical: Electrical problem developed

[Roger Minnick]

Saturday, I went to the warehouse to get my 48 commander out of storage. The 6 volt battery was weak, not enough to turn the starter. so I took it home and gave it a 50 amp charge for about and hour or two. Returned to the storage warehouse put it in and fired it up. Heading home she stalled and I let it sit for a few minutes then she started again.. I was letting it idle, with the heater on when passerby wanted to talk about the car.. few minutes went by and I got on my way again.. all of a sudden she stopped. I smelled smoke lifted the hood and I had a wire coming off the top of the starter about a 14 gauge red hot smokin... I digress the volt gauge was banging negative (not charging when i was driving) now I have the burned wire and can not start. My question is if I replace the burned wire and install a new voltage regulator after polarizing it... should she run. I also found tonight that my battery is not holding a charge so I am also planning on getting new battery tomorrow. Is there a fuse further up the line behind the dash I need to find? Did the slightly discharge battery lead to this problem? Might the contacts in the 67 year old voltage regulator have fused or stuck closed to cause this problem?
I am trying to figure this out before I put in the new voltage regulator and new battery.
Any ideas would help.. I am a newbie...

[Warren Webb]

Roger . first of all "Welcome to the forum!" I wish I had more knowledge of electrical problems to help. I would suggest though that you copy & paste this post & place it in the Tech Talk forum for more visibility. If you don't perhaps one of the moderators will do it for you & again, welcome.

[fiveftsix]

Roger welcome to the Forum,
I believe the large red wire is the main feed that goes to the Amp meter that then supplies power to the ign switch etc.
If that wire has "burnt out" it would suggest to me that there is a dead short somewhere.
Replacing it should restore the starting but may not rectify the reason why it burnt out in the first place
If you replace it be careful when it comes to connecting it back on the solenoid it may give off a large spark denoting a dead short farther back.
And make sure ign and all accessories are in the OFF position prior to connecting it.
If you have a wiring diagram you can trace that red lead and also to what other circuits it supplies.
Geoff

[Roger Minnick]

Thanks Geoff

[Roger Minnick]

Electrical Problem developed

Saturday, I went to the warehouse to get my 48 commander out of storage. The 6 volt battery was weak, not enough to turn the starter. so I took it home and gave it a 50 amp charge for about and hour or two. Returned to the storage warehouse put it in and fired it up. Heading home she stalled and I let it sit for a few minutes then she started again.. I was letting it idle, with the heater on when passerby wanted to talk about the car.. few minutes went by and I got on my way again.. all of a sudden she stopped. I smelled smoke lifted the hood and I had a wire coming off the top of the starter about a 14 gauge red hot smokin... I digress the volt gauge was banging negative (not charging when i was driving) now I have the burned wire and can not start. My question is if I replace the burned wire and install a new voltage regulator after polarizing it... should she run. I also found tonight that my battery is not holding a charge so I am also planning on getting new battery tomorrow. Is there a fuse further up the line behind the dash I need to find? Did the slightly discharge battery lead to this problem? Might the contacts in the 67 year old voltage regulator have fused or stuck closed to cause this problem?
I am trying to figure this out before I put in the new voltage regulator and new battery.
Any ideas would help.. I am a newbie...

[fiveftsix]

That Red wire Roger is a #10 gauge wire and does go direct to the charge side of the amp gauge from there two other feeds are taken off.
one to the cigar lighter if so fitted and the other to the fog light switch if fitted
So with everything switched off, you should not have a problem in replacing the red wire unless either of the above have a problem.
Everything else is controlled via the ign switch or though circuit breakers that come off the discharge side of the amp gauge.
reading your original post you mention you had the heater blower running.
That may be why the motor cut out on you causing a dead short and with the motor only at idle was demanding more current than the dynamo was providing.
Both the heater blower and the demister motor should be protected by circuit breakers that are normally found under the dash.
replace the red wire at the amp meter but do not connect it yet to the solenoid just touch it on the solenoid terminal, see if you get a spark.
You could also leave off any other wires at that amp gauge post for the moment.
if ok then try it with the ign switch in the on position but everything else "off"
You will get a spark but not a big heavy spark.
You could go through the accessories one at a time doing it this way.
You`ll soon know when you hit the jackpot as you will get one rather real big spark when touching it on the solenoid.
It`s a long winded method but without a multi meter does work none the less.
Geoff

[Mrs K Corbin]

What do you mean by Banging Negative?
Ammeter Needle Close to the Center, but on the Negative side generally tells you that the charging system is inop.
Ammeter Pegged all the way left is a DEAD Short!

I would disconnect the Volt Reg and not run it until the short is found. Generally the BATT wire is generally all that's needed disconnect, but make sure you Cap It OFF.
Replace the burned wire and check for shorts elsewhere, before firing it back up.

I've been known to do this on the side of the road with mine at least once.

How old is the harness? Might be time for a new one.

A fresh set of eyes electrically might do you some good.

[nvonada]

Don't replace anything until you find the short. As you are finding out the electrical systems on these cars are not as safe as one would like. I put a battery switch on mine and never leave it parked with the power on. I keep the fire extinguisher handy too.

The good news is this sounds like a solid short. Intermittent problems are the worst. I had an old VW where the car would go dead once in a while when I hit a bump. Eventually tracked it down to a bad ignition switch but it drove me nuts finding it.

Nathan

[Roger Minnick]

One week later, thanks everyone for your help on my 48 Commander.
Found the short.. it was the voltage regulator... replaced the wiring
that was fried... and the ol 48 is back puring like a kitten.
Roger Minnick

[altair]

I would not charge any battery at 50 amps. With a 100 amp/hr battery it will take 3 hours at 6 amps to fully charge. At 50 amps for 2 hours could damage the battery. Was the battery in the car and was anything turned on during this charging time?

[Mrs K Corbin]

Excellent point altair. Easy to overcharge when using a Charger in Jumpstart position to charge with..... Use the 10amp mode for a quick charge, use the 2 amp mode for an overnight charge (which I prefer)

[TWChamp]

10 and 11 are right on. A good way to destroy a battery is to use a high charge, which can buckle the plates and create an internal short. In fact you are lucky the battery didn't explode. This actually may have led to your problems. I never use more than my 6 amp Sears charger, and I leave it on from 30 minutes to a few hours depending on how low the battery is.

As far as voltage regulators and generators, the best is the original factory parts. When I bought my 1950 Champion 2 years ago, the seller had just installed a rebuilt generator, new voltage regulator and a new $112 eight volt battery. I immediately removed the 8 volt battery and sold it and the 8 volt charger on craigslist for $75. I then installed a 10 year old 6 volt battery I had laying under a bush. I then went to a junk yard and bought an original generator and voltage regulator, and restored them. The car has had a perfect charging system since then. The repro voltage regulators I've seen are cheap junk compared to original parts.