Clutch / Torque Converter: 1950 Champion clutch trouble

[Lothar]

The spring weather has been very pleasant here. So much so that I got my Champion out of storage to give it a little exercise. It started right up and was running well as I puttered around town the past couple days, getting waves and thumbs up from my friends and neighbors. Yesterday I drove the Champion to work, then drove it home for lunch. No problems until I got home. I went to shift it into reverse and it wouldn't go, it was grinding badly. "Huh, whats up with that?" I thought to myself. No problem, I just shut the car off, shifted into reverse and went inside for lunch. When I got back in the car after lunch and tried to start it, it went backwards (slowly) propelled by the starter. I shifted it into neutral and was able to start the engine but, again, couldn't get into gear. I was in a hurry to get back to work, so I got into another vehicle and left the Stude on the street. I was hopeful that maybe I just needed to adjust the clutch pedal. When I got home, I tried that, but I couldn't seem to get it adjusted to enable the clutch to engage. I was working in dim light in the street, so I might have overadjusted the clevis, but I adjusted and readjusted it in both directions and never got it to work for me. I now fear the worst. Maybe a broken spring or a bad throwout bearing? Any ideas? I'm not in a position to do a serious clutch teardown right now. Is there a way to get it to start in gear in this condition by push-starting it, so I can at least get it put away until I have time, money and a place to do the work it will need? Any ideas or suggestions for things to try or examine would be greatly appreciated.

[E. Davis]

Probably do less damage and be safer to call a tow truck.

[RadioRoy]

Look at the clutch linkage very closely.

There is a collar that connects the rotating shaft to the shaft/stub that enters the bell housing. That collar either cracks or one of the the two pins break.

That's because no one ever greases the zerk on the bell housing where the shaft enters it.

You have to look closely at the collar and both ends of both pins to see what is broken. The ends of the pins do not always fall out, so the problem can be difficult to see. It's not easy to get your hand in there, but persevere and you can fix it.

Do not fear the worst. Investigate and find the real problem. It's generally that simple, at least it was in the two 50 Champions that I once owned. This is a very common failure mode. Once you repair it, be sure to lube the zerk fitting on the bell housing.

The whole linkage is clearly pictured in the chassis parts book.

[jackb]

I'd bring up to temps in neutral. Shut it off. Put it in 1st and start it "in" gear and get back in the drive.

[Lothar]

Roy
Thanks for your advice about that shaft. I was working out in the street with a flashlight last night. I will look at it in the driveway in daylight this time. I have the chassis parts book, service manual, etc., so I will study that assembly. I hope that it is as simple as replacing a pin or even a related part outside the clutch. I didn't hear any bad noises before, during or after this problem arose, so I hope that the problem isn't serious. I just needed guidance from other owners, which is what this forum does best!

Jack
Thanks for your advice about getting it moving under its own power.

E. Davis
I can't imagine that there is a lot that could break beyond whatever is already apparently broken if I run it, as long as I leave it in first gear and drive slowly. Feel free to correct me if you are aware of some specific potential problem that I might encounter or create.

By the way, for purposes of full disclosure, this is a 3-speed with overdrive, but I doubt that's relevant to the problem at hand.

[doofus]

Lothar the 2 fingers on the clutch operating shaft inside the bellhousing can slip, they are brazed to the shaft and will fail from time to time, pull trans and bellhousing and re-weld fingers. luck Doofus

[tim333]

My overdrive relay shorted on my 57 Commander, was stuck in reverse even though I could move the shift lever. It wouldn't even roll with the clutch pushed in. I feared trans problems until I found the bad OD relay, ez fix.

[Lothar]

Progress Report:
I had some time last night after work and before it got dark (I am REALLY looking forward to the changeover to Daylight Saving Time this weekend) to check out my Champion in more detail. First, as Jackb suggested, I got the engine warmed up in neutral, shut off the car, put it in first gear and drove it off the street into my driveway (about 100'). That clutch didn't make any unusual noises on this short drive, which suggests to me that there aren't any loose parts, at least not any big ones, rattling around loose inside the clutch.
Once I got it into the driveway, I jacked the car up and took a close look at the clutch pedal shaft connecting collar (see picture below) that Radioroy suggested might be broken. That part is #0206-26 on the diagram below (that is what you were talking about right, Roy?). It is still attached and moves with the pedal shaft. The inner pin (closest to the clutch) can be wiggled, the outer pin is pretty tight. I didn't use a lot of persuasion, but I wasn't able to push the outer pin out after I got the cotter pin out. The collar does wiggle laterally. I don't think that's the problem, but I suppose I won't know for sure unless I get it disconnected. I also was unable to adjust the pedal to a position where the clutch would engage.
I will inspect this collar and its pins in more detail, but I would be interested in any other theories about what might be wrong with my clutch and what I should check for.
By the way, the root cause of my problem might be the transmission mounts. The rubber parts have deteriorated, so they are apparently a little loose. I noticed that the pedal shaft appears to have slid sideways about half an inch, because I can see a polished area on the shaft that was previously in the bracket (part #0206-8 on the "Late Model 9G" diagram). Has anyone changed out those mount pads without dropping the transmission? Could I disconnect the front engine mount and the two back mounts and jack up the engine and transmission a couple inches to change out those mounts? Any opinions and ideas are appreciated.

[RadioRoy]

0206-26 and 0206-27 are the parts I am talking about. Clean them up well and inspect them very closely. The collar can be cracked and/or the pins can be broken.

0203-16B looks like it might be the zerk fitting that never gets greased.

[DWBookout]

Clutch Problem

The outer support bracket #0206-19 cracked on my 1950 Champion. Interesting drive home but made it. Had the bracket welded then found an NOS part on eBay. Now have an extra if anyone needs it.

The spring weather has been very pleasant here. So much so that I got my Champion out of storage to give it a little exercise. It started right up and was running well as I puttered around town the past couple days, getting waves and thumbs up from my friends and neighbors. Yesterday I drove the Champion to work, then drove it home for lunch. No problems until I got home. I went to shift it into reverse and it wouldn't go, it was grinding badly. "Huh, whats up with that?" I thought to myself. No problem, I just shut the car off, shifted into reverse and went inside for lunch. When I got back in the car after lunch and tried to start it, it went backwards (slowly) propelled by the starter. I shifted it into neutral and was able to start the engine but, again, couldn't get into gear. I was in a hurry to get back to work, so I got into another vehicle and left the Stude on the street. I was hopeful that maybe I just needed to adjust the clutch pedal. When I got home, I tried that, but I couldn't seem to get it adjusted to enable the clutch to engage. I was working in dim light in the street, so I might have overadjusted the clevis, but I adjusted and readjusted it in both directions and never got it to work for me. I now fear the worst. Maybe a broken spring or a bad throwout bearing? Any ideas? I'm not in a position to do a serious clutch teardown right now. Is there a way to get it to start in gear in this condition by push-starting it, so I can at least get it put away until I have time, money and a place to do the work it will need? Any ideas or suggestions for things to try or examine would be greatly appreciated.

[fpstude]

I don't think it has been mentioned, but part number 0206-1 in the above diagram can also be a problem. The connection between the shaft and the bracket can spin. This happened to me once and it took a long time and a very experienced Studebaker mechanic to help find the problem. I had it welded. Then in the first shake down trip after that one of the pins mentioned by Roy broke.

[Mrs K Corbin]

yup, pin breaks, spins on shaft....

[Lothar]

Roy
I found the grease zerk you mentioned. It shows in the picture in my last post. I will get that collar cleaned up and inspect it. The pins in the collar should just push out after the cotter pins are removed, right?

[RadioRoy]

Roy
I found the grease zerk you mentioned. It shows in the picture in my last post. I will get that collar cleaned up and inspect it. The pins in the collar should just push out after the cotter pins are removed, right?

They might be rusted in place, they might be broken, and the collar might be cracked or have elongated holes.

[thunderations]

I just parted out a 47,000 mile, 50 Champion Starlight Coupe and have all of the clutch linkage parts if you need any. Also have all the front steering and suspension, minus the brakes and the rear axle, 4:10 ratio, minus the brakes. There's still a bunch of other parts too if you need anything, please ask. Body and frame on the car were rusted beyond repair, but the mechanical parts are nearly perfect.