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sbca96
06-02-2006, 09:32 PM
When I wash my Avanti it leaks water inside, it leaks from just about
everywhere, but the two most annoying are the rear side 1/4 windows.
I just move the high pressure washer BY the window and it shoots in
like theere isnt any rubber - but there is! How do you adjust these?

Is there a tech link on HOW to check the Hog Troughs to see if they
are bad, good or fixable? I see pics of an Avanti frame that looks
better then mine, and the caption is look at this! I did, and I didnt
think it was that bad for a 40+ year old car - what am I missing?

The fuel return line has been disconnected on this Avanti for the last
7 years, when I found a pool of gas under the car, and a badly rusted
return line. I capped it at both ends on the car, and just recently
bent in some new steel line. Its a no brainer at the back, but the
front is another story, I plugged the hose bib threaded hole, but have
misplaced the hose bib now. Is this a metered part? Or will a local
parts house be able to supply a bib to fit a rubber union hose?

The stock fuel pump is leaking, I would like to get rid of it, I ran
an electric pump at the front of my Hawk for years, and pulled it off
the Hawk prior to putting it in storage. The output of the stock pump
is where the "t" is for the return line, would a pressure regulator
be worth while putting on the return line AND the line to the carb, so
that the pump isnt just returning fuel to the tank, and staving the
engine. At a glance the other weekend, it looked like an odd setup.

Thanks for your input.

Tom

1963 Studebaker Avanti (http://hometown.aol.com/sbca96/images/63avanti.jpg), 102,000, custom made brake brackets to mount 1998 Mustang GT 4 wheel disc brakes (soon to get 13" Cobra front brakes, 2003 Mustang Cobra 17" wheels, GM altenator, will be getting : 97 Camaro Z28 tan leather seats, 97 Camaro Z28 T-56 6-speed trans, Ported 'R3' style Avanti heads with stainless full flow valves, 'R3' 276 duration cam w/chrysler solid lifters, shortened push rods, aluminum cam gear, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires, waiting in the garage.

JDP
06-02-2006, 10:49 PM
Welcome to Avanti world. You can make a Avanti water tight given enough time and money, mostly all new rubber and some sealer will do it.
Easy hog trought tests:

Bang on them with your fist or a rubber mallet to check for rust. If they pass that test, flood the base of the windshield air intake and check where the water comes out of the troughs. If it's just at the front and rear drain holes, you're golden, sides and bottom, big trouble.
The frames usually start to rust in the bottom frame plate, over and behind the rear wheel. The return line is not metered. I don't like electric pumps, but if you must, mount it at the rear and wire it with a oil pressure safety switch because Avanti's burn nicely.

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63 R2 4 speed GT Black
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53 Coupe

sbca96
06-03-2006, 05:22 AM
quote:Originally posted by JDP
Bang on them with your fist or a rubber mallet to check for rust. If they pass that test,

What exactly makes it pass? Its got rust, I havent seen any 40+ year
old cars not have ANY rust. What am I going to look for that tells me
that it fails or passes? I pounded on the drivers side one with a
hammer and had rust come out of the drain hole. The bottom of the hog
looked solid though, no holes. I found a rust hole at the rear of the
hog, which is about an inch in diameter, the hole is not at the bottom
of the hog, but on the end (vertical). I found metal rust flake in
the hole, but again, the bottom seemed OK, is there supposed to be a
drain hole at the rear that has just got bigger?


quote:flood the base of the windshield air intake and check where the water comes out of the troughs. If it's just at the front and rear drain holes, you're golden, sides and bottom, big trouble.

I will have to try this, will this also flush the crap out of the hogs
and remove some of the rust flake?


quote:The frames usually start to rust in the bottom frame plate, over and behind the rear wheel.

Thats where mine is. The rust got between the bottom plate and the
"hat" and popped the spot welds. I used "The Motivator" hammer and
beat on the frame causing a lot of rust to fall to the ground, the
car doesnt get driven, so this is YEARS of standing rust built up. I
just found that a friend of mine HAS a spot welder! Should I just
use the spot welder and reweld the bottom plate, or would it be best
to remove the plate and treat inside the "hat"? hmmmmm.


quote:The return line is not metered. I don't like electric pumps, but if you must, mount it at the rear and wire it with a oil pressure safety switch because Avanti's burn nicely.

Yah .. takes about 5 minutes to burn to the ground huh? I dont like
mechanical pumps, the tend to always leak, and they also can leak in
to the engine, and cause an explosive situation! I was thinking about
having a fuel tank made, with an intank pump and baffles, eventually.
The original tank started leaking on me YEARS ago, and was pouring a
decent amount of fuel down the rear seat and pooling in the back seat
foot wells - not a good situation. I had the tank repaired locally,
but I just dont trust it. I would like an aluminum or plastic tank.
The stock mechanical pump is leaking what looks to be fuel, but its
anyones guess, could be oil, or water .. the car leaks just about all
the fluids (except brake with the Mustang parts). I am most concerned
about the fuel leaks obviously, which is why I would like an electric
pump, when I switched the Hawk over, it never leaked fuel again. I had
the pump mounted up front, but below the tank height. I was thinking
about doing that again, was curious what others have done. I dont
like that the stock tank has a gravity fed line out the bottom, I feel
that this is quite dangerous. I would like to at the very least add
a pickup tube into the top, but then we are back to an intank pump.

Tom

N8N
06-03-2006, 06:01 AM
IF you have a friend with a spot welder I would just buy new lower plates and redo it. You can probably do a near-factory looking job and will be happier having cleaned up inside the frame hat (or at least I would be)

Do you have pics of your return line setup? I have seen pics of this before but don't remember where; my parts book only recognizes the return line coming off the fuel filter. I don't have the special fuel filter, so...

nate

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Mike
06-03-2006, 10:45 AM
There's a picture of all the fittings on the early Avanti fuel pump in the Avanti Shop Manual. It's only about 1 1/2" square, and pretty dark; but you can see the return line clearly. The fittings look like standard parts, but I've been told repeatedly that there is a restriction in the return line.
I can verify that the sediment bowl, used on Lark/Hawk "R" engines, and '64 Avantis, has a restriction where the elbow for the return screws in. It's about .040". Being so small, I doubt enough fuel flows into the return line to provide useful cooling to the pump or lines. It would relieve pressure when the engine is shut off; and prevent some flooding when parked hot.
Since it's higher up in the car, the sediment bowl return is more likely to collect any vapor bubbles and, hopefully, return them to the tank.
Mike M.

sbca96
08-21-2006, 08:09 PM
OK .. so does the fitting I am missing have a restriction hole or is
it a standard parts house hose nipple?? I cant imagine that I threw
it out, but I have not been able to find it. Again, this is the hose
nipple that comes out of the fitting on the fuel pump that the return
line hooks too.

Thanks!

Tom

bige
08-21-2006, 08:52 PM
Re: the hog troughs. While I had my car completely apart I took a hole saw and made three holes in the floor just above the troughs. Then I took my shop vac and took out all the flakes. Using 1/2" heater hose with a foam brush on the end I slathered POR15 in there. Once it was dry I coated them with Eastwoods rustproofing. Sealed the holes with the right size rubber plugs and the carpet hides everything. Subsequent maintenance and inspection is easy.

There were some good sized flakes of rust in there but it's been at least 6 years since I treated them and they have not deteriorated.

Ernie

R2 R5388

N8N
08-21-2006, 08:53 PM
Check your parts engine, didn't I see one of those on there? :)

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

JDP
08-21-2006, 09:26 PM
N8, he has a early Avanti with the return off the pump, not the filter. It does in fact have a restriction and is plumbed off a T on the inlet side of the pump.

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JDP
08-21-2006, 09:26 PM
Correction: Off the outlet side.

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Arnold Md.
64 Daytona HT
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63 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
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62 GT(parts car)
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41 Frank
08-21-2006, 10:26 PM
I did an Avanti and when I got to the fuel system I called Thibault and he said those fittings are not available and if my memory serves me right he said it needs about a 0.50 hole in the return fitting for a restriction. I just just soldered a fitting shut and drilled a 0.50 thousands hole in it to restrict it and everything works fine.

sbca96
08-22-2006, 01:45 AM
41 Frank .. you have a part number or remember where you got the hose
nipple from? I stoped by NAPA and theirs looked a little short.

Tom

41 Frank
08-22-2006, 09:55 AM
sbca96
I got the fitting out of a bunch of stuff I had around here, sorry, I don't have the car here so I can't look to see what it looks like.

sbca96
08-23-2006, 01:53 PM
41Frank

Do you remember if it was a straight fitting, or an 90 degree angle??

Can anyone scan and post the picture of this setup from the manual?

Thanks!

Tom

41 Frank
08-23-2006, 02:18 PM
sbca96

All I remember is that it is an off the shelf item, nothing special about it. I can find out this weekend if you want. I would be able to go look at the car this weekend,the guy that owns it is in CA. on business this week. Let me know. Seems like it was 90 degree but not sure.

JDP
08-23-2006, 02:30 PM
It's a 90 degree with a tiny, restricted hole.

http://stude.com/sig.jpg
Studebaker On The Net
http://stude.com
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Arnold Md.
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
63 GT Hawk
63 Avanti R1/AC
63 Avanti R2/4 speed
63 Daytona HT
63 Lark 2 dr.
62 Lark 2 door
62 GT(parts car)
60 Lark convert
60 Hawk
52 Starliner
51 Commander

41 Frank
08-23-2006, 02:36 PM
The fitting that is shown in my Avanti workshop manual shows what is commonly referred to as a street T which is a three sided fitting, one side would be male 1/8th pipe tread I believe and the other two sides female 1/8th pipe, you screw the restricted 90 degree hose nipple into the end directly opposite the male part which screws into the pump body the remaining opening needs a fitting nipple into which your pump to carb line goes. The ultimate goal is to just circulate enough fuel to keep it cool and prevent vapor lock. Remember you need to restrict the hose nipple.

sbca96
08-23-2006, 04:48 PM
OK, I have the "T" still, I had just removed the return nipple when I
found that the return line was leaking fuel (an Avantis worst enemy).
I used a plug in the female thread opposite of the male that screws
in the fuel pump. The other female thread has a pipe to flare adapter
that the flared line to the carb screws into. I REALLY wish I could
remember WHERE I put that angle, maybe now that I know its a 90 degree
I might have a better chance of spotting it. I KNOW I didnt throw it
away, I would have put it somewhere to NOT lose it. Maybe one of the
garage gremlins took it?? DAMN THEM!![xx(][V]

Tom

41 Frank
08-23-2006, 05:04 PM
Maybe if you leave everything alone this evening by morning they (the garage gremlins) will have mercy and decide you have been tormented enough and put it back in plain view.

mtdoraford
08-24-2006, 08:14 PM
Replacing the rubber seals arond the side windows is not that bad. The Hog Troughs is a tough job and you need to be a pretty good body man. I have my Avanti body off the frame and the hog T's were a job. If you can afford it, get a professional to do the hog T's. Don't let me scare you, but my Avanti had all kinds of rust. I did not start out to do a frame off restoration, but each rusted nut and bolt led to another rusted frame part. These cars were not well protected from the rust. For a fiberglass car, I've never seen so much rust. But, these are one of a kind cars and there is not another 50's/60's model like them. You gotta want an Avanti, to put up with all rust/leaks expensive parts etc., they are one of a kind.