Engine: Can't find oversized lifters for the Champion. What to do for future builds?

[PackardV8]

I have confirmed from Studebaker International, Fairborn Studebaker, Studebaker North and the wholesale supply house that the #536649 .005" lifters for the Champion are NLA. Any likely sources I've overlooked?

Every Champion engine I've ever pulled down had severely worn lifter bores and needed oversized lifters. FWIW, I had lunch with a 99-year-old Studebaker dealer employee. He confirmed it was a well-known problem in the 1950s, but the Champion was considered a disposable car in those days, so Studebaker never did an engineering change to prevent the wear.

Wondering what others do, I asked around. One well-known Stude builder said, "Most owners only want to know 'How cheap can you do it?' so I just put the worn lifters back in the worn bores and put a restrictor in the lifter oil supply. That was the CASO fix back in the day."

Because that's not how I want to build engines, I'm looking into having a custom reamer made up to cut the lifter bores oversize and press in bronze bushings. It's a more expensive procedure than most CASOs want to undertake.

I looked into building up the worn lifters with hard chrome and centerless grinding them to the .005" oversize, but that's a relatively expensive operation also.

Any other suggestions?

jack vines

[studeluvr]

I have confirmed from Studebaker International, Fairborn Studebaker, Studebaker North and the wholesale supply house that the #536649 .005" lifters for the Champion are NLA. Any likely sources I've overlooked?

Every Champion engine I've ever pulled down had severely worn lifter bores and needed oversized lifters. FWIW, I had lunch with a 99-year-old Studebaker dealer employee. He confirmed it was a well-known problem in the 1950s, but the Champion was considered a disposable car in those days, so Studebaker never did an engineering change to prevent the wear.

Wondering what others do, I asked around. One well-known Stude builder said, "Most owners only want to know 'How cheap can you do it?' so I just put the worn lifters back in the worn bores and put a restrictor in the lifter oil supply. That was the CASO fix back in the day."

Because that's not how I want to build engines, I'm looking into having a custom reamer made up to cut the lifter bores oversize and press in bronze bushings. It's a more expensive procedure than most CASOs want to undertake.

I looked into building up the worn lifters with hard chrome and centerless grinding them to the .005" oversize, but that's a relatively expensive operation also.

Any other suggestions?

jack vines

Back in the day I would Flame spray and Plasma spray aircraft parts. Had I known then what I know now I would have tried this process on the lifters. I might be costly I don't know I was working for the Government. We sprayed bearing surfaces with titanium, ceramics, nickel, aluminum bronze I bet it would work.

[karterfred88]

Jack-I'd stay away from bronze for bushings. I think the side loads on those lifters will wear them quickly. Spray weld, on lifter, or hard chrome sounds better, once those lifter bores are made bigger you'll need to find something hard enough to press in the bores that won't wear easily, I think the lifter itself is the better area to build up, and more tolerant of a mistake-can be done again if need be easier than the block.

[BRUCESTUDE]

Maybe if you go the bushing route, you can recoup some of the cost by doing this service for others. As these motors age and parts disappear, there is a need for more extensive machine work.

[PackardV8]

Jack-I'd stay away from bronze for bushings. I think the side loads on those lifters will wear them quickly. Spray weld, on lifter, or hard chrome sounds better, once those lifter bores are made bigger you'll need to find something hard enough to press in the bores that won't wear easily, I think the lifter itself is the better area to build up, and more tolerant of a mistake-can be done again if need be easier than the block.

Fred, it's common practice for race V8 blocks to use bronze lifter bore bushings and those lifters experience three times greater side load from spring pressure as do the Stude lifters.



The real question is will Champion owners pay for bronze bushings or hard chrome lifters? Neither are cheap.

jack vines

[r1lark]

Jack, did you ever find the oversize lifters? I think I may have some, let me know via a Private Message if you are still interested in some.

[thunderations]

This is part of the restoration hobby. Parts become rare or unobtainable, thus the price of restoration increases. Many parts have been reproduced, but those parts are usually high demand, easily sold.
My questions would be: Is there other available lifters that would work by over boring the block? Could there be a price reduction on having old lifters repaired if you did a large quantity at a time? There must be a bunch of old warn lifters around somewhere.
If neither of the above works, the cost of bushings for the block and the machine work becomes the standard. Choices are few.

[wittsend]

Is there any possibility there is a currently available lifter that is somewhat larger and would work in a reamed bore? If I recall correctly I believe that is done on the Mopar engines with AMC lifters. Not only does it help with lifter bore issues, but it also slightly increases cam duration due to the lifter catching the ramp a bit longer. Depending on the lifter height you may need different push rods but I'd think they would be cheaper that the other method proposed.

[studebaker champ]

where do you find the push rods in a champion engine?

[JoeHall]

I would think simply re-using the worn lifters would suffice for most Stude six cylinders being rebuilt. Considering about 99 percent of them will never see more than a few thousand miles in the next century.

[52-fan]

where do you find the push rods in a champion engine?

I guess you are referring to the previous post. A flat head engine, like the Champion, doesn't need push rods. The valve stem is directly above the lifter adjustment screw.

[studebaker champ]

that was my point. L.O.L.

[PackardV8]

I would think simply re-using the worn lifters would suffice for most Stude six cylinders being rebuilt. Considering about 99 percent of them will never see more than a few thousand miles in the next century.

Joe, the Champion lifter bores suffer the same problem as Packard V8 oil pumps. The designer just didn't put enough iron there to resist the wear forces. As with the Packard V8, the wear decreases oil pressure to the detriment of the rest of the engine. If a restrictor is not added, the extra clearance allows oil to flood into the tappet chamber and is sucked up the intake guides and that's why Champions have the reputation as oil burners.

My questions would be: Is there other available lifters that would work by over boring the block? Could there be a price reduction on having old lifters repaired if you did a large quantity at a time? There must be a bunch of old warn lifters around somewhere.

Is there any possibility there is a currently available lifter that is somewhat larger and would work in a reamed bore?

While alternatives may exist, seventy-five years of CASOs have not found any.

jack vines

[wittsend]

I plead ignorance on the Champion engine being a flathead. My mind was more focused on an oversize lifter replacement and an application (OHV) where I had heard of such a method. My apology.

[63t-cab]

Ok maybe I'm dense . all this talk about making the V8s better for one reason or another.better performance,better gas mileage,more reliable using brand X parts and doing extensive machine work " BTY I think is cool"! but then a Champion powered Car Owner won't spend to bring this engine up to typical healthy standards.having a dependable Studebaker is having a dependable Studebaker,no matter what's under the hood. I wouldn't want My six cylinder running any more like a Pig than My V8, just don't see the reasoning here

Fred, it's common practice for race V8 blocks to use bronze lifter bore bushings and those lifters experience three times greater side load from spring pressure as do the Stude lifters.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]50088[/ATTACH]

The real question is will Champion owners pay for bronze bushings or hard chrome lifters? Neither are cheap.

jack vines