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View Full Version : Fuel System: R2 Carb Accelerator Pump Seal



karterfred88
06-14-2015, 09:58 AM
I re- rebuilt this original AFB 2 years ago, and have been re-jetting it over and over to lean it down so my eyes don't hurt at idle. The first time I took it apart, it had just been rebuilt by someone--nice and shiny clean. But wouldn't run, as it was pouring fuel into the manifold. Taking it apart I discovered that some one must have pulled the top off and put it back on with the rods still in the upper cover and bent the rod tips, jamming them into the bowl bottom-missing the jets completey. Since the original fat metering rods are NLA I've had to change both rods and jets with Edelbrocks trying to get close to original mixture, It really hasn't seen any road miles as I've had so many other issues with power steering, brakes, electrical, new fuel lines etc. I'm just about done, so I can drive it, but yesterday after getting it down off jack stands, I started it and-- all of a sudden- it's pushing fuel up around the accelerator pump stem. Didn't do it the day before!! I have another from SI sitting in a box to put on, but is this a normal lifespan? Is there another source of these seals from a different gasket company than SI uses? This seems like a very short lifespan--no miles and two years of intermittent running. Anyone else had this problem or found a long term fix? Carb is coming back apart today, I would like to get a spare in case this one goes just as quickly.

59r2
06-14-2015, 10:23 AM
I can't believe you and I just posted a similar rhread minutes apart.
I will be most interested in any answers.
The new seal I have coming is from SI but I will not put it in til we get some answers to our threads

karterfred88
06-14-2015, 11:03 AM
I can't believe you and I just posted a similar rhread minutes apart.
I will be most interested in any answers.
The new seal I have coming is from SI but I will not put it in til we get some answers to our threads
Maybe it's our gas--NJ--DE, special rubber eating solvents!!!???

bezhawk
06-14-2015, 03:10 PM
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1471/overview/
Use this seal, but the pump itself wont fit.

karterfred88
06-14-2015, 04:16 PM
I'll give it a try--but Autozone sells it for $17.99-. Love Summit but price not always the best.
Opps-had it for $17.99 now $26.99--Yikes the part prices are changing as I look----!!!!!

TWChamp
06-14-2015, 05:50 PM
"I re- rebuilt this original AFB 2 years ago, and have been re-jetting it over and over to lean it down so my eyes don't hurt at idle."

I usually find when an engine has a vacuum leak or the carb is too lean is when my eyes water from the bad exhaust.

Bud
06-15-2015, 08:43 AM
I've been getting my carburetor parts from Allstate Carburetors in New York. They have good parts at a decent price. Their website is www.allcarbs.com. Bud

karterfred88
06-15-2015, 10:26 AM
"I re- rebuilt this original AFB 2 years ago, and have been re-jetting it over and over to lean it down so my eyes don't hurt at idle."

I usually find when an engine has a vacuum leak or the carb is too lean is when my eyes water from the bad exhaust.
Actually, engine runs smoother and cleaner with a vacuum leak induced, by removing the throttle kicker hose. Problem to start with, was who ever rebuilt it originally, before whoever bent the metering rods, put it back together with the rods from a different application, way too thin for the OEM jets which were correct. But not being able to match the OEM rods anymore, I've had to go with Edelbrock rods and jets and it has taken me awhile to figure out the right combo for the high vacuum step to lean it enough. Of course to add to my confusion, I didn't initially realize that part of the problem was the brake fluid being sucked in through the booster from the master cylinder that went bad while sitting in the garage. Now it's under control but I'm finessing it to get it so it doesn't spit out new carbon soot from the exhaust. I'm on my third set of new plugs, all black soot covered. I'm sure when I get it on the road it will be spitting soot out the exhaust for awhile. This car has been a bag of worms since I got it but I'm finally getting to the point it can be driven safely, and get registered. But on the bright side it does have 170 lbs of compression in every cylinder!!

doofus
06-15-2015, 10:27 AM
I run a re-jetted 750 cfm AFB clone on my turbocharged 62 lark Daytona. if fuel is coming out around pump stem your carb is flooding period. i use no seal at all, i depend on turbo to push enough extra air through carb so i wont miss the bit that leaks out pump stem under boost. i use r-2 carb hat and have only fuel stains around pump stem. it's a daily driver and will boil carb dry setting in hot weather but doesnt vapor lock. a rich condition at idle and low speed is a good thing, it gives you an excuse to "Blow The Soot OUT " often which i do dutifully! Good Luck, Doofus

karterfred88
06-15-2015, 10:39 AM
I've been getting my carburetor parts from Allstate Carburetors in New York. They have good parts at a decent price. Their website is www.allcarbs.com. Bud
Yes I have gotten parts from them, but not a carb kit, just new rod pistons and hair springs and choke cap hold downs (all of which were missing or damaged when I first put it together. But they didn't have the rods I needed either. As I have several kits already I didn't think I would need yet another!! Didn't expect to see the accelerator pump shaft starting to leak so soon, even before I've put any miles on it!

59r2
06-15-2015, 10:52 AM
Fred
Just got off phone with dave tbo he thinks it is the seals on the accel. pump .DON'T put the SI seal in a CLONE carb it won't fit.
He says he now puts two o-ring under the brass washer .
I haven't taken mine apart yet to see what he is talking about O-rings (my accel seal from SI is due today so I won't need that)
I'll let you know how I make out.Will be pulling mine apart tonite hopefully
Joe

rkapteyn
06-15-2015, 11:15 AM
If you can give the part numbers you need I can check.
I have a huge stock of carburetor parts but it is inventoried by Studebaker part numbers,but I have a number of items with Carter numbers

http://www.studebakerstore.com/Studebakerstore.com/Welcome.html

bezhawk
06-15-2015, 12:23 PM
http://www.carburetor-parts.com/

Mikes can/will MAKE any size jet or metering rod your little heart desires!

karterfred88
06-15-2015, 01:36 PM
I ordered the EDL seal per Bez's suggestion, I'm pulling it apart today to check the inlet needle to see if the Viton tip may have bit the dust and the floats letting in too much fuel. Since the car had been sitting with the front end up and running ok, and it didn't start till it was back on all four wheels, the floats are now at a different angle, so maybe didn't get the fuel flow stopped and that may be causing the "overflow". But might put those O-rings in anyway till the EDL seal shows up.

karterfred88
06-15-2015, 01:47 PM
http://www.carburetor-parts.com/

Mikes can/will MAKE any size jet or metering rod your little heart desires!
Two years ago I was quoted $114.00 pair of rods--Edelbrock rods from summit were about $12.00--so I chose to try jet/rods from the E carb. Looking back the $114.00 may have been the wiser move but money was tight then for my hobby car. I'm in it $48.00 on different rod and jet combos so far, just put in one step leaner jets for the rods I have--we'll see what happens. Now if I can just keep the inlet needles working!!

PackardV8
06-15-2015, 01:57 PM
I've got a box full of NOS metering rods. What Carter/Edelbrock numbers do we need for R1 and for R2?

jack vines

bezhawk
06-15-2015, 03:31 PM
Two years ago I was quoted $114.00 pair of rods--Edelbrock rods from summit were about $12.00--so I chose to try jet/rods from the E carb. Looking back the $114.00 may have been the wiser move but money was tight then for my hobby car. I'm in it $48.00 on different rod and jet combos so far, just put in one step leaner jets for the rods I have--we'll see what happens. Now if I can just keep the inlet needles working!!
You must have misunderstood.....mine were $14.....not $114!!! Prices are listed in his website!

karterfred88
06-15-2015, 04:06 PM
I've got a box full of NOS metering rods. What Carter/Edelbrock numbers do we need for R1 and for R2?

jack vines
This is an R2 3507S, main jet: stude number 1549222 carter 120-162, which I still have, was in carb - numbers matched to carter number. The original rod which was missing and the damaged rods installed had wrong number. The standard per the manual were 1560338, 16-263, one lean 1559460, 16-237, two lean 1559461, 16-238U. I don't have the actual dimensions of the rods but the carter numbers should be stamped on the rods. All I know after speaking to two carter experts who had a chart available showing the dimensions, was that nobody else used this particular rod/jet except Stude. The one who had all the original Carter tooling to make the rods said the jet/rod spec measures .10389 the rod 16-263 should be .076-.049, therefore the leaner rods have to be bigger. I tried using Edelbrock 1459 which are real close to the base rod at .075-.047 but that was too rich. As that's the biggest they make, so changed the jet to a .101 and now to a .098 hoping to be close to the original, just mixing and matching and hoping to get it right.

bezhawk
06-15-2015, 04:28 PM
Yes, for a stock baseline R2 I start at the Seventy 4-fourty seven rods, and .O nine eight jets. .O nine five secondary jets.....four inches Hg metering springs [orange Edelbrock]

karterfred88
06-15-2015, 04:37 PM
You must have misunderstood.....mine were $14.....not $114!!! Prices are listed in his website!
You are right, but he doesn't have the original carter rods either, they are just the Edelbrock ones, I didn't see where he would make any to order, The quote for the $114.00 was from: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/PartsCarter.htm He's the one who reproduces them with the original tooling.
I haven't even started with the springs yet, left the original springs in there till I at least get the idle mixture decent. Per your numbers my jets I just put in should bring me close, now if I could just get some non-alcohol gas to work with I'd be happy (none in the state of DE and closest MD one is half a tank away1).

63 R2 Hawk
06-15-2015, 07:37 PM
Any small airports near where you are in Delaware? I have no problem getting 100LL avgas here, a lot cheaper than racing gas and my Hawk seems to like it. Or maybe try a marina or boat repair shop, they must know a source for non-contaminated gas....

karterfred88
06-15-2015, 08:18 PM
Any small airports near where you are in Delaware? I have no problem getting 100LL avgas here, a lot cheaper than racing gas and my Hawk seems to like it. Or maybe try a marina or boat repair shop, they must know a source for non-contaminated gas....
I can get 89 octane at the dock only, no carry out no 93+. I'll have to check the local private plane airfield, most don't put gas in containers, only directly into aircraft, but I'll ask--can't hurt. DE is the only state on the east coast with absolutely no alcohol free fuel at any gas station. Race gas is unaffordable at 10-14 MPG, and only one shop within 25 miles carries leaded no alcohol Sonoco Standard 110, rest all have high octane "oxygenated" fuels only. Maybe I'll have to put in some dished pistons and drop down to 8 MPG !!!